Is Hope a Distraction?

[Stigweard]

Over in Enrich Your Life With Virtue two views on hope were expressed:

 

Stig says ' personally believe that Virtue is the rightful cornerstone of the world and that our only hope for true and lasting world peace and fortuity is a concerted effort toward virtuous livelihood.'

 

I have trouble with the word hope too. For years I wrestled with a koan that said,"Above the doorway to enlightenment there is a sign that says 'Abandon All Hope, Ye who enter here'".

 

So I've come to see hope as something of a two edged sword. Abandon hope, roll up your sleeves, do the work, let the universe decide.

 

If hope means to wish, expect, or look forward to something then sure enough there is the potential for debate. For instance one might argue that hope is an attachment to outcomes and the future and that such attachment may very well deprive oneself of experiencing the now. Fair enough.

 

But we are all driven by hope of one sort or another. We have hope for ourselves, for our children, for our family and for the world.

 

Perhaps hope is the natural drawing of the soul toward unification with the primordial essence? Perhaps at its deepest essence humanity is led forward by hope?

 

What is your view on 'Hope'?

Edited January 27, 2009 by Stigweard

[rookie]

Over in Enrich Your Life With Virtue two views on hope were expressed:

What is your view on 'Hope'?

 

Ultimately, yes it is a distraction.

If your goal is to lead a good life in this world, then it can be a good thing.

[..be..]

How is hope different from desire?

[eighty4proof]

I think hope distracts you from reality and the truth.

[adam mizner]

hope and fear are two sides of the same thing.

 

metta

adam

 

Over in Enrich Your Life With Virtue two views on hope were expressed:

What is your view on 'Hope'?

[Apech]

How is hope different from desire?

 

 

My etymological dictionary says that 'hope' is from the same root as 'to hop'

'a leaping, or to leap, with expectation.'

 

And desire is from an expression which means:

'to cease to see - and regret the absence of'

 

So hope expresses the desire to jump quickly to a new state of being, while desire means that you crave something that you haven't got. Both are distractions from the here and now. Desire is the root of suffering (we are told), while hope suggests you being lured by an idea of what you would like.

[zanshin]

Speaking of virtue, in Christianity faith, hope and love are the three theological virtues. All three are considered divine gifts.

[Sloppy Zhang]

As others have said, and as emo sounding as it may be, hope is just something that redirects your focus from here to now. You can hope as much as you want for something, but that puts your awareness of things into the future. Furthermore, your hope MAY turn into desire, because when your hope doesn't happen, well.... it's just another chain in the link of chains holding you back, right?

 

Then again, I think it is possible to set your own self to achieve a goal. Maybe you started out as "hoping" for that goal.... but you didn't end there. And I think that's the point. If you "transmute", in a sense, that hope into an action you take, you can create a very real result.

[phore]

presence in the now?

 

Its traditionally accepted that enlightenment is necessarily prescence in the now,

but if we are present in the now it is not necessarily enlightenment.

 

Is desire lack or the rising of fulfillment.

 

Can one desire without being attached?

 

Does hope simultaneously sustain humanity while causing its hunger?

[WhiteTiger]

presence in the now?

 

Its traditionally accepted that enlightenment is necessarily prescence in the now,

but if we are present in the now it is not necessarily enlightenment.

 

Try and examine Pristine Purity in its true form.

 

Before your state was altered while growing up as a baby.

 

It really turns into a thing that your brain is still developing... Technically... but while that part is happening you are more aware of things before you had so much other stuff happening.

 

So basically look at the Nervous system and the development of their brains. There are different parts that play different roles, Nervous system is connected or a part of your brain so its an important part imo.

 

In super simplistic terms read up,

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...11012022AAFN2Sa

 

Although "Answerer 2" from the website link above, thinks the Mid brain and the Hind brain "are for more elementary purposes, for basic evolutionary needs" Which in, meditation practices believe are untrue, and sadly it can only be experienced how untrue it is and not exactly specifically scientifically be shown to be in a systematic way be true. (at least not yet)

 

Read about how modern scientists claim the different states babies have and their perception of this stuff.

