Wuji Qigong and Wudang Hun Yuan Qigong

[ronp]

Hey bums

 

 

I am drawn to the Wuji Qigong from Master Duan Zhi-Liang.

 

 

Interested in the differences and/or similarities between Wuji Qigong and Wudang Hun Yuan Qigong?

 

 

Are they the same thing or?

 

 

Also would appreciate any recommendations as to DVDs about Wuji Qigong.

 

 

I have found the following:

 

Qigong for Beginners - Garripoli

 

 

Traditional Daoist Wuji Qigong - Jiang Jian-ye

 

 

Primordial Qigong - Michael Winn

 

 

Wuji Qigong - Daryll Mitchell

 

 

Qigong Wuji Style - Jeff Primack

 

 

Wuji Gong - Master Cheng Bingsong

 

 

Wu Dang Hun Yuan (Primordial) Qigong - Master Yun Xiang Tseng

 

 

 

Anyone seen any of the above?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Ron

[sheng zhen]

Hey bums

I am drawn to the Wuji Qigong from Master Duan Zhi-Liang.

Interested in the differences and/or similarities between Wuji Qigong and Wudang Hun Yuan Qigong?

Are they the same thing or?

Also would appreciate any recommendations as to DVDs about Wuji Qigong.

I have found the following:

 

Qigong for Beginners - Garripoli

Traditional Daoist Wuji Qigong - Jiang Jian-ye

Primordial Qigong - Michael Winn

Wuji Qigong - Daryll Mitchell

Qigong Wuji Style - Jeff Primack

Wuji Gong - Master Cheng Bingsong

Wu Dang Hun Yuan (Primordial) Qigong - Master Yun Xiang Tseng

Anyone seen any of the above?

Thanks,

 

Ron

From what I understand, Wuji and Hun Yuan are very common names on qigong practices. Wuji is the state we all want to return to, and hun yuan qi is the qi we all want. So probably every second qigong system created will be called something related to wuji or hunyuan.

[ronp]

From what I understand, Wuji and Hun Yuan are very common names on qigong practices. Wuji is the state we all want to return to, and hun yuan qi is the qi we all want. So probably every second qigong system created will be called something related to wuji or hunyuan.

 

 

Thanks sheng zhen for your definitions.

 

I am specifically interested in the Wuji qigong as originally developed by Zhang San Feng and taught by or introduced to the West by Master Duan Zhi-Liang.

From research I know that it is variously referred to as Wuji Qigong, Primordial Qigong, Wuji Hundun Qigong and (shudder) Qigong for Enlightenment.

 

I know that the Winn is from Master Duan but I understand the video quality and/or sound is poor. The Garripoli's is from Master Duan as well but maybe a bit new agey. Also Daryll Mitchells, Cheng Bingsongs and Jiang Jian-ye's are also from him.

 

And the Wudang Hun Yuan (Primodial) Qigong from Master Yun Xiang Tseng was developed by Master Zhang San Feng but may or may not be the same or different.

 

Two or three of these DVD's are a bit pricey at $50 so I am really looking for anyone that has seen or is familiar with the video DVD's and can recommend one over the other or not.

 

Sorry if i wasn't clear before.

 

Would definitely appreciate any feedback.

 

Be well,

 

Ron

[Ya Mu]

If I am thinking of the right Chinese teacher, probably the closest to Duan's qigong is going to be Garripoli's.

I took a workshop once with teacher Duan and he had Garripoli helping him.

 

If this is the same guy I am thinking of he was a hoot - smoked his pipe in between therapy sessions. Also one of those old Chinese men who tells you to hit them (while doing their best to look old and frail). One doesn't make that type of mistake twice. Not gonna tell you how I know.

 

Wuji will not be the same across the practitioners.

[Spirit Ape]

If you lived in Australia I could introduce you to my teacher or you could learn from myself the Hun Yuan Yi Qi Zhang (Primordial Chaos One Qi Palm System) oral and our written tradition says it was created by 2 of Lao Tzu's top disciples has 64 sections longer then Lui He Ba Fa form, comes with healing Qi, meditations, etc. This is a complete Primordial Chaos system.

