"Physical" Practice

[Unconditioned]

I've been on the forum a few months now and have been helped in many areas but there is one thing that I am still struggling with in relation to Taoism in general. Before I go into it, please do not read into what I am saying, I ask out of sincere curiosity and frankly because I 'just don't get it'.

 

There are many forms of martial arts, internal arts, etc. and I have thought about pursuing one or another to see how it might work out. But, the fundamental question always stands as a road block for me. I don't know why I should pursue a martial art.

 

I meditate regularly each night, yoga meditation. Throughout the day I am continuously 'trying' (using that word very loosely) to cultivate pure awareness/attention as to be in the state of Being - I can't think of a better way to describe it. I consider both forms of practice.

 

My motivation for meditation is not the cultivation of anything except for Truth, pure experiential Truth. But with martial and internal arts I am not sure if they align with one another. I get the impression, and it's most likely wrong, that cultivation of Qi/Chi and pursuit of MA / IA is with more of a pragmatic use towards one's daily life or in some cases to boost the ego or for hobby/sport, etc.

 

So, with all that said, perhaps some of the fellow bums could help me understand better what their motivation for MA and IA is. I have a hard time going after something if I'm unsure of the reasons. Call me a commitment-phobe

[thelerner]

Yoga and meditation can build peace and awareness, but it might be on sandy ground. Doing martial arts can help you turn the sand to stone. Giving your practice a foundation that can withstand the trepidations of every day life.

 

You say you work to cultivate pure awareness and attention, wait til you get on the mat and face a serious punch. Better yet a serious choke. Instead of the ideas of awareness you're faced with reality of pain if you don't move correctly. The mats lesson may go deeper then the zafu's

 

I feel the opposite is true too, the well rounded martial artist would do well to have a strong base in meditation.

 

 

my two bits

 

Michael (nidan aikido)

[Martial Development]

Have you ever seen two chimps sitting together, picking ticks off each other's backs? For your purposes, you may consider martial arts similarly as a grooming exercise. Through their attacks, your practice partners will draw attention to various "personal issues" that you previously failed to consider.

 

This is most obvious in pushing hands, but true of any paired practice.

[Unconditioned]

Wow, I get it now. You have GOT to be aware when you're 'fighting', lose your attention and it will cost you. Also, the spot checking, very nice... can learn a lot from any relationship.

 

I'm still interested in other examples but this is a very helpful start.

 

Thank you

[phore]

chi can help speed realization.

 

Thats what it does for me anyways.

 

Its a ride.

 

 

I suppose giving energy to something amplifies it.

so developing chi amplifies you.

if its healing it amplifies and resolves.

 

when most people recieve a form of energy they arent ready for it.

political power= corrupt leaders

money= spoiled rock stars, they say money changes people ect.

 

now for people who meditate, and seek to possess some truth or virtue, this is useful. It allows you to understand your internal motivations, and drives. It allows access to your unconscious aspects. you can then clear out all the lies that hold you back.

whats left without lies?

 

[dwai]

I've been on the forum a few months now and have been helped in many areas but there is one thing that I am still struggling with in relation to Taoism in general. Before I go into it, please do not read into what I am saying, I ask out of sincere curiosity and frankly because I 'just don't get it'.

 

There are many forms of martial arts, internal arts, etc. and I have thought about pursuing one or another to see how it might work out. But, the fundamental question always stands as a road block for me. I don't know why I should pursue a martial art.

 

I meditate regularly each night, yoga meditation. Throughout the day I am continuously 'trying' (using that word very loosely) to cultivate pure awareness/attention as to be in the state of Being - I can't think of a better way to describe it. I consider both forms of practice.

 

My motivation for meditation is not the cultivation of anything except for Truth, pure experiential Truth. But with martial and internal arts I am not sure if they align with one another. I get the impression, and it's most likely wrong, that cultivation of Qi/Chi and pursuit of MA / IA is with more of a pragmatic use towards one's daily life or in some cases to boost the ego or for hobby/sport, etc.

 

So, with all that said, perhaps some of the fellow bums could help me understand better what their motivation for MA and IA is. I have a hard time going after something if I'm unsure of the reasons. Call me a commitment-phobe

 

Dear unconditioned,

 

The ultimate goal of Taoist Martial Arts is to unite with Pure Experiential, Unadulterated Truth (Tao).

Martial Arts are just another "hook" to draw the subject in (albeit, it would seem that many folks don't get that).