 

Is desire lack or the rising of fulfillment.

I don't exactly understand what you mean.

Eh... hehe i'm having a humility moment here... I'm actually not comprehending what you wrote.

I think i kind of understand but at the same time i don't.

 

Can one desire without being attached?

I was gunna say no... but they can but its a improper way of being

 

Does hope simultaneously sustain humanity while causing its hunger?

It causes Hunger. In what way do you consider Hope to sustain humanity if it causes hunger, as you progress in these practices you get further and further away from materialism.

[Stigweard]

I hear the philosophical arguments that hope distracts us from the now moment, and in principle I agree.

 

However the feeling I have of hope tells me that there are deeper implications that maybe useful.

 

May I suggest that hope is an integral part of the Taoist Yi, or intent.

 

Let me for a moment run with apepch7's etymological line that hope is "leaping with expectation".

 

Expect comes from ex, "thoroughly", plus spectare "to look" and also specere "to look at" (interestingly this is the same root as "Scope"). So in this sense expecting is to "thoroughly look at" the object of expectation, or quite simply "TO AIM".

 

Over in the Magic Thread I gave the definition of Intention as: to cause and maintain a perception of the world, which can be regarded as a colourful way of also saying "TO AIM".

 

The fact that hope at its root meaning is to aim or intend does indeed yield to it far more spiritual significance than has been given to it thus far. And at least I believe that the deeper implications of hope may have hidden treasures for the seeker who is willing to explore further then the superficial associations given by popluar culture.

[shontonga]

Ever look into the eyes of somebody "without hope"?

 

Hope(at one level if not all) is a survival mechanism.

Without it how many of us would kiss our families goodbye

and step off this wildly spinning planet.

It is as needed as food, water, or air, at times.

Many times I've heard a person say

without hope they wouldn't have made it,

and had it be true.

 

Their hope was not feeding any hunger

unless that hunger was for life.

 

If ones ever given up all hope

they know it is a "bad" thing (last straw sortta reaction)

Even though it is very Freeing at the same time.

 

It is freeing not because of lack of hope

but because next in line is Surrender.

 

 

One can learn Surrender

without giving up all hope though.

It can be practiced

 

 

But it's also one of those things that can be read about,

talked about, and debated until faces turn green.

But if one hasn't been there

they could not really ever know.

 

Experiential.

 

 

Great topic, thank you Stig.

 

Stay well,

Shon

 

 

 

*edit because my typing is lacking!!!

Edited January 28, 2009 by shontonga

[Lightbringer]

There are many distractions and even hope or love can become distorted by the ego to something which slows our progress, but all of it is our karma to learn from. It will manifest some way for if it doesn't then we will not have the chance to overcome it and be better for it. Hope can power someone's progress as can anger, even revenge (The Count of Monte Cristo comes to mind) but eventually it is time to let these romanticized notions go. At some point you don't need hope, you know all is right with the world. There's nothing left then but to enjoy it and contribute to it.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Lightbringer

[Ian]

Ever look into the eyes of somebody "without hope"?

 

Hope(at one level if not all) is a survival mechanism.

Without it how many of us would kiss our families goodbye

and step off this wildly spinning planet.

It is as needed as food, water, or air, at times.

Many times I've heard a person say

without hope they wouldn't have made it,

and had it be true.

 

Their hope was not feeding any hunger

unless that hunger was for life.

 

If ones ever given up all hope

they know it is a "bad" thing (last straw sortta reaction)

Even though it is very Freeing at the same time.

 

It is freeing not because of lack of hope

but because next in line is Surrender.

One can learn Surrender

without giving up all hope though.

It can be practiced

But it's also one of those things that can be read about,

talked about, and debated until faces turn green.

But if one hasn't been there

they could not really ever know.

 

Experiential.

Great topic, thank you Stig.

 

Stay well,

Shon

*edit because my typing is lacking!!!

 

Nice answer ! I was going to scrape up an opinion and now I simply needn't bother.

[hagar]

Nice answer ! I was going to scrape up an opinion and now I simply needn't bother.