 

regards

Ape

[ronp]

Thanks Ya Mu and Ape for responding!

 

Anyone else? Has nobody seen these videos or have any knowledge or personal interaction with any of these teachers or forms?

 

Thanks,

 

Ron

[Spirit Ape]

Seen the M.Winn primoridal qi kung and was really disappointed in it and him as a practitioner as he has students all over the world and he is making money. I think his structure and body movements are very average of that of a beginner. Sorry to come off like a bastard but its true i would waste anything on his primoridal Qi Kung i cannot comment on his other stuff but i still wouldnt buy anything from him after seeing his dvd.

 

[fiveelementtao]

Hey bums

I am drawn to the Wuji Qigong from Master Duan Zhi-Liang.

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...mp;hl=wuji+gong

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...mp;hl=wuji+gong

 

The Wuji Gong form that is also called "Tai Chi for Enlightenment" is very different from the Hun Yuan primordial...

 

I LOVE the "Tai Chi for Enlightenment" and do it 2wice a day. I use it before morning meditation and after Internal martial arts practice. I have Winn's DVD. The production quality isn't that great, but it teaches everything you need. When I have some extra money I plan on getting master Cheng's version, because M. Winn makes some of his own minor changes to the form. It is a wonderful form if you are looking for a purely meditative form. It is NOT a martial form. Many people who have tried it expecting a Tai Chi type feel are very disappointed.

[Spirit Ape]

Hey elemental,

 

Great you enjoyed it, I was given a copy as a gift i was majorly disappointed not in the form but the performance and Winn himself as he has a huge name in the internal cultivation arts I guess i expected his movements to have linkage and proper structual which I feel he hasnt got. Anyway what do you feel you get from it that you dont get from Andrew Lums system?

 

Ape

[Spirit Ape]

I would also like to see or know how the Wudang Hun Yuan Gong is and what it entales?!

[ronp]

hi elemental

 

thanks for the response and the link (although i had already read it). but that is the kind of feedback i'm looking for.

 

any particular reason you choose master cheng's version over the others?

 

be well,

 

ron

[fiveelementtao]

hi elemental

 

any particular reason you choose master cheng's version over the others?

 

I haven't seen Master Cheng's version except for the trailer... I know that Winn has made a couple minor alterations to the set, and after scrutinizing Sifu Cheng's version, I can see some of what appears to be the original version. Cheng's form looks better and I think is more of what was traditionally taught. So, I would be interested in seeing it.

 

Anyway what do you feel you get from it that you dont get from Andrew Lums system?

 

Well, first let me say that not I nor anyone else knows ALL of sifu lum's system. But what I have learned is mostly martial energy and some of the nei kung. Wuji gong has a very light, blissful energy that really opens up my middle dan tien. It is a very peaceful, healing energy. I can feel it opening a "space" in my central channel. It's great for meditation...

[VCraigP]

i was majorly disappointed not in the form but the performance and Winn himself

 

 

So...

Because you didn't like the way Winn moved you declined to try it for yourself?

 

I think it would be more beneficial to try the form and see how it affects you.

 

Winn is no martial artist. He has never claimed to be.

 

I struggled for a while with this issue about his lack of martial ability. I don't think he is without structure or flow, but he is definitely not a physical arts guy. He is not without skill in other areas though.

 

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think you can do the form - with better structure and linkage probably - and have a good experience of it, if you can let go of your need to criticize Winn's physical limitations.

 

Qi eers

 

Craig

[bukejian]

I tried Micheal Winn's, "primordial chi kung, wuji gong, tai chi for enlightment" . Although, I thought it was a nice form of tai chi, There was nothing special about it. It was very long on promise, but short on delivery.

 

Bu

[Dr. Dcup]

Hey bums

I am drawn to the Wuji Qigong from Master Duan Zhi-Liang.

Interested in the differences and/or similarities between Wuji Qigong and Wudang Hun Yuan Qigong?

