Organ Donation

[Uncle Screwtape]

In another discussion group, someone asked about Taoism and organ donation. The thought was that in Taoism it wouldn't matter; but I have an inkling that it does matter; not least of all because in Taoism, everything matters. But I really don't know.

 

Does anybody know what Taoism says about organ donation?

 

Screwtape

[Pietro]

In another discussion group, someone asked about Taoism and organ donation. The thought was that in Taoism it wouldn't matter; but I have an inkling that it does matter; not least of all because in Taoism, everything matters. But I really don't know.

 

Does anybody know what Taoism says about organ donation?

 

Screwtape

If we had a Pope we could ask him.

Since we have no Pope, we need to come out with an answer ourselves.

My guess would be that most people would consider that when you are donating an organ the shen of that organ gets transplanted as well. Now if you are a nice individual, if the other person is also a decent human being, if you have not fused all your shen into one, then it probably does not matter.

 

In any other case it probably dose.

 

As a personal note I would feel some problems in having my organs transplanted into someone who is not into some sort of cultivation.

Think of your organs as your kids, would you want them to go and live in aless then perfect situation. Often not, but how often do you have a choise. Beside the shen of the organ gets an extra occasion to live on, and this might be useful for it, or not.

 

It seem to be one of those situation where human discretion is needed, and there is no clear cut answer.

 

To use a worn phrase:

follow your heart

unless you are transplanting your heart,

in which case you cannot.

[Uncle Screwtape]

If we had a Pope we could ask him.

Since we have no Pope, we need to come out with an answer ourselves.

 

Thank you for your answer. But while there is no Taoist pope, there is plenty in the way of instruction based on deep knowledge and experience going back thousands of years. It usually has something to say about everything; so I was wondering.

[Riyue]

In another discussion group, someone asked about Taoism and organ donation. The thought was that in Taoism it wouldn't matter; but I have an inkling that it does matter; not least of all because in Taoism, everything matters. But I really don't know.

 

Does anybody know what Taoism says about organ donation?

 

Screwtape

for answering this question one has to know that the immune system has to be suppressed, only then the donated organ will survive in the foreign body. - This means the receiver has to live immunocompromised after. Would you call this going in line with nature?

...

[Pietro]

Thank you for your answer. But while there is no Taoist pope, there is plenty in the way of instruction based on deep knowledge and experience going back thousands of years. It usually has something to say about everything; so I was wondering.

 

And based of the part of the limited part of this deep knowledge that I had the luck to acquire I tried to answer you!

[Uncle Screwtape]

And based of the part of the limited part of this deep knowledge that I had the luck to acquire I tried to answer you!

 

And I am very grateful! It was actually helpful. I should have said that the first time.

 

 

 

I know that certain organs serve different functions in Taoism beyond the biological functions we know about. If anger is stored in a particular organ, for instance, would receiving organs from an angry person make you sick in other ways? That's the kind of thing I mean.

[Pietro]

...

I know that certain organs serve different functions in Taoism beyond the biological functions we know about. If anger is stored in a particular organ, for instance, would receiving organs from an angry person make you sick in other ways? That's the kind of thing I mean.

Yes, mostly they are being produced in various organs. So Anger is being produced by the Liver. Now I think the jury is out wether Anger is stored in the Liver. My experience is that emotions are produced in an organ, but are then stored pretty much everywhere. In fact tend to be stored where there is already a blockage. As a pipe that would not drain, when a channel is clogged, all sort of energy gets blocked there. And when you open the pipe sometimes the student/client/taoist will experience those emotions. So yes, you might have to digest emotions that were not produced by you. This does not scare me so much, as I think we do it pretty much all the time. What I find mre creepy is the idea that suddenly I start having new processes by which I produce those emotions.

 

Like the woman who got the organ of a guy and started to find exciting red hair busty women.

 

But at the end, if your only possibility to stay alive is organ transplant you might discover that it is actually not that bad. At least compared to the alternatives.

[Quan Xie]

In another discussion group, someone asked about Taoism and organ donation. The thought was that in Taoism it wouldn't matter; but I have an inkling that it does matter; not least of all because in Taoism, everything matters. But I really don't know.

 

Does anybody know what Taoism says about organ donation?

 

Screwtape

 

 

Organ donation would not be part of a Daoists actions, traditionally when you die the body is to be destroyed.

[billb]

for answering this question one has to know that the immune system has to be suppressed, only then the donated organ will survive in the foreign body. - This means the receiver has to live immunocompromised after. Would you call this going in line with nature?

...

I think many of us on a standard american diet also live "immunocompromised". The original Taoist writings were way before organ transpantation, so we can only speculate. But I think although it is not completely going in line with nature, the option is death. Alonzo Mourning won an NBA championship after recieving a kidney transplant, was in great shape and looked a lot less immunocompromised than some fat toad in a mall drinking milk shakes. Phil Lesh of the Grateful Dead recieved a liver transplant in 1996 and sounds great. He will be playing at Madison Square Garden this april, 44 years after the band first started, at a time when almost no one can fill this big arena anymore and I hope to see him play thanks to a liver transplant. It is not like these people are vegetables on life support. They are also starting to transplant some bone marrow from the donor and this eliminates the need for immunosuppressive drugs, but this is very new but very promising. So we may not need to suppress the immune system in the future. Obviously this is not completely going in line with nature, but is one of the few aspects of western medicine that I actually like.

[Aetherous]

If you look at the beginnings of Taoism in history, you see people attempting to manipulate things in order to prolong and improve their lives. Nowadays, some people look at the history of Taoism and see that someone along the line said "be natural" and they assume that means you shouldn't get an organ donation because it wouldn't be natural...but in my view that's totally the opposite of what someone should do.

 

It's natural to want to survive, and it's natural for people to come up with ways to transplant organs because of that desire.

 

It was natural for Taoists to come up with the ways of manipulating energy and consciousness to improve their health and increase their lifespan, for this very same reason.

 

Everything humans do is natural, just like everything that deer do is natural. Or like everything that storms do is natural.

[Riyue]

 

 

Everything humans do is natural, just like everything that deer do is natural. Or like everything that storms do is natural.

 

thats not what i am understand as natural..

humans can do a lot things which are against nature...

--

laozi did not try to manipulate natural qi

if you read ddj 10 / 25 you can see that he tried to get in line with nature

 

forcing qi - thats just the opposite of that laozi wanted to do...

 

the shen 神 of organs is a special qi resulting from its cells and its interaction with above and below and the qi of the whole body...

in the moment you are cutting it from its mother-body - you interrupt the interaction with the qi of this mother-body...

the special qi is stopped... changed ...

in the moment it is transplanted it goes in interaction with the new body and the special qi depending on the new body will constitute... it will be different of the shen in the old body...

after 7 years all cells of the old organ have been exchanged...

[Aetherous]

Very interesting take on it, and I agree (if I'm understanding you correctly).

 

But my point was that even doing that is manipulating the natural flow of things. Why do anything? It could be seen that everything we do is against nature, unless we just totally accept everything that happens to us.

[Bum Grasshopper]

The body is merely a vehicle for our spirit to navigate this world in. When we die, the "driver" has abandoned said vehicle. If someone can use the spare parts, I think that would be good. In the natural world, dead organisms are eaten by live organisms to survive. Transplants are a high tech way of doing the same.

[Uncle Screwtape]

Thank you all for your responses!

 

Just one thing: I personally see a difference between manipulating and forcing. If you narrow the channel of a slow-moving river you increase its speed and then you may harness its power to make clean electricity. I believe it is the same with chi. Harnessing it and forcing it are, I believe, two very different things.

[TTT]

Bruce Lipton, a quantum biologist says that every organ is receiving you. When you die

and someone takes one of your organs, he still receives you. Thus, your personality will be mixed

up a little bit with the other guy's. He says that it has nothing to do with DNA or whatsoever. That is why

for example if the dead guy liked strawberries or something, the donor-receiver suddenly gets a taste for strawberries as wel.

 

I remember he said that somewhere in the end of some of video's. I believe he said that in this video.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=63...+Meet+2of+2.avi

[Aetherous]

Just one thing: I personally see a difference between manipulating and forcing. If you narrow the channel of a slow-moving river you increase its speed and then you may harness its power to make clean electricity. I believe it is the same with chi. Harnessing it and forcing it are, I believe, two very different things.

 

Good point!

[ryansmith]

My brother is a healthy male with two functioning kidneys and is disussing donating them to someone in need, so he will live with only 1 working kidney. I'm just wondering what your guys throughts are on how this will affect him spirtiually, physically, etc...?

Edited December 28, 2009 by ryansmith

[Riyue]

My brother is a healthy male with two functioning kidneys and is disussing donating them to someone in need, so he will live with only 1 working kidney. I'm just wondering what your guys throughts are on how this will affect him spirtiually, physically, etc...?

 

i think that this is a very difficult question to answer...

the answer can only be a very personal one - matching with the actual situation...

...

here some points speaking for a donation...

 

it can be the practice of true love...

it gives the chance to overcome egoism..

it can give the chance for prolonging a partnership... a friendship ... relationship between relatives ... child - father / mother... brother - brother ... brother - sister... and so on

 

 

and there are points speaking against a donation...

 

it is impossible to tax the psychological pressure really...

a beloved person will die - if one doesn't help...

is it a sort of modern cannibalism... ?

nature has given us two kidneys... do we know why really? - can it be a sort of self-mutilation?

here can be a reason for big spiritual and physical problems..

daoists are seeing left and right as polarity necessary for complementing to a harmony...

 

transplantations are very expensive... the resources could rescue / help a lot of other persons...

there are horrible scenarios - persons donate for money, because they see it as a possibility to give themselves a chance for living.... - persons are forced to donate against their will ...

life after transplantation is limited ... some live relatively well ... some have a lot of problems - eventually more than before...