The Story of Chinese Taoism

[Guest sykkelpump]

Just saw this book on my favourite site and just thougth this was something for the many taoism interested bums here.

 

http://www.meditationexpert.com/chinesetaoism.html

[exorcist_1699]

If talk about Taoist masters in Taiwan , then Nan Huai-Chin is never viewed as a Taoist master ; most likely people viewed him as a Zen master / scholar .

 

"China's only surviving tripartite Zen, Esoteric and Taoist master " is clearly untrue and exaggerating .

 

Unfortunately the most famous guy (in Taiwan, Hong Kong..)is not always the best guy.

Edited February 7, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[Guest sykkelpump]

If talk about Taoist masters in Taiwan , then Nan Huai-Chin is never viewed as a Taoist master ; most likely people viewed him as a Zen master / scholar .

 

"China's only surviving tripartite Zen, Esoteric and Taoist master " is clearly untrue and exaggerating .

 

Unfortunately the most famous guy (in Taiwan, Hong Kong..)is not always the best guy.

 

well,I dont care.Just posted it for those who might be interested.But Who says he is not a taoist master?

And what do you mean by most likely,is it what you belive/think or is it a fact?

He certainly is known to be enlightened and he says he knows taoism,but I suppose you know better

[Mal]

Just posted it for those who might be interested.

 

Thanks I'm interested. I've brought a few of Bill books and I have found them to be very good.

 

Do you think this one is worth $35?

 

i.e

 

How to Practice the White Skeleton Visualization Method $8.97

 

The Anapana Chi Conversations of Master Nan Huai-Chin and Peter Senge $20

 

The Insider's Guide to the World's Best and Worst Spiritual Paths and Practices $25

 

They were all easily worth buying

 

How to Measure and Deepen Your Spiritual Realization ("Measuring Meditation")$97

A very good book. But overpriced for an ebook at $97 IMHO.

 

<cut and paste from website edited to remove qualifiers that could sound like my own opinions>

[Sunya]

Mal, did you read the Insiders Guide? what did it talk about? how detailed was it? biased?

this sounds interesting

[Mal]

[ThisLife]

[林愛偉]

Edited February 7, 2009 by 林愛偉

[exorcist_1699]

In Taiwan, the one whom widely recognized as the Taoist master is Shao Tin- Shek (蕭天石) , not Nan Huai-Jin(南懷瑾) ;anyway, both of these two guys brought along with them archives of Taoist and Buddhist writings , fled from China before the Communists' takeover in 1949 . In this sense, they both contribute to the continuity of Taoist and Buddhist legacy, and ,make the re-emergence of them in China and the West possible.

 

Generally speaking , when the Communists took over China, those top-class Buddhist and Taoist masters chose to stay in China ( real masters are fearless of the upheavels of times ), and the second-class figures fled to Taiwan , the third-class figures fled to Hong Kong and overseas...

 

Nan's criticism on some sects of Taoism , for example ,the Wu-Liu sect , from the viewpoint of a Zen scholar, does have its significance.

[ThisLife]

Hi There!

 

Mao didn't realize what was happening during Wen Hua Da Ge Ming (Cultural Revolution) After a time, the red guards were more of bratty teenagers and young college students who were fed an education that was far from much of Mao's intended ideas.... Higher levels of gov. seldom know what is actually going on in the lower levels of gov.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

 

.

 

 

Dear Lin,

 

I read with interest your explanation of Mao and the Red Guards. From your 'extreme' softening of reality I can only assume that you must be of Chinese origin and for nationalistic reasons feel compelled to defend what occurred during that period of history.

 

I always remembered reading a section of the Guiness Book of Records about tewnty years back that was talking about the biggest mass murderers of all times. Until I read their figures I had always assumed that Adolf Hitler held that dubious distinction. However, the book of records quoted staistics to show that though Hitler had organised the systematic murder of some 12 million people, he nevertheless only held the 'third' position. Joseph Stalin had been in charge of the Russian government when over 16 million people were murdered, (putting him into the number two position). But the biggest mass murderer of all times,... throughout the entire history of humanity,... was without any doubt Mao Tse Tung. Well over 20 million people were killed as a result of his policies during the Cultural Revolution !!

 

The reason Hitler looms so high in Western minds is that the people he killed were predominantly from countries other than his own,.... wheras Stalin and Mao Tse Tung killed almost entirely their own people. Plus, both those states were almost completely closed to Western knowledge, behind very powerful secret police organisations and what was then known as "The Iron Curtain". So, it took a long time for news of the extent of these crimes against humanity to become known to the rest of the world.

 

Therefore, in the light of all that I find it quite extraordinary to read your description of the Red Guard as simply behaving like "bratty teenagers", and Chairman Mao just being blissfully unaware of what was going on at lower levels of government.

 

Surely, if one's aim in following teachings like those of Taoism is to know the Truth underlying wordly existence,.... surely we must not be afraid to look at the comparatively far simple truths surrounding the loathsome, but easily visible and verifiable actions of mass murderers ?

 

 

Peace,

 

ThisLife

 

 

.

[林愛偉]

.