Are they the same thing or?

Also would appreciate any recommendations as to DVDs about Wuji Qigong.

I have found the following:

 

Qigong for Beginners - Garripoli

Traditional Daoist Wuji Qigong - Jiang Jian-ye

Primordial Qigong - Michael Winn

Wuji Qigong - Daryll Mitchell

Qigong Wuji Style - Jeff Primack

Wuji Gong - Master Cheng Bingsong

Wu Dang Hun Yuan (Primordial) Qigong - Master Yun Xiang Tseng

Anyone seen any of the above?

Thanks,

 

Ron

 

I have Winn's dvd and practice the form regularly. I don't think I have developed a great sensitivity yet to the energy flow but when I do it it will balance me out. As mentioned, it is not being taught as a martial form but as a special qi gong form that helps integrate energies from the five directions, heaven and earth. Winn learned it and made some modifications to enhance the energy collection abilities. Besides the dvd there is also an audio cd or tapes for it that go into a lengthier explanation. So if you are looking for a martial aspect to it then you may be dissapointed. Winn has studied Tai Chi before though his movements may not reflect Tai Chi ones in the dvd as he is trying to collect or entice the energy to move through/into him. You can say the opposite of Tai Chi, from the inside out as a martial movement.

 

I cannot add any insight to the other people mentioned but you can use my comments as a reference.

[Spirit Ape]

Hi Craig,

 

The DVD of winn was a gift as my system is Primordial chaos 1 Qi Palm and since he was claiming primordial chi kung a friend bought it and sent it to me to view. I didnt recieve it to learn that form I have 3 arts that im a lineage holder so I dont need anything else. I do like to see what others are doing but that is all!

 

Im sure that form can give you something but I wouldnt learn it I feel it has nothing to offer me and Winn doesnt perform the form good at all so how can people learn it properly anyway?

 

Ape

[VCraigP]

Hi Craig,

 

The DVD of winn was a gift as my system is Primordial chaos 1 Qi Palm and since he was claiming primordial chi kung a friend bought it and sent it to me to view. I didnt recieve it to learn that form I have 3 arts that im a lineage holder so I dont need anything else. I do like to see what others are doing but that is all!

 

Im sure that form can give you something but I wouldnt learn it I feel it has nothing to offer me and Winn doesnt perform the form good at all so how can people learn it properly anyway?

 

Ape

 

That was an honest reply with better context.

 

"it has nothing to offer me" Your cup is full.

 

Winn teaches the form in the context of internal alchemy practice. Working with gathering energy from Heaven and Earth, the stems and branches, the four directions, the eight forces. He teaches this material in person, and I guess in some written and recorded form outside of the DVD. I myself originally learned it directly from him. I have a very strong positive response to the energy which is gathered by doing the form.

 

"Winn doesn't perform the form good at all..."

 

This observation I think could only encompass the physical layer. What is going on energetically? Can you say by watching the video?

 

Anyhow you are entitled to your opinion I just thought I should call you out on a critique which is based soley on viewing something with the intention to critique it, not with the intention many others here would have of trying it out as a practice for themselves. I believe these are entirely different approaches. As such your critique is not actually relevant to potential students.

 

Perhaps you would like to be more direct and say something like "don't waste your time with Winn, I have superior knowledge and training, you should study with me. And by the way I really get mad when I think how rich that White Guy has become teaching crappy Qi gong."

 

A friend of Michael.

 

Yes I am Biased.

Full disclosure.

 

Craig

[Spirit Ape]

Ive never been on here working TTB for students EVER, Not that many would come to me after my Kunlun charade!

 

But Winns whole body doesnt seem right when doing the form and yes its my opinion that energetically I think nothing would be happening to him. Maybe it was an off day when shooting the DVD?

 

All and everything recieves energy from all directions and all elements thats why we are alive no need to face that direction to recieve that only element. Energy comes from ONE source Bagua and Ng Hung comes from the One.