 

Second that.

 

I vaguely remember my first zen-phase. I told a friend that being in the world means giving up hope.

 

Only after I became a father have I realized the folly of such ideas.

 

These days I aspire to surrender to hope.

 

h

[三江源]

what kind of hope?

 

active 'hope' that hangs a wish mid air like a carrot, incentivising us.

 

passive hope that allows us to not do a great deal other than 'hope for the best' and unengagedly *shrug*.

 

hope as a deep and wide sustaining inner feeling of trust in 'everything is auspicious'

 

hope as an escape from assessing reality : an intellectual evasion.

[rookie]

Endless varieties of hope.....as many as the thoughts to describe one's relationship to it.

As we start to se happening here.

But the one common thread is not being ok with what is.

 

This is different than action without thought, such as helping someone without hesitation, or just doing something as an act or expression of goodness, but without thought or judgement.

 

Hope is a powerful agent for change. But it is personal.

 

Caring for one's child does not require hope. Compassion, kindness, defense of the innocent, these can be spontaneous and do not require desire nor hope.

 

But I'm not against hope, or a little distraction now and then

[Ian]

Present, present, present. If we want to be present, hope is in the future, yes, ok.

 

But why do we bother trying to be present? Because we hope it'll work and make things better.

[rookie]

Present, present, present. If we want to be present, hope is in the future, yes, ok.

 

But why do we bother trying to be present? Because we hope it'll work and make things better.

 

I would say there is a draw back to our natural state which is being present. Unfortunately this is not the normal state for most folks, myself included.

 

So we go looking for a practice or teacher to support the change we want. But ultimately it is dropped if it is successfull, yes?

[the buddha & the beast]

well mayB it depends on the person & where they are on their path. if some people improved their life with hope, then that's awsome. but for me, it causes pain...i've been looking @ what my head does that brings me down & it's usually when i put an expectation on how something has to be. i get hurt Bcuz when i do this, i start to need what i hope for. perhaps some1 stronger than i could hope 4 something w/o letting the end result cause them n-e pain?

[joeblast]

Sounds like some people are mixing hope up with sheer force of will. You can hope all you want and that's not going to change a damn thing. If you want something to change, WILL or INTENT are far more pragmatic avenues. Hope, while nice and comfy, is a passive, reactive distraction from what needs to be done at present to mold the future according to one's will.

[rex]

As one of the seven cardinal virtues hope is invaluable.

[forestofsouls]

I experience hope as a feeling, more than a thought. It is a soft and pleasant one, rubbing out the rough edges of experience in hard times. It opens, relaxes, and inspires, reminds me of the constant change and infinite possibilities of life.

 

Hope is no more of a distraction than love, joy, or other positive emotions.

 

I see a lot of people say it takes you away from the present. But where is there to go BUT the present? Daydreams happen NOW. Plans happen NOW. It strikes me that the enemy of spirituality is ignorance--- being unaware or suffering diminished consciousness of what is happening now.

[..be..]

Is hope relative?

Is it noble to hope for world peace but ignoble to hope for wealth?

Is it noble to hope for enlightenment?

Or does hope get in the way?

[gendao]

As others have said, and as emo sounding as it may be, hope is just something that redirects your focus from here to now. You can hope as much as you want for something, but that puts your awareness of things into the future. Furthermore, your hope MAY turn into desire, because when your hope doesn't happen, well.... it's just another chain in the link of chains holding you back, right?

 

Then again, I think it is possible to set your own self to achieve a goal. Maybe you started out as "hoping" for that goal.... but you didn't end there. And I think that's the point. If you "transmute", in a sense, that hope into an action you take, you can create a very real result.

Yea, that's what I was thinking. Manifestation can be very tricky.

 

Hope implies lack of right now. So, if you manifest hope, you are also manifesting lack now. It's like if you wish for a better tomorrow, tomorrow never comes, so you are in a sense always keeping the carrot dangling away at arm's length...

 

Or maybe I'm getting too technical here. I'm sure hope is still better than hopelessness.