Was Franz Bardon a channel?

[ralis]

The books claim that a being of higher intelligence walked into his body when he was 12 yrs. old. Possession? He always referred to being used or beholden to divine providence. He claimed to make the free choice at age 12.

Any thoughts?

 

ralis

[bakeneko]

Walk-in. Yes.

[NeutralWire]

The books claim that a being of higher intelligence walked into his body when he was 12 yrs. old. Possession?

 

Emphatically not 'possession'. The spirit which occupied the body of Franz Bardon was responsible for more good than I will ever be, or than most of us will ever know. But a 'walk-in' you could say, sure.

 

It was at the behest of the boy's own father that this occurred -- the father wished to meet a guru. A deal was struck. The boy who originally occupied the body got a more favourable incarnation elsewhere.

 

He always referred to being used or beholden to divine providence.

 

We all are so beholden. Divine Providence and the Tao are one and the same thing. It is what supports and nurtures every thing in the universe. The wise have a personal relationship with it, and we all should live to be so blessed say I!

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

[ralis]

Emphatically not 'possession'. The spirit which occupied the body of Franz Bardon was responsible for more good than I will ever be, or than most of us will ever know. But a 'walk-in' you could say, sure.

 

It was at the behest of the boy's own father that this occurred -- the father wished to meet a guru. A deal was struck. The boy who originally occupied the body got a more favourable incarnation elsewhere.

We all are so beholden. Divine Providence and the Tao are one and the same thing. It is what supports and nurtures every thing in the universe. The wise have a personal relationship with it, and we all should live to be so blessed say I!

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

 

What did Bardon do in his lifetime? He is pretty much an unknown, except in a few circles. What good did this spirit do in Bardon's lifetime? To postulate that a being of past renown walked in is difficult to prove at best. Believe what you will about Bardon, but he only left a pile of notes that are compiled in books that are poorly translated. Did any of his students do anything? Nothing is written or passed down from that time to prove that any of his students evolved. Just a lot of unanswered questions.

 

The Tao can neither be quantified, explained or brought down to our primate level of comprehension.

 

 

 

ralis

Edited February 8, 2009 by ralis

[baloneyx]

I m kinda curious if any of you here have practised what is in his books and seen any significant results? If so what can you do thanks to your training?

[NeutralWire]

Ralis -

 

What did Bardon do in his lifetime? He is pretty much an unknown, except in a few circles. What good did this spirit do in Bardon's lifetime?

 

Bardon's cures of many supposedly incurable ailments in Opava, both before and after the war, are a matter of public record. I'm talking about things like this. I believe he also achieved a great deal more, but if you are skeptical I won't press the issue!

 

The Tao can neither be quantified, explained or brought down to our primate level of comprehension.

 

Bardon wrote a training system, like the training systems to be found all over the world. It's a series of exercises whose object is (in Western terms) union with the creator. (But in case you hadn't noticed, so are most other systems people practice around here.)

 

Rawn Clark and two other public teachers have gone all the way through the system. Clark conducted a survey of 500 people a while back which showed that 14 respondents had achieved step 10 of the system, meaning a union with God/Tao whatever you want to call it. This answers not only the question of what his students have done but of course, also the one of what good Bardon himself did! He wrote a system which, for those who like it, works very well for this purpose.

 

Of course, this assumes you believe the word of all these different people! One is at liberty not to, clearly. Based on my own experience, I have found Bardon very trustworthy. (Rawn Clark too for that matter.)

 

baloneyx -

 

I m kinda curious if any of you here have practised what is in his books and seen any significant results? If so what can you do thanks to your training?

 

I practice it as my main practice and I would say I have definitely seen significant results. But I would not put it in terms of 'what I can do', but in terms of what I have learned and experienced, and especially, who I have become.

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

[ralis]

Ralis -

Bardon's cures of many supposedly incurable ailments in Opava, both before and after the war, are a matter of public record. I'm talking about things like this. I believe he also achieved a great deal more, but if you are skeptical I won't press the issue!