 

Yes, makes me sick when white guys doing bad taiji or qi kung and nei gung make money off people that will be sucked into marketing. Let me say though there is alot of great white people that can do kung fu well internal and external I just think Winns Kung Fu (hard work) doesnt show in "that DVD" regardless if you feel it or not. Now, im not saying im any better then him or anyone else but im entitled to my opinion which I gave honestly for this thread.

 

You can critique me when I bring out my DVD's soon!

 

Ape

[Spectrum]

Yes, makes me sick when white guys doing bad taiji or qi kung and nei gung make money off people that will be sucked into marketing.

 

I have been very :focused: in what I have produced in video format. I have honed my artistic endeavors into the 1st section using music that I have only been present for in live performance, and heeding the correction and progress of my own form as the catalyst of the medium. In this way I have not produced videos for others "entertainment" so much as a mirror, al beit a creative one, for learning.

 

I can vouge for the energetic qualities that change as the form and function of the "forms" have transformed the physical body, as the physical is rooted in the energetic... in this way there has been a unification of previous dualities that the practice of taijichuan, chigung, and martial art has catalyzed. As this has happened the practices are no longer primarily physical, but are primarily energetic, manifesting physical energy as a benifit.

 

Seeking "WUJI" is at the core here. That is the point. Wuji. Many forms claim wuji, but until you see and feel the psychophysiological state of wuji, it's all smoke and mirrors.

[Spirit Ape]

Spectrum,

 

Thanks I understand what you saying I still dont see Winn in Wuji or attaining wuji! sorry man....

 

Doing DVD's is very hard as you will get critisied for sure no matter what!

 

 

Ape

[Spectrum]

Spectrum,

 

Thanks I understand what you saying I still dont see Winn in Wuji or attaining wuji! sorry man....

 

Doing DVD's is very hard as you will get critisied for sure no matter what!

Ape

 

Hear Here. Give the man a cigar on not getting sidetracked from the central focus of ALL taoist practices in either still or moving meditation, that of WUJI... and from what i've seen I agree with you. There are charactaristics to balanced movements that are universal. Taiji and chi gung are no exception. I recently posted a bow sim mark video up in trucks bday thread that impressed me with a centralized movement of the dantien that is easy to see.

 

A;sp check heck out Bing in L.A. www.youtube.com/wudangbing

 

I'm going to visit him this month. I had this funny dream I went down there and was hanging in a park w/ him and his students practicing our chuan and he was like smoking cigerretes and had this look in his eye...

 

The thing is when you take what has manifested even in a breif moment finding "wuji" and apply that to a form of movement, or a weapon, dude... you fly... imagine finding wuji in every movement, floating... so sick... there are some who do it better than others, in absolulte movement we find stillness, in absolute stillness we find fine ass movement...

Edited January 29, 2009 by Spectrum

[sheng zhen]

But Winns whole body doesnt seem right when doing the form and yes its my opinion that energetically I think nothing would be happening to him. Maybe it was an off day when shooting the DVD?

From what Ive read of Winns articles it seems he is very newagey... And in new age it dosent matter how your body is, only how much you can feel "energy" and visualize "good feelings of divine love"

Edited January 29, 2009 by sheng zhen

[Spectrum]

And in new age it dosent matter how your body is, only how much you can feel "energy" and visualize "good feelings of divine love"

 

Sadly this is where the westernization

and whiteness of the british get on my nerves.

.royal boiling don't cut through the bones of illusion/

 

Keep em inside watching. Don't want people outside.

What about the love I feel when I'm learning to Spade.

After the basic premise is met eye to eye the gateway is open.

 

Do what you will harm it none.

But always you'll have to face the faceless.

Better to learn how to speak your heart with steel.

 

Do but better what always to learn you you'll how

will have to it to speak none face your

heart the faceless with steel.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Spectrum

[sheng zhen]

Keep em inside watching. Don't want people outside.

Specrtum, I have a PM for you but your inbox is full. Dude, please empty your taobum-self

[Spectrum]

Its easier to turn the cycle full,

burn off slag, lighten the load

If I flush again it'll fill again.

But everyone has to shit.