How humans are not physically created to eat meat

[Bum Grasshopper]

What is abnormal in old human times, is the consumption of grains, this didn't happen until agriculture and stationary societies were created. what do most vegetarians eat an abundance of? Grains.

 

 

The first crops ever cultivated in recorded history was barley by the Sumerians. The primary purpose of said grain was for the making of BEER!

[Tactile]

For criticism against the China study and Dr Campbell, you might want to read this..

 

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

 

I think I'm gonna stick to my morning omelette.

[Quan Xie]

Humans are not physically created to kill either, and look at us.

 

Please explain this statement, I think it is very far from the truth.

Is it your idea or have you been taught this?

[soundhunter]

Humans are not physically created to kill either, and look at us.

 

created? by who?

[Jedi777]

Jedi777, You're well meaning, but the information you provided is quite wrong.

 

Digestive Tract.

http://paleodiet.com/comparison.html

 

Myths And Truths.

http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html

 

The Blood Moon.http://www.westonaprice.org/healthissues/bloodmoon.html

 

Real History.

http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html

 

Weston.A.Price

http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/features/price.html

 

Weston.A.Price Foundation.org

http://www.westonaprice.org/splash_2.htm

Taobums Archive.

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=5687&hl=

sorry but you are wrong friend the price info is disinfo and silly

 

For criticism against the China study and Dr Campbell, you might want to read this..

 

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

 

I think I'm gonna stick to my morning omelette.

so much disinfo LOL go ahead and eat your heart out

people can eat what they like but being misinformed is harmful

[teopakees]

How do vegetarians who have type 1 diabetes and are insulin dependent cope since,as afar as I know,-most- insulin is still taken from animals; mostly cows and pigs? Insulin from pigs is the closest to human's. By the way pigs sweat through pores which the article did not mention.

Recombinant DNA technology has made possible synthetic human insulin but I don't think it's use is wide spread.

[mantis]

sorry but you are wrong friend the price info is disinfo and silly

so much disinfo LOL go ahead and eat your heart out

people can eat what they like but being misinformed is harmful

 

so you're saying a guy who traveled around the world studying cultures & their diets is "disinfo" and "silly" but some long winded article that is extremely biased and has many unfounded ideas & views must be accurate, right?

 

if you want to keep diabetes in check go on a ketogenic diet and drop carbohydrates. i've gone 3 months monday-friday eating well over 100g of fat with little to no carbs and did not suffer health wise.

 

it is possible and it IS healthy.

 

you may argue "we don't have claws" or "we don't have reptile eyes" well those are both dandy & OK because our weapon is the ability to think. i have yet to find an animal that has lived after having a confrontation with an armed hunter.

Edited January 10, 2009 by mantis

[Hugo_M]

Hello

 

Maybe the question is can a child since he is born live all his live whiteout eating anything that have to do whit animals like meat eggs milk etc?

 

Bye, bye...

 

http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=SMQK4449qAI&...feature=related

 

[xakarii]

so you're saying a guy who traveled around the world studying cultures & their diets is "disinfo" and "silly" but some long winded article that is extremely biased and has many unfounded ideas & views must be accurate, right?

 

They're both silly and biased in my opinion.

 

Some can live on next to nothing, others can eat everything in sight.

 

Takeru Kobayashi tears it up.

 

Either he's fit AND bulimic or Takeru knows something we don't.

Edited January 10, 2009 by xakarii

[dwai]

It is about the Energy, not about biology.

Meat produces sloth (in Sanskrit, termed Tamas or inertia). That's why it is considered not good for people who want to progress spiritually.

 

But not everyone's goal in life is for spiritual succor (though it should be). So, a balanced meal is probably okay.

Like my teacher tells us --

 

"Not too much...Not too little"

 

Moderation is the keyword. Some people need the grounding...Meat does that (due to it's tamasic nature). It is very necessary to go by Ayurvedic or TCM principles (because modern western medicine is infantile in many aspects, despite all it's technological advances -- because it lacks the knowledge of Chi).

[宁]

I remember a (stupid) joke:

if vegetarian diet was a precursory to spiritual life,

all the sheep would be enlightened...

 

That aside, I think someway on the path, there comes a day when you can't find meat that palatable, and at least you tend to reduce it from your diet. It's something your body has to arrive to, not forced upon...

 

L1

[Yoda]

If you are interested in what science has to say turn to the China Study and not what a dentist in the 1930s came up with.

 

Science can't prove that smoking or eating meat is hard on one's health, but can offer correlations which we are free to take to heart or not. Just keep in mind that correlation isn't causation... some say it's b/c meat isn't grass fed anymore.

 

I think the issue of whether eating meat is helpful or harmful to one's spiritual practice is a different topic altogether and likely dependent on one's lineage.

[Smile]

 

created? by who?

Jesus, of course. Or aliens. Can't decide today.

[soundhunter]

I remember a (stupid) joke:

if vegetarian diet was a precursory to spiritual life,

all the sheep would be enlightened...

 

Perhaps they are

 

This is my favorite dumb quote sorta relevant to this:

 

Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing.

- Redd Foxx

[Tactile]

sorry but you are wrong friend the price info is disinfo and silly

so much disinfo LOL go ahead and eat your heart out

people can eat what they like but being misinformed is harmful

 

We all choose what to believe. I find Dr Campbell's argument "Every ounce of animal protein you bring in to your body is harmful" very hard to believe with all the contradicting evidence around. And the same regarding saturated fat. Also, never mind all the people who switch to low-carb/paleo diet and find their health improving dramatically. I'm not saying that people should eat meat (I don't eat it myself much), but animal products do have a critical place in a healthy diet at least in my experience.

 

Regarding the above link, in my opinion Chris Masterton has valid points. Did you actually read the debate between them? At least I found Dr. Campbells arguments quite weak and CM adresses all the specific points in his reply..

[super80]

As I mentioned earlier, I have been vegan in the past as well as a meat eater. My reasons for being vegan were not to jump on some preachy ethical bandwagon as most meat eaters would suspect, it was purely a personal health experiment. In MY case, I felt much healthier and had more strength. After returning to eating meat for some time (and again feeling weak and getting sick often), I recently switched to a vegan+fish diet and have been feeling healthier as a result. The addition of fish like salmon, sardines and cod has made a beneficial impact. I don't however obsess about the diet, if I happen to consume cheese once in a rare while, not a problem. I personally have found that dairy negatively effects my health more so than meat consumption. I also concur that humans are omnivores, not strictly carnivores or herbivores. There has been considerable research done in this regard to show that early man was a scavenger more than anything.

 

It still boils down to what works for the individual. I never preach my diet to anyone else since it may not work for them the way it works for me and vice versa.

 

 

My last 2.1 cents on this topic

 

1) There exists a giant sh**pile of supposed "scientific" info out there to support BOTH sides of this debate. Unfortunately it is difficult to know who is credible, full of sh*t, or is simply agenda driven. Yes, part of the vegan community does have an agenda. I won't deny that. However, if you understand and accept that much, than you have to also accept the fact that the meat and dairy industry have HUGE agenda. One based on a profitable industry. You can be sure they have their own "scientific" data.

A related thing that comes to mind is a recent commercial campaign launched by the corn industry suggesting that according to recent studies, high fructose corn syrup really isn't that bad at all for you in moderation. Yeah, OK

So what is moderation??? HFCS is in practically everything off a grocery store shelf..It's in bread, jarred sauces, etc..........

We have a diabetes epidemic in this country, so let's all add soda or ice pops to our diet. Yes, that makes perfect sense.

As far as the Weston Price Foundation and the China study, well once again both are biased and at times full of it. WP is based on outdated information and the China study also makes some crazy claims.

 

 

 

2) It is a widely accepted idea that there are no strong, healthy vegetarians. This is so preposterous I don't even know where to begin. Yes there are many scrawny, feeble looking people out there who claim to eat a veg diet. Technically, potato chips and soda is "vegan", doesn't mean it will improve one's health. Some of my friends took the time to research and experiment with their veg diets and are in better physical shape than most anyone I know. Many of them are very strong, and regularly take part in competitions like "Iron man" every year. So let's put this generalization to rest.

 

 

Peace

[mYTHmAKER]

Yes there are many scrawny, feeble looking people out there who claim to eat a veg diet. Technically, potato chips and soda is "vegan", doesn't mean it will improve one's health. Some of my friends took the time to research and experiment with their veg diets and are in better physical shape than most anyone I know. Many of them are very strong, and regularly take part in competitions like "Iron man" every year. So let's put this generalization to rest.

Peace

 

Don't forget about the scrawny to obese unhealthy flesh eaters.

I guess they don't count them in the studies

 

Jesus, of course. Or aliens. Can't decide today.

 

The Little Green People silly

[mantis]

if you got two average males, put one on a vegetarian diet and the other on a flesh diet, there is no doubt on my mind that the flesh eater will have a much better physique. is it possible to do it? that is, build a physique being vegetarian, sure, why not. but is it worth the hassle? not really. as for the "look at all the unhealthy flesh eaters" argument, that is simply because there are more people who eat flesh than people who don't; only 4 to 10% of americans are "vegetarian."

 

2) It is a widely accepted idea that there are no strong, healthy vegetarians. This is so preposterous I don't even know where to begin. Yes there are many scrawny, feeble looking people out there who claim to eat a veg diet. Technically, potato chips and soda is "vegan", doesn't mean it will improve one's health. Some of my friends took the time to research and experiment with their veg diets and are in better physical shape than most anyone I know. Many of them are very strong, and regularly take part in competitions like "Iron man" every year. So let's put this generalization to rest.

Peace

 

at the level of iron man competitions it's more about getting calories in as steroids have already come into play at that level. if you could back this up though i'd be interested in seeing your vegetarian "friends" videos or any photos he/she may have available.

Edited January 10, 2009 by mantis

[super80]

is it possible to do it? that is, build a physique being vegetarian, sure, why not. but is it worth the hassle? not really.

As far as it not being worth the hassle, well, that's purely your own opinion and I respect it. I personally don't find it to be a "hassle" at all. I place more importance on healthy mind, body and spirit-- my emphasis is not on attaining an aesthetically pleasing physique. A nice physique may be incidental to a healthy lifestyle however it is not everyone's primary goal. Also, what constitutes a nice physique is subjective.

 

 

as for the "look at all the unhealthy flesh eaters" argument, that is simply because there are more people who eat flesh than people who don't; only 4 to 10% of americans are "vegetarian."

I don't get the impression that comment was intended to be argumentative. It was just a contrasting view to "look at all the unhealthy vegetarians" . My opinion is that if a vegetarian is weak and unhealthy, then they are living in a way that is not conducive to good health for their body/blood type. But to infer that vegetarianism = weak/scrawny is simply not true.

 

To say that vegetarians are almost always weak and scrawny is like saying all meat eaters will need a triple bypass once they turn 40.

[RongzomFan]

If everyone models their diet on the chimpanzee, and maybe bump up the protein slighty for our increased brain size, that would be ideal

 

Chimpanzees eat something like 55% green leaves, 45% fruits, and the males sometimes eat some meat.

 

 

Moral of the story is too look at salads as the main dish, not a side dish

Edited January 10, 2009 by alwayson

[Franky]

I think we're omnivourous.

 

Most true vegitarian animals have completely flat teeth, except for tusked animals. Grazing animals lack an upper set of incisors.

Primate teeth are not as flat as those of grazing animals, but also not as jagged as those of carnivourous animals.

They're somewhere in the middle. Alot of herbivourous mammals have claws, like the panda or sloth, ect...

 

Raw meat is actually healthier than cooked meat, if it is from a healthy animal. When meat gets burned, the protien is less bioavaliable. Its the disiases and parasites that humans must worry about. Humans tend to have a weak immune system when it comes to natural occuring bacteria (the new bacteria thats adapted to our lifestyles is a different story).