Bardon wrote a training system, like the training systems to be found all over the world. It's a series of exercises whose object is (in Western terms) union with the creator. (But in case you hadn't noticed, so are most other systems people practice around here.)

 

Rawn Clark and two other public teachers have gone all the way through the system. Clark conducted a survey of 500 people a while back which showed that 14 respondents had achieved step 10 of the system, meaning a union with God/Tao whatever you want to call it. This answers not only the question of what his students have done but of course, also the one of what good Bardon himself did! He wrote a system which, for those who like it, works very well for this purpose.

 

Of course, this assumes you believe the word of all these different people! One is at liberty not to, clearly. Based on my own experience, I have found Bardon very trustworthy. (Rawn Clark too for that matter.)

 

baloneyx -

I practice it as my main practice and I would say I have definitely seen significant results. But I would not put it in terms of 'what I can do', but in terms of what I have learned and experienced, and especially, who I have become.

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

 

Bardon's cures of many supposedly incurable ailments in Opava

 

Would you provide a link?

 

 

Thanks NeutralWire

 

ralis

[NeutralWire]

Would you provide a link?

 

I'm sorry, there's no link I know of. What I did not get in private correspondence, I got from 'Memories of Franz Bardon', a worthwhile book if you are curious.

 

I suppose I can give one for Rawn Clark's survey however:

 

http://www.abardoncompanion.com/Questionnaire-Report.html

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

[ralis]

Here is how I see these so called hierarchies and how some view them. It appears that we are treated like primate lab rats in some sort of experiment. Pain is supposed to motivate us to seek so called higher ground i,e. the absolute which seems to pervade all phenomena and is responsible for all phenomena.

 

ralis

[Yoda]

Bardon was one of the great masters on this planet. Even if he had no students, his actions have had a huge effect upon the world esp the west and he transmuted a lot of karma while he was at it too. I wish he had lived longer, though.

[baloneyx]

Ralis -

 

I practice it as my main practice and I would say I have definitely seen significant results. But I would not put it in terms of 'what I can do', but in terms of what I have learned and experienced, and especially, who I have become.

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

Can you share an experience? I know the book says one should kinda keep their practice to themselves, but I'm still gonna be nosy and ask

thanks

[thelerner]

None . No experiences what so ever. I was only working with it for a month or two, much of the work on level one is psychoanalytic. Analyzing your good and bad traits, quieting the mind. It forces you to learn about yourself. I didn't have the discipline for it at the time, but it earned my respect, so has Rawn Clarks work.

 

Its not on the site anymore but in the discussion section there came a question to Rawn, 'Prove it to me, show me some magic'. The answer was no, do the work yourself. The questioner asked again, even for something small, to give him motivation. 'No thats not the way it works, do the work yourself'.

 

Thats not much of an answer. But..he's not a reality TV show, he doesn't run a religion; need or want publicity. It is about doing the daily practice, self understanding, seeing the world through the eyes of a Magician and ultimately connecting to God. Its not about power, spells or even magic really.

 

Michael

[baloneyx]

None . No experiences what so ever. I was only working with it for a month or two, much of the work on level one is psychoanalytic. Analyzing your good and bad traits, quieting the mind. It forces you to learn about yourself. I didn't have the discipline for it at the time, but it earned my respect, so has Rawn Clarks work.

 

Its not on the site anymore but in the discussion section there came a question to Rawn, 'Prove it to me, show me some magic'. The answer was no, do the work yourself. The questioner asked again, even for something small, to give him motivation. 'No thats not the way it works, do the work yourself'.

 

Thats not much of an answer. But..he's not a reality TV show, he doesn't run a religion; need or want publicity. It is about doing the daily practice, self understanding, seeing the world through the eyes of a Magician and ultimately connecting to God. Its not about power, spells or even magic really.

 

Michael

 

I m trying it too, not very strictly though for now, