Reconciling life and death

[innerspace_cadet]

The Taoist sage Chuang Tzu once said that the great men of old had no lust for life nor dread of death. According to him, they slept without dreams and awoke without worries. Of all the passages in Chuang Tzu's writings, this intrigues me the most.

 

Now of course, I don't believe in "the good old days" when everyone had a higher spiritual capacity than we do now. But I think Chuang Tzu was pointing to an ideal that anyone can reach. So I am wondering if anyone has words of wisdom or practices to share that can help me work towards that state of being that Chuang Tzu describes?

[doc benway]

I think he is talking about attachment...

[shontonga]

Reconciling life and death, How do you do it?

 

Be around it.

 

In all that it is.

 

As much as you can handle.

 

Takes practice, you know, what one can handle?

 

Life and death

(which is the same. just as rain is ocean is tears is water. The same.)

 

It's strange how so many people are so far removed from both?

To hold a baby, to sit with a grandmother,

be it a baby puppy or a cranky old man sitting an a bench,

I think these things are important?

 

Evan an hour a week,

would bring so many folks into closer contact with Life.

Take the time to be around it.

See life coming into the world.

Plant a garden and watch it grow, pull the weeds, enjoy the fruits, compost! lol

feel the dirt under your fingernails! It's good you know? To be alive?

To be a part of the cycles of life.

 

How many people never have held a baby, fed it or changed a diaper.

... or pet the forehead of someone who may not see another sunrise.

Become a volunteer at hospice.

It's always so needed, there are so many who don't have anyone to sit with them.

Life is dirty, we try to keep it clean and sterile, we buy our chicken wrapped in plastic

and never see the life it was or bother to give thanks in any way?

Find a farmer tell him you are interested in helping out if you could come "time".

Get your hands dirty with life.

Know it as intimately as your soul is able.

 

As for folks that don't dream

I know some who don't dream?(or so they say)

They are as troubled by the questions of life as much as anyone else.

 

I have some strange beliefs.

I believe anyone who drives should be able to build a car (yet, i can't!)

I also believe anyone who alive should know what it is that goes into keeping them alive.

If you eat a chicken you should be able to know well the egg that was laid and hatched

the chick that grew into this chicken and you should also know how it feels to break it's neck.

This is your food it was alive.

Grow lettuce. Or an apple tree. or make bread.

Know what's involved for you to keep breathing.

Don't be so disconnected that you think You are the only living thing on this planet

Like so many seem to think or at least how they act.

 

 

(my "you" in all this is a generic you

and not intended to be directed at any individual by the way!)

 

 

Enjoy life!

Don't worry, It's a sure thing. We are going to be dead all to soon.

Me. You. Every friend. Any enemy. Cat Dog and Bird. Mother, father, stranger, cousin.

No matter how long, in the scheme of things, it's not so far away.

Lot's a choices to be made within every moment.

Chose wisely if you can, and love it as best as able.

enjoy life while we can keep breathing.

 

Such a complex simplicity?

 

Thank you for asking

 

and reminding

 

 

Shonton Ga

[Ian]

Brief addition.

 

It helps me to remember that life is not the opposite of death.

 

Birth is.

 

Death is just part of life. Life is everything.

[rain]

The Taoist sage Chuang Tzu once said that the great men of old had no lust for life nor dread of death. According to him, they slept without dreams and awoke without worries. Of all the passages in Chuang Tzu's writings, this intrigues me the most.

 

Now of course, I don't believe in "the good old days" when everyone had a higher spiritual capacity than we do now. But I think Chuang Tzu was pointing to an ideal that anyone can reach. So I am wondering if anyone has words of wisdom or practices to share that can help me work towards that state of being that Chuang Tzu describes?

 

 

.

Edited January 28, 2009 by rain

[Mal]

I don't have anything useful to add myself, but I like these Quotes. I think the 1st one is the verse you are talking about and the last is like what Ian was saying.

 

Below are a couple of quotes from the Zuangzi and some commentary from Guo Xiang on the Zuangzi that will perhaps help. Not sure where the last one comes from.

ron

 

"The true men of old did not know what it was to love life or to hate death. They did not rejoice in birth, nor strive to put off dissolution. Unconcerned they came and unconcerned they went. That was all. They did not forget whence it was they had sprung, neither did they seek to inquire their return thither. Cheerfully they accepted life, waiting patiently for their restoration (the end). This is what is called not to lead the heart astray from Tao, and not to supplement the natural by human means. Such a one may be called a true man. Such men are free in mind and calm in demeanor." Zuang Zi

 

"Since life and death are each other's companions, why worry about them? All beings are one." Zuang Zi

 

"In Zuang Zi as interpreted by Guo Xiang (d. 312 C.E., credited with the first and most important revision of the Zhuangzi) both life and death were but different states in which all things existed. To life, life is life, but to death, life is death; to life, death is death, but to death, death is life. So whenever life or death is mentioned, people just give out different views from different viewpoints. Since life and death are both states in which all things exist, when living, one should live in composure and, when dying, one should die in composure."

 

As for practices Shon's idea sounds good. I've never changed a nappy! And it's been along time since I had to hold a baby. But connect with life by living it.

 

It's hard not to get stuck in the mind when thinking about Death, ego starts to freak out

[RongzomFan]

With understanding dependent origination, the correct question would be "why is there birth?"

[Spectrum]

In reference to "the men of old" they breathed through their heels.

[hagar]

Looking past the rhetoric in Chuang Tzu, the stories relating to the lack of grasping and aversion to death and life is about how our true nature is at the origin of both.

 

h

[innerspace_cadet]

I guess the trick is to not get too attached to life, so that death does not have a hold on you either.

[WhiteTiger]

In reference to "the men of old" they breathed through their heels.

 

and their arms... infact higher levels you can learn how to breath through all of your skin. (everywhere on your body)

[woody]

Can't remember where I read it but I came across something talking about understanding what death is like and getting perspective on it. What it said was that you should think about some year before you were born. How does it feel? Does it scare you? Most people I think would say "No - it's fine!" Well one year after you've died will be exactly the same as that & so shouldn't be scary either.

[Billy K]

Living, dying... same thing!

Once you're born, you're destined to die someday. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in 600 years. What's there to fear? Don't be attached to life, it's kinda like a movie: Sometimes sad, sometimes enjoyable, but in the end, just fiction.

[ddilulo_06]

Get out of the dualistic mind... surrender.

[ToP-fan]

I love all the quotes and comments and with this topic a lot is difficult to put into words..............Here's my 2 cents: We are infinite consciousness and the body is the equivalent of a space suit for us to navigate around in here in 3d.

We are only experiencing a very small portion of the electromagnetic spectrum from our "ugly bags of mostly water".........(Stolen from Star Trek Next Gen)

 

It's all illusion, play in it but don't get caught in the trance of it and laugh every day!