Near death experiences

[CarsonZi]

I also doubt that reality can be changed by our opinions

 

Reality is what you make of it. You can choose to see any situation in any light. Someone can beat the @##$ outta me and I can choose to see it as unjust or unfair or I can choose to see it as a lesson and grow from it. Reality is what you make of it.

[Wayfarer64]

Reality is what you make of it. You can choose to see any situation in any light. Someone can beat the @##$ outta me and I can choose to see it as unjust or unfair or I can choose to see it as a lesson and grow from it. Reality is what you make of it.

 

What you seem to be addressing is subjective reality, not objective reality. They are not different realities -only mental points of view. The interactive realm of our existance isn't over when one of us dies away from this realm, it only changes somewhat...

 

How we see our experiences may seem to be a complete world view, but as we grow and change -so does that world view - and it is not always a matter of choice. If we each had the control you seem to think you possess then real mayhem would insue...Conditions exist that are not always within our purview to change...

[CarsonZi]

What you seem to be addressing is subjective reality, not objective reality. They are not different realities -only mental points of view. The interactive realm of our existance isn't over when one of us dies away from this realm, it only changes somewhat...

 

How we see our experiences may seem to be a complete world view, but as we grow and change -so does that world view - and it is not always a matter of choice. If we each had the control you seem to think you possess then real mayhem would insue...Conditions exist that are not always within our purview to change...

 

What IS always within our control is our reactions to reality and the validity we give to our own reactions. You are right in that "reality" doesn't end in death, which ultimately makes THIS reality a lot less "real". Ultimate reality is unchanging we just hardly ever get anything more then a glimpse of this. The Ultimate Reality (IMO) is that Love/God is everything. Even in the "ugly" stuff.

 

Love,

Carson

 

In other words, there are 6.5 billion "subjective" realities on the planet and one objective reality. The objective reality is that all is one.

Edited February 18, 2009 by CarsonZi

[goldisheavy]

I really doubt this is the case. There are 1/4 million dolphins killed by drift nets every year. There were millions of innocents murdered by the nazis, Pol Pot, Ne Win, and G.W. Bush. Native Americans and the American Bison were driven to near extinction. I do not believe these beings were victimized because of their inner lives being escew in any way. They were victims of people who behaved in an evil manner.

 

Yea it can be damned hard to swallow that your own mind would kill you or sabotage your happiness. For example, one time I had a dream where I was in a fire and I died from asphyxiation in the dream (in that case, instead of switching to another dream, which is what sometimes happens when I die in dreams, I woke up). I've had countless dreams where I was either attacked or exposed to damage of some kind. While dreaming, it sure as heck seemed that the damage was coming from outside of me, but when I woke up, I realized it was all the same one/whole/unbroken mind all along. To say that "it was just my mind" is a way to signify an unbrokenness or the endless continuity of mind. It doesn't have to imply ownership or possession. It's just practically impossible for people to understand what it means for the mind to be whole. It's much more intimate and immediate to refer to "my mind is the whole mind", to use words like "my" or "yours" to make it immediate, intimate, familiar and to demystify it to some extent.

[Wayfarer64]

What IS always within our control is our reactions to reality and the validity we give to our own reactions. You are right in that "reality" doesn't end in death, which ultimately makes THIS reality a lot less "real". Ultimate reality is unchanging we just hardly ever get anything more then a glimpse of this. The Ultimate Reality (IMO) is that Love/God is everything. Even in the "ugly" stuff.

 

Love,

Carson

 

 

That is why I can see Taoism as the way to explain "reality" for me - because there is an acknowledgment that even "evil" exists as a componant within the whole structure - it is not relating to the rest of our shared existance - in any realm as if it were not a part of the oneness that the rest of our shared cosmic contruct is manifesting...It participates... It is that which does not want to belong to the rest and is yet an actual part of the whole nonetheless...The willfullness of otherness as it were...Subjective and self aware maybe - but often at odds with the efforts seemingly applied to the "greater Good"...