Dear Lin,

 

I read with interest your explanation of Mao and the Red Guards. From your 'extreme' softening of reality I can only assume that you must be of Chinese origin and for nationalistic reasons feel compelled to defend what occurred during that period of history.

 

I always remembered reading a section of the Guiness Book of Records about tewnty years back that was talking about the biggest mass murderers of all times. Until I read their figures I had always assumed that Adolf Hitler held that dubious distinction. However, the book of records quoted staistics to show that though Hitler had organised the systematic murder of some 12 million people, he nevertheless only held the 'third' position. Joseph Stalin had been in charge of the Russian government when over 16 million people were murdered, (putting him into the number two position). But the biggest mass murderer of all times,... throughout the entire history of humanity,... was without any doubt Mao Tse Tung. Well over 20 million people were killed as a result of his policies during the Cultural Revolution !!

 

The reason Hitler looms so high in Western minds is that the people he killed were predominantly from countries other than his own,.... wheras Stalin and Mao Tse Tung killed almost entirely their own people. Plus, both those states were almost completely closed to Western knowledge, behind very powerful secret police organisations and what was then known as "The Iron Curtain". So, it took a long time for news of the extent of these crimes against humanity to become known to the rest of the world.

 

Therefore, in the light of all that I find it quite extraordinary to read your description of the Red Guard as simply behaving like "bratty teenagers", and Chairman Mao just being blissfully unaware of what was going on at lower levels of government.

 

Surely, if one's aim in following teachings like those of Taoism is to know the Truth underlying wordly existence,.... surely we must not be afraid to look at the comparatively far simple truths surrounding the loathsome, but easily visible and verifiable actions of mass murderers ?

Peace,

 

ThisLife

.

 

 

Not at all of Chinese descent. I just heard many things from the horses mouth, that's all. A different take than what the west puts out. And by the conduct of the people I lived with in my city in China, and those around them, something was clicking with their story.

 

Enjoy !

 

Peace,

Lin

[YMWong]

In Taiwan, the one whom widely recognized as the Taoist master is Shao Tin- Shek (蕭天石) , not Nan Huai-Jin(南懷瑾) ;anyway, both of these two guys brought along with them archives of Taoist and Buddhist writings , fled from China before the Communists' takeover in 1949.

 

With all respect for Xiao Tianshi, whom I knew personally, I really don't know where he was "THE widely recognized Daoist Master" in Taiwan. Xiao was a good friend of Nan and was know mainly because he founded Ziyou Press publishing the books he brought with him from China.

Long before the Nationalists fled to China, Taiwan had a wide variety of great Daoist Masters most of which coming from Fujian - and therefore mostly from the southern Zhengyi and related sects - and many more fled with the Nationalists - including of course the 63th Celestial Master Zhang.

 

Generally speaking , when the Communists took over China, those top-class Buddhist and Taoist masters chose to stay in China ( real masters are fearless of the upheavels of times ), and the second-class figures fled to Taiwan , the third-class figures fled to Hong Kong and overseas...

 

This is another totally unfounded criticism. Those who fled did so simply because the proper situation created, or because they were in a position to fled - REGARDLESS of their 'rank' in Daoism/Buddhism.

 

Not at all of Chinese descent. I just heard many things from the horses mouth, that's all.

 

I am afraid you haven't heard enough things to make up your mind in a realistic way

 

YM

Edited February 8, 2009 by YMWong

[林愛偉]

With all respect for Xiao Tianshi, whom I knew personally, I really don't know where he was "THE widely recognized Daoist Master" in Taiwan. Xiao was a good friend of Nan and was know mainly because he founded Ziyou Press publishing the books he brought with him from China.

Long before the Nationalists fled to China, Taiwan had a wide variety of great Daoist Masters most of which coming from Fujian - and therefore mostly from the southern Zhengyi and related sects - and many more fled with the Nationalists - including of course the 63th Celestial Master Zhang.

This is another totally unfounded criticism. Those who fled did so simply because the proper situation created, or because they were in a position to fled - REGARDLESS of their 'rank' in Daoism/Buddhism.

I am afraid you haven't heard enough things to make up your mind in a realistic way

 

YM

 

 

63rd Heavenly Master Chang Yi Xiang of the Zheng Yi Sect...? I correspond with her frequently. She is my cultivation brother's teacher.

 

As for the story i received... I have my own reasons to feel and believe as I do. THere is always some good in people's heart's regardless of their ways.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[YMWong]

63rd Heavenly Master Chang Yi Xiang of the Zheng Yi Sect...? I correspond with her frequently. She is my cultivation brother's teacher.

 

LOL

 

No, the actual 63th Celestial Master Zhang Enpu

http://eng.taoism.org.hk/general-daoism/em.../pg1-4-40-4.htm

 

As for the story i received... I have my own reasons to feel and believe as I do. THere is always some good in people's heart's regardless of their ways.

 

Of course anybody is convinced of being right and doing good, so were both Mao and Hitler.

But regardless of what one 'believes' it is the results that counts, and those are all verifiable history now

 

YM

[林愛偉]

LOL

 

No, the actual 63th Celestial Master Zhang Enpu

http://eng.taoism.org.hk/general-daoism/em.../pg1-4-40-4.htm

Of course anybody is convinced of being right and doing good, so were both Mao and Hitler.

