Celibate or not

[Pietro]

Sure about that? Maybe you could provide us with a link.

 

Pretty sure.

I can provide a link to my memory

it was in a paper that was photocopied by Mantak Chia staff and distributed at Tao Garden.

[sunshine]

Celibacy and semen retention...

 

one of those beautiful topics we can chew on for eons...

 

as with most other topics one will always find good "proof" for one argument

and good "proof" for the other...

 

I have started to view things in terms of tradition and hardly in any general manner.

 

If a tradition hands out a practice and says it is damaging to you to have sex...

I'd better be careful.

 

Sure. Try it out if you are up for negative consequences just to prove they are all wrong...

 

they are traditions who do not emphasize it same way, same manner...

 

To me one of the most horrible aspects of all this talk is the induction of guilt...

 

and if you feel guilty to have ejaculated THEN it FOR SURE is much more damaging

to you then just the ejaculation itself.

 

relax guys

 

with smiles

 

Harry

[wenwu]

just though i would chip in

 

 

to do it or not seems to be one of these questions that will go on for ever even thoguh we secretly all kinda know the answer, along with does size matter

 

for me the simple answer (i like simple answrs) is too much sex or wasting semen is bad. I have had a few signs of this like when i try to do bagua shortly after being with my gf, my legs were gone i could concentrate and just felt empty

 

also

 

after a night celebrating (i forget the reason) woke up made love to my gf at the time and felt a hangover develop that wasnt there before

 

even Ma Chuan Xu talks about avoidng sex when you are studying lower basin practices

 

 

however

 

in my humbke opinion, to completely abstain for intercousre is also a mistake, foucsing to much on not doing some thing that is fairly natural can cause you alot of stress, not having sex can also cause stress.

 

I think having sex or 'using' your semen wisely is the point i am trying to make. I ams ure we have all had the experince of sleeping with a woman who wasn't right for us, the time when i have done it i have at best felt exhausted (i guess this is no energy coming back to me from the girl in question) or at worst really dark and had to go for a long long walk after (i guess this is the wrong sort of energy coming back into me). equally i am sure we have all had experience having sex with a woman who was very right for you, afterward i feel invigorated and full of energy

 

so my adivce....... work smarter not harder

[thelerner]

Take also in mind all the coffee drinkers (90% of people in VS) They need to coffee to be alert and to get a good feeling. (caffeine+ dopamine increases) Afterwards, they take pills to get into sleep (I think 20% of the VS). Take also in mind all the antidepressant takers (I think 10% of people in the VS), which induces also a good feeling. I believe if you just cultivate your own energies and not waste it regularly, you don't need all this crap.

 

What?!? First no sex, now no coffee? What kind of world would you have us living in?

 

 

My ideal is throwing coffee into a hot bath, having sex in it and lying around it in caffenated bliss. Ahhh

 

 

[baloneyx]

Ok what if you make sure you somehow get those semen back in your system..... somehow.....?

[WestwardMonkey]

What?!? First no sex, now no coffee? What kind of world would you have us living in?

 

 

My ideal is throwing coffee into a hot bath, having sex in it and lying around it in caffenated bliss. Ahhh

 

 

 

Ok what if you make sure you somehow get those semen back in your system..... somehow.....?

 

[lino]

What?!? First no sex, now no coffee? What kind of world would you have us living in?

 

 

My ideal is throwing coffee into a hot bath, having sex in it and lying around it in caffenated bliss. Ahhh

 

make it a mochaccino, need to throw chocolate in there too

[WestwardMonkey]

Like I said I think it depends on the person and can it be done effortlessly. I can obstain longer than I use to be able to and my mind is not even focused on it. I think it is all in the thinking. Plus another reason I say effortlessly is this first we all know semen can sap your body of energy and vital nutrients but if it is not effortless it can be very unpleasant. And what I have noticed with people who live long lives over a hundred is that they are happy that is the one thing they all have in common. So if celibacy is not for you do not do it but if you feel happier living a celibate life then do it. The Tao is the way of heaven and heaven is found in the heart. Heaven is very large it permeates all things and connects all thing in that energy dance that is most effient no action anyone takes is wasted yin compliments yang yang compliments yin. Whether celibate or you practice a double cultivation we can all learn from one another. Appearing separate but acting as one. Ain't life grand.

[lino]

I have been trying many years to achieve celibacy whether I will keep to this path or enlighten to something else I don't know at this time all I know is what I have experienced.

 

I have tried resisting which made my mind want it more and weakened my minds memory but I never got sick from a cold.

 

I found ways to get my memory better through herbs I stumbled across, diet and learned how to retain semen though the huiyin cavity. Welcome back memory. I could resist longer the need for sex but I started getting colds and headaches unless it was after a really long space between the last time then there would bliss that lasted half the day or much longer. Now through these longer durations of resistance I had odd stuff happen sometimes with in the first 5 minutes of waking like some kind of figure was there in the room but then it would vanish slowly.