 

The realization that such energy is also part of the larger structure and actually creates the tension that generates actual balance is a mind-blower...

[CarsonZi]

That is why I can see Taoism as the way to explain "reality" for me - because there is an acknowledgment that even "evil" exists as a componant within the whole structure - it is not relating to the rest of our shared existance - in any realm as if it were not a part of the oneness that the rest of our shared cosmic contruct is manifesting...It participates... It is that which does not want to belong to the rest and is yet an actual part of the whole nonetheless...The willfullness of otherness as it were...Subjective and self aware maybe - but often at odds with the efforts seemingly applied to the "greater Good"...

 

The realization that such energy is also part of the larger structure and actually creates the tension that generates actual balance is a mind-blower...

 

Sorry Bro but I have read this a couple times through and I don't get what you are saying...I think perhaps you are agreeing with my last statement but that could just be my perception. Either way I prefer not to argue. Words mean so little anyways. All that really matters is personal experience of these concepts. I will never convince anyone of anything, nor do I want to.

 

Love,

Carson

[Wayfarer64]

Sorry Bro but I have read this a couple times through and I don't get what you are saying...I think perhaps you are agreeing with my last statement but that could just be my perception. Either way I prefer not to argue. Words mean so little anyways. All that really matters is personal experience of these concepts. I will never convince anyone of anything, nor do I want to.

 

Love,

Carson

 

 

I am in a large part agreeing with yr last statement and also do not wish to argue but to clarify. Points of view are just that, and do not constitute what actually does or does not transpire, only how we perceive the events and how we deal with them from our seperate states of mind.... Going beyond seprate awareness to objective awareness is what I was driving at above...

 

The awareness that we do indeed create our own worlds I'll grant anytime - but it is not always thus in a universe that is so complex and inter-active moment by moment. Our understanding of our own powers to manifest our own reality are not absolute. If they were, then all spiritual practitioners would be as gods in our realm!

[NeutralWire]

Hey Wayfarer64 -

 

That is why I can see Taoism as the way to explain "reality" for me - because there is an acknowledgment that even "evil" exists as a componant within the whole structure - it is not relating to the rest of our shared existance - in any realm as if it were not a part of the oneness that the rest of our shared cosmic contruct is manifesting...

 

All Nature is but Art, unknown to thee;

All chance, direction, which thou canst not see;

All discord, harmony not understood;

All partial evil, universal good:

And, spite of pride, in erring reason's spite,

One truth is clear: WHATEVER IS, IS RIGHT.

- Alexander Pope

 

... was just reading this, thought you might like it!

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

[CarsonZi]

Points of view are just that, and do not constitute what actually does or does not transpire, only how we perceive the events and how we deal with them from our seperate states of mind....

All there is is awareness.....There is no right or wrong, there just is what is. There are 6.5 billion realities going on all simultaneously and none are more right than any other. They are what they are.....personal perspectives of the same Ultimate Reality. And for those who can see this Ultimate Reality 24/7 there is no seperation. We are all the same.

 

Love,

Carson

[exorcist_1699]

In Taoist practice , a kiss of death is also a taste for immortality. There is always an ontological crisis in our existence as Existentialism claim, yet Taoism explains it in terms of the loss of jing and qi in every moment

of our life , so the reverse process of refining jing and qi makes the solution of this ontological crisis possible .

Edited February 19, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[Wayfarer64]

Hey Wayfarer64 -

All Nature is but Art, unknown to thee;

All chance, direction, which thou canst not see;

All discord, harmony not understood;

All partial evil, universal good:

And, spite of pride, in erring reason's spite,

One truth is clear: WHATEVER IS, IS RIGHT.

- Alexander Pope

 

... was just reading this, thought you might like it!

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

 

That is a fine way to say it indeedy! -A. Pope has often come thru with real wisdom... I can't help but think he had some exposure to Taoist thought...

 

love to all- Pat

[Unconditioned]

That is a fine way to say it indeedy! -A. Pope has often come thru with real wisdom... I can't help but think he had some exposure to Taoist thought...