But regardless of what one 'believes' it is the results that counts, and those are all verifiable history now

 

YM

 

Heavenly Master Chang Yi XIang in Hawaii, founder of World Medicine Institute, is of the Zheng Yi Sect of Long Hu Shan.

http://worldmedicineinstitute.com/about/fo...rs_message.html

 

Sorry about the number, She is the 64th Heavenly Master. I always get mixed up with the numbers.

 

Peace,

Lin

[exorcist_1699]

 

Long before the Nationalists fled to China, Taiwan had a wide variety of great Daoist Masters most of which coming from Fujian - and therefore mostly from the southern Zhengyi and related sects - and many more fled with the Nationalists - including of course the 63th Celestial Master Zhang.

This is another totally unfounded criticism. Those who fled did so simply because the proper situation created, or because they were in a position to fled - REGARDLESS of their 'rank' in Daoism/Buddhism.

I am afraid you haven't heard enough things to make up your mind in a realistic way

 

YM

 

 

Thank you for telling me this .

 

I do not know Xiao personally. My introduction is based on some critics and my personal reading of his books .

 

Clearly what I refer to " first- class"...is talking about their ability of initiating qi to counter changes of time and political upheavals , nothing related to their social or institutional status. If his ability is high , then stay and escape are both choices ,escape is not the only alternative.

[YMWong]

Heavenly Master Chang Yi XIang in Hawaii, founder of World Medicine Institute, is of the Zheng Yi Sect of Long Hu Shan.

http://worldmedicineinstitute.com/about/fo...rs_message.html

 

Sorry about the number, She is the 64th Heavenly Master.

 

She is a real storyteller:

 

In 1969 I was honored by the 63rd Heavenly Master Chang En Pu to become the 64th generation Taoist lineage holder of a 2000 year old tradition inherited from the Han dynasty.

 

and whomever believes this story is totally deluded, sorry to say !

 

YM

[林愛偉]

She is a real storyteller:

and whomever believes this story is totally deluded, sorry to say !

 

YM

 

 

Very unfortunate. Is there any way to confirm what you say? She teaches at Beijing's Bai Yun Guan,

visits and knows old masters in Long Hu Shan, takes students there, holding ceremonies and the like.

 

During my stays at Taishan in Shandong, she was highly revered by the monks at Bi Xia Ci for her cultivation and "status" in the Daoist World.

 

Maybe she is a story teller, but what she says matches up with the Daoists I met.

 

Peace,

Lin

[YMWong]

Very unfortunate. Is there any way to confirm what you say? She teaches at Beijing's Bai Yun Guan,

visits and knows old masters in Long Hu Shan, takes students there, holding ceremonies and the like.

 

During my stays at Taishan in Shandong, she was highly revered by the monks at Bi Xia Ci for her cultivation and "status" in the Daoist World.

 

Maybe she is a story teller, but what she says matches up with the Daoists I met.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

When she started out in the seventies she used to say that she was nominated Lineage Holder of Zhengyi in the early seventies (I can't recall the date) in Longhu Shan by Zhang En'pu.

At times the story was that she was his daughter, other times she was saying she was just a relative to the Zhang family.

 

With the late seventies and the spread of scholarly research on Chinese Studies she was explained that Zhang En'pu had actually left China with the Nationalists, had settled in Taiwan and actually passed away in 1969 - living the school to his son (who just recently passed away) as it is customary in the Zhengyi branch.

So she decided for the 1969 date but kept the story unchanged, since the world is full of gullibles and there is place I guess for everyone ...

 

She started to travel back to China again like everybody after China's opening of the 80ies and made contact with various groups, that are all but eager to receive donations from overseas.

 

YM

[林愛偉]

When she started out in the seventies she used to say that she was nominated Lineage Holder of Zhengyi in the early seventies (I can't recall the date) in Longhu Shan by Zhang En'pu.

At times the story was that she was his daughter, other times she was saying she was just a relative to the Zhang family.

 

With the late seventies and the spread of scholarly research on Chinese Studies she was explained that Zhang En'pu had actually left China with the Nationalists, had settled in Taiwan and actually passed away in 1969 - living the school to his son (who just recently passed away) as it is customary in the Zhengyi branch.

So she decided for the 1969 date but kept the story unchanged, since the world is full of gullibles and there is place I guess for everyone ...

 

She started to travel back to China again like everybody after China's opening of the 80ies and made contact with various groups, that are all but eager to receive donations from overseas.

 

YM

 

Interesting. I'm not very naive, but I will do some research given your information.

And instead of reading about it, I will ask her personally.

 

Funny thing is most masters are talked about negatively even when they had proper training.

Buddhist Venerables were also talked bad about and storied made up to discredit them. Luckily,

Master Zhang in Hawaii is still alive, and can be reached.

 

Thanks for the heads up!

 

AMITUOFO!

 

Peace,

Lin

Edited February 8, 2009 by 林愛偉

[Mudryah]

I live down the street from their school. It's ok.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Mudryah