 

Resently I have tried 2 new herbs after reliezing the key element is in my mind I have to remove the under lying cause my thoughts which partly is a result of my bodies chemisty which worked really well but after extended use I get headaches my body temp drops and 1 of the herbs makes me depressed. So I am trying two other herb to counter act some effects of the first two which is showing promise but I have not found the right balance yet. I hope though herbs it can help my mind get closer to letting go of the need for sex but ultimately I think it will come from something more self reliant some understanding. Maybe celibacy is not the way for me maybe I am to attached to the idea of it.

 

I know some of the ways I go about this some would say your doing it all wrong but most of what I learned has been through trial and error I live in PA I know no Taoist masters here. Well not alive anyway. I read as much as I can from misc taoist classics like the Tao Te Ching and different translations of them and when I can not find it in them trial and error.

 

If any one has anything that can help me out, some technic, some insite or can just point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated.

 

For some people, like myself, it seems like a half-way decent measure of keeping the "voices" down in volume.

[WestwardMonkey]

For the celibate here is some advice I read in seven taoist masters which touches on this subject a few time in the story:

 

"How does one go about eradicating the desire for liquor and sex? The ancient sages offer this advice: If it is not proprietous, do not look at it. If it is not proprietous, do not do it. If it is in front of you, behave as if you saw nothing. The Buddhist teach: "Forget the other, forget oneself, forget everyone." The Taoists teach: "look but do not see it: hear but do not listen." [That is, if you are not attached to liquor or the sexual attraction, those things will lose their attractiveness. Attraction is not in the object itself but in the attitude that we carry around with us.] If you can do this, then you will have eradicated the desire for liquor and sex.

[WestwardMonkey]

Here another story based in the flow between opposites (same book):

 

"Years later, after Hu Hsiang-yang had attained enlightenment, he returned to teach and more than one hundred students. One day Hsiang-yang asked his students whether they had severed their attachments to worldly desires. All his students claimed to have done so. Hu Hsiang-yang then said to them, 'I shall give you a test. If you passthis test then I shall give you advanced instructions in internal alchemy. This is the test: each of you should take a plank of wood measuring four feet by two feet. Place it on your bed tonight and sleep beside it. Bring your plank with you when you report to me the next morning.' The students went away thinking that they would all pass such an easy test with flying colors. That night each student went to sleep lying beside a wooden plank. In the middle of the night, as each one turned toward the plank, he felt something warmand soft. Groping around, he felt the body of a naked young woman. The students' sexual fires were aroused at once, and their generative energy drained out of thier bodies. Each one's heart was full of desire for the body beside him, and even in sleep he embraced it.

" On awaking the next morning, the students saw that they were hugging the wooden planks. They sat up bewildered, but from outside the dormitory the teacher's bell was heard, summoning them to the instruction hall. The students hurriedly filed into the hall with thier planks. Hu Hsiang-yang ordered each of them to show him the wooden plank. The first student on the line was a man seventy-six years of age. Hu Hsiang- yang looked at him and said, 'At your age you still cling to sexual desires.' The old man said, 'sir, how do you know that I have not severed my ties to sexual craving?' Hu Hsiang-yang replied, 'Look at your plank. There are stains of your semen on it. Your sexual desires were roused when you felt a naked body next to you and with that your gererative energy was drained." The man hung his head in shame and walked to the back of the room. HuHsiang-yang then said, 'If there is anyone whose plank has no stain of sminal fluid on it, let him step up.' There was a long silence. The students did not dare to step forward, because when they examined their planks they found them to be stained with their involuntary emissions.

"Only one person in the middle of the line stepped forward to present his plank to the master. Hu Hsiang-yang said, 'The desire for sex is strong for the typical person. You seemed to have tamed this desire. How did you manage to do it?' The man replied, 'Sir, I learned abstinence by overexposure.' Hu Hsiang-yang said , 'How so?' The student said, 'Most people know that their desires will ultimately lead to harm. However, they do not acknowledge the danger until they tasted it. Once one has experienced the adverse consequences of sexual craving then one will avoid it like the plague. As time goes on, the body strengthens itself through abstinence, and the craving stops long after the fear is gone. When I was an adolescent I could not control my sexual craving. I frequented the borthels and lay with a women every night. As a result, after a few years my body was drained of energy and my mind was stripped of clarity. I almost died because I could not resist the temptation of sex. After that, I learned my lesson. I thought about my past experiences and saw that I had not really been happy when I was in the brothels.Ladies come and go. I made love to them, but I did not know who they were and they did not care who I was. This went on continually, just as day follows night, and I began to see the emptiness of sexual craving. Sir, I am no longer attached to sexual desire because I have experienced it, have suffered the consequences of my indulgence, and have seen the emptiness in the endless repetition of lovemaking.' Hu Hiang-yang nodded his head and said to him, 'You are the only student who is ready to recieve the advanced teachings. The rest of the people need more work in preparing their foundations.' It was said that the student received the transmission of the teachings of the Tao from Hu Hsiang-yang and eventually attained enlightenment."