 

Humans can't eat as many kinds of raw meat as carnivores, but we also can't eat as many kinds of wild plants as herbivores. (Scientists believe the appendix used to be for digesting low energy plant fiber like grass). But yeah, most poeple eat too much meat. anything in excess is bad for you.

[voidisyinyang]

The joke is found in martial arts movies -- how Taoists can eat meat but Buddhists can not. Yet in Buddhist Tibet traditionally meat was eaten at the start of the tummo training (to create great internal bodily heat). But the same tummo training in the original human culture -- the Bushmen -- relied on a VEGETARIAN diet, even though the Bushmen are hunters. So all the males had to be vegetarian to learn to be healers and the tummo in Tibet switches from meat to a food-free diet or next to no food, the bigu. The main issue with meat these days is omega 6 versus omega 3 -- cows don't eat corn in the wild and the soy fed to pigs and chickens is genetically engineered besides destroying the Amazon rainforest. But these problems, among many others (like antibiotics) started back with the ECLIPSE OF THE SUN by the moon in the Turkana pastoralist culture of Kenya -- this is probably the oldest form of religion known. When animals were domesticated the sacrifice of the animal at the eclipse of the sun was to help the SON against the female power of the moon, which is the source of the same electrochemical energy that creates the TUMMO or what the Bushmen call N/um. Religion relies on repression of the right-brain pineal gland lunar electrochemical energy. Happy full moon.

[chrisjswanson]

Jedi,

 

Interesting post, I'd tend to think that we might be able to eat a small amount of meat in a healthy way, but the reasons it is causing health problems and the like is a combination of excess and improper consumption, and other poor healthy living conditions and choices.

 

That said, I'm a vegan. My good friend Bert's a vegan too, and he wanted me to point out that even a vegan might disagree with your points. But he is a vegan, so he does agree totally with you about not having to eat meat.

 

peace+love

Chris

[Quan Xie]

Humans are not physically created to kill either, and look at us.

"from Smile"

 

Please explain this statement, I think it is very far from the truth.

Is it your idea or have you been taught this?

 

 

I am still waiting for a reply, please explain....

 

Thanks

Edited January 10, 2009 by Quan Xie

[gendao]

For criticism against the China study and Dr Campbell, you might want to read this..

 

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

 

I think I'm gonna stick to my morning omelette.

Wow, I did find this nugget interesting:

using AF as an initiator of cancer foci and the milk protein casein as the promoter protein of study

 

He found that adjusting the protein intake of the same rats could turn cancer promotion on and off as if with a switch,12 and found casein to have the same effect when other cancer initiators, such as the hepatitis B virus, were used.13 Rather than throwing a blanket accusation at all protein, Campbell acknowledged that the study of other proteins would be required before generalizing

 

generalization from the milk protein casein to all "nutrients from animal-based foods" is clearly unwarranted. If Campbell took caution to study the issue further before generalizing from casein to all proteins, why didn't he take the same caution before generalizing from casein to all animal proteins or all animal nutrients?

 

Indeed, in later pages of The China Study, Campbell acknowledges that he is making this generalization: ". . . casein, and very likely all animal proteins, may be the most relevant cancer-causing substances that we consume."16 Why this generalization is "very likely" to be true is left unexplained.

 

Campbell is aware that casein has been uniquely implicated in health problems, and dedicates an entire chapter of The China Study to casein's capacity to generate autoimmune diseases.17 Whey protein appears to have a protective effect against colon cancer that casein does not have.18 Any effect of casein, then, cannot be generalized to other milk proteins, let alone all animal proteins.

Casein (a primary dairy protein), functions as a switch to turn cancer and other diseases on.

 

And these cancers form around toxic foci like aflatoxin or the Hep B virus. This would support the basic theory that cancerous tumors are formed by our bodies to encase toxins...similar to how oysters form pearls to encase foreign particles. So, a long-range plan to prevent and fight cancer would be the regular disinfection and detoxing of our bodies to flush all those foreign toxins out before they get trapped (and then entomb-er-ed) in our tissues.