 

My teacher always says Tai Chi (same is true for all Taoist MA) can be done at three levels --

 

First level -- Physical

Second Level -- Energetic

Third Level -- spiritual

 

He also stresses that there needs to be a balance between all three levels/layers. Also Martial Arts is the lowest form of Tao Gong practice...the highest is merging with Tao (or Internal Alchemy).

[Pranaman]

I only do standing meditation in extremely demanding physical postures. It unifies my body and mind, so as a whole, I am at inner and outer peace.

[Ya Mu]

The practice of internal qigong can help immensely in anyones journey to find the "truth". Everything can be considered vibration.

 

If I can get this right, there is an old saying, Man can do external exercise but then needs internal exercise. If man practices internal exercises he can sometimes forget to do external exercises.

 

Practice internal exercise for awareness. Practice a movement form, IMO qigong to keep your life force energy flowing through the body's energy gates, joints, muscles, organs and to move lymph and blood.

 

MA can be a very good physical exercise to keep fit and can be invaluable at a needed moment.

 

In the end, find what works for you and stick with it.

[rookie]

I was initially drawn to tai-chi as a movement meditative form. It is still my favorite practice. I do a few different qigong forms regularly and choose the one I feel like doing that day.

It just feels good to move.

[Spectrum]

Pranaman said it.

 

MA practice also puts you in harmony w/ percieved "conflict"...

[rookie]

MA practice also puts you in harmony w/ percieved "conflict"...

 

This is a contradiction.

All MA practices are not the same either.

[phore]

This is a contradiction.

We prefer to call it a paradox.

[Mal]

[rain]

Pranaman said it.

 

MA practice also puts you in harmony w/ percieved "conflict"...

 

well said, that what it is for me, and it let's me move in ways I never would have known without the practise.

to be or knot.

Edited January 27, 2009 by rain

[Spectrum]

Edited January 27, 2009 by Spectrum

[Unconditioned]

Wow, this is a great discussion. Does anyone have a good approach for selecting a MA to begin with? Do different types suit different personalities? I'm assuming that each practice has a different flavor/outcome?

 

Thanks for the explanations so far, I'm excited to learn more.

[gendao]

Yoga and meditation can build peace and awareness, but it might be on sandy ground. Doing martial arts can help you turn the sand to stone.

Isn't this allegedly how Shaolin kung fu got started? Bodhidharma came over and found the monks had grown physically weak from just sitting around meditating all day. So, he got them to do some more physical yoga.

 

I notice that if I just go walk for 1/2 hr everyday, I stay in shape and am much healthier, than when I was just purely meditating.

 

Thing is, energetic/physical and cultivation/daily life are all just "false" divisions/dualities, really. They are really all parts of the same whole and synergystically support and crossover with each other. So, underdevelopment in one can hold you back in others. You can only be as strong as your weakest link.

 

Like if you have bad posture or physical health, your energetic cultivation will suffer too. And vice-versa, etc. I think one of the "yellow belt" spiritual practices is dissolving all these illlusive boundaries and integrating everything together more. Certainly, real life doesn't stay within those hard lines and often bleeds through them all regularly.

Edited January 27, 2009 by vortex

[Spectrum]

Thing is, energetic/physical and cultivation/daily life are all just "false" divisions/dualities, really. They are really all parts of the same whole and synergystically support and crossover with each other. So, underdevelopment in one can hold you back in others. You can only be as strong as your weakest link.

 

So I think we're all trying to tell you it's not gonna hurt your spirit to sweat some of it out.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Spectrum

[WhiteTiger]

Who would have thought that you learn to love people by learning how to fight them

 

Your Smiling with your linps not touching eachother again.

 

*Smacks Mal on the head just like Rafiki did to Simba in Lion King*

 

Practice makes perfect!

[Mal]

Your Smiling with your linps not touching eachother again.

 

haha thats cause I have buck teeth. If I smile like this my lips get split when people hit me in the mouth.

 

This way they just hit my teeth

[Pietro]

Being able to reach something on the mat does not mean being able to reach it while you move. But if you are able to do ti during a whole tai chi form, with all its movements, and shapes, then you can more esily bring it in every day life.

 

Example:

If you close your armpits consciousness breaks. It is easy to keep the armpit open while you are basically not moving. But do it while you are doing a form. And then you will be ready to do it while you walk home from work.

Once you have that you can do it while you are interacting (speaking, having sex, same thing).

And then you can do it while you are sleeping.

 

Plus it keeps your body fit.