In what ways are you a machine?

[rookie]

Ok, so the body is a machine, responding to the enviornment according to physical laws.

Next level?

[ToP-fan]

Read anything by Gurdjieff who's fundamental teachings are on the machinery of the body.

[rookie]

Read anything by Gurdjieff who's fundamental teachings are on the machinery of the body.

 

I'm not interested in reading Gurdjieff or any quotes, etc...

 

But I would like to know what you think, you know, from your own experience, not some theory or theoretical discussion.

 

So what have you found to be true in your experience?

[Mal]

Ok, so the body is a machine, responding to the enviornment according to physical laws.

Next level?

 

Noticing these "automatic" responses are happening.

 

Next starting a process to change these responses from automatic and uncontrolled to intentional and chosen.

 

Body example. A person tries to punch you, you automatically cringe away. After (much) training, a person tries to punch you, your automatic response is a structurally sound protective posture.

[rookie]

Noticing these "automatic" responses are happening.

 

Next starting a process to change these responses from automatic and uncontrolled to intentional and chosen.

 

Body example. A person tries to punch you, you automatically cringe away. After (much) training, a person tries to punch you, your automatic response is a structurally sound protective posture.

 

yep, so there is a level of programming, or training that can be done for the automatic responses.

I would say this happens for the habitual responses in the mental/emotinal complex as well.

New habits can be formed.

Then you have new automatic responses.

 

Still a machine, albiet a programmable one.

 

Other levels?

 

So is this you? this machine?

[zanshin]

It's not me, don't think I'm a machine or a being of energy or anything of a higher level at the moment.

 

I am a girl with a head cold being lazy and drinking tea with her feet on the couch. If I was a machine I would call a mechanic, but I am secretly rather enjoying the current slightly pathetic program. I do not think machines worry about such things, they either do what they are built to do or they break down, people are much more sporadic and chaotic and I really have no idea what we are built to do- maybe to drink tea and take long lunches as I seem to be sublimely designed for that and so will continue to fulfil my purpose.

[Gerard]

Ok, so the body is a machine, responding to the enviornment according to physical laws.

Next level?

 

 

Describe those physical laws you're talking about, Mr Scientist.

[rookie]

It's not me, don't think I'm a machine or a being of energy or anything of a higher level at the moment.

 

I am a girl with a head cold being lazy and drinking tea with her feet on the couch. If I was a machine I would call a mechanic, but I am secretly rather enjoying the current slightly pathetic program. I do not think machines worry about such things, they either do what they are built to do or they break down, people are much more sporadic and chaotic and I really have no idea what we are built to do- maybe to drink tea and take long lunches as I seem to be sublimely designed for that and so will continue to fulfil my purpose.

 

nice

 

I should say, in what ways are you like a machine..........responding according to some set of laws, or rules, or according to a program (with a computer also being a machine)

 

Machines can generate chaotic patterns.

 

By the way, I do not believe we are machines, but we are mechanical in ways.....sometimes.

[zanshin]

I agree we are mechanical in ways- sometimes. And the body does run on electricity, every thought or muscle movement. all due to electricity and synaptic activity, could be mechanical and brain very complex computer. I don't think it can be deduced down to something nice and orderly, maybe someday they'll get us fixed so we'll run a little smoother and everything nice and predictable so wouldn't that be boring, but just when someone thinks they have it figured out they don't or at least some weird exceptions, goes for scientists too, all that electricity is tricksy. So will continue to soul search for my true program as there's a chance it might be drinking frou-frou coffee drinks and chatting with girl friends or dancing around the living room with my kids.

[Aetherous]

If a machine were to recognize its own machineness, and then make decisions that are uncharacteristic of how it was programmed...would that make it not a machine?

[rookie]

If a machine were to recognize its own machineness, and then make decisions that are uncharacteristic of how it was programmed...would that make it not a machine?

 

good question

 

There are already programs that reprogram themselves. But these are still programs running on a computer.

Take away the hardware and what is left?

 

 

 

Describe those physical laws you're talking about, Mr Scientist.

 

I wasn't intending to get esoteric with that one, so the normal laws that apply to physical objects that have mass. If you want ot add some special knowledge you have about chi or something else, go ahead.

[Gerard]

Edited February 8, 2009 by durkhrod chogori

[joeblast]

yep, so there is a level of programming, or training that can be done for the automatic responses.

I would say this happens for the habitual responses in the mental/emotinal complex as well.

New habits can be formed.

Then you have new automatic responses.

 

Still a machine, albiet a programmable one.

 

Other levels?

 

So is this you? this machine?

The brain builds neural networks of habit, so in a sense, programming habits upon oneself. That's why its so hard to break existing habits, especially when trying to replace it with a new habit that runs contrary to the old.

[rookie]

[ralis]

I began to notice my programmed behavior when I was taking the Feldenkrais training. I experienced the unconditioned part of me and realized that what I thought was freedom, was an illusion. I was living in a facade of false personalities, that were reactions to the external world. Felt like I was in some Pavlovian experiment we call life. However, breaking the conditioned movement patterns, seems to take a lifetime. LOL!! These robotic patterns affect how we feel, think and relate.

 

One needs to remember that Gurdjieff was born and lived through the beginnings of the industrial age. which included WW2. Naturally he would conclude that humans were machines. Today we are more likely to use a term such as programmed.

 

ralis