 

love to all- Pat

 

Or perhaps real Truth is universal, outside of the labels we give it which is why a lot of 'descriptions' have similar themes?

 

As a side note, I have to commend both you and Carson for a constructive discussion where you both might not agree on some points but are mature enough to explore either side and stay away from petty arguments. Bravo, I hope we can see more of that around the forums!

[Wayfarer64]

Or perhaps real Truth is universal, outside of the labels we give it which is why a lot of 'descriptions' have similar themes?

 

As a side note, I have to commend both you and Carson for a constructive discussion where you both might not agree on some points but are mature enough to explore either side and stay away from petty arguments. Bravo, I hope we can see more of that around the forums!

 

Yeah -truth has a ring to it, or maybe a gravitas...BS just can't knock it around...I wish my language skills were better -I bet truth sounds like the real deal in any tongue!

 

 

BTW- check out the Krishnamurti site there is a lesson about a neighbors' violence...It seems apt here some times -what may appear to be violent is sometimes a "soft" response -perhaps our softness was violence disguissed?

 

I think not... but there is harshness here sometimes as well as comrade-ship -these topics stir the blood!

[Matt]

Edited June 11, 2009 by Matt

[Ramon25]

A physicist that believes he has proven life after death and solved BIG problems in cosmology and physics. Its called Survival Physics. Ironically he saids the big bang did not happend and that (get ready for this guys) That Positive and Negative forces (he mentions yin/yang) are colliding into each other and creating matter in an infinite void. That we are all the same (soul) separated by information barriers (all is one) and that matter is a product of this force aswell. This is a SHORT summary you can find more/mathematics on google.

http://www.victorzammit.com/afterlifeartic...ronpearson.html

 

Oh the universe will give you exactly what you need in order to grow in the way your true heart desires. be carfeul what you wish for. Some physicist have seen how the present is in contact with the future and how we actually may be remembering ourselves and our lives into existence, so therefore you feel I future you want like feeling your "cosmic self" and it gets brought into existence some how, You basically are collapsing on a quantam possability into reality as it may not be exactly Who you were at the moment BUT who you wanted to be.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Ramon25

[xenolith]

Posts #34 and #35 are among the most insightful comments I've seen here in a while.

[Mokona]

I think that I will add one of my experiences for the topic. Not an NDE, but some sort similar:

 

Was resting in bed and relaxed into the feeling of my heart pulsing. Felt a strange falling sensation and found that the sound of my heart was gone, replaced by a feeling of being gently pushed and pulled as if by ocean waves. I thought of my younger sister. Was greeted by an in-my-face wailing and crying which awoke me from this strange state immediately. When she came back from her friends house I thought to ask her if she had been crying. Apparently she had gotten into a big fight with her friend and had come home sooner than anticipated, she had been crying.

 

Interesting if nothing else.

 

Also, what does it mean to say what is inner is also outer? Are you saying that our perceptions create reality or just flavor it?

I was thinking about examples after reading the dialoge taken place and felt like simplifying it.

1. I see someone being beat up. 2. The person being beat up feels him or herself being beat up. 3. The ones beating are beating someone.

 

Are you saying that after the fact, or even during said beating we can change the way we percieve the action? That is easy, its called perception and doesn't require a lengthy explanation. But then where does the rest of the debate come from? It doesn't change that a beating took place no matter how hard I bend and twist my mind around it.

Perhaps language is flawed and can't explain this very well.

 

I read Jed Mckenna's three books and think I understand what your saying as it pertains to.. Everything just is, right and wrong are just ideas and labels we use.

 

That makes everything a useless opinion, which in itself is an opinion. Going to point zero the truth seems to support this, but again. No existance is no better or worse than existance. I just have this habit of wondering something... and I really would like to have some useless opinions on this then..

 

Why is there existance at all? Why even give someone the chance to percieve difference, types of thought and experience? Why not make everything one color, with the same structure. and just have stick figures walk about?

Edited June 10, 2009 by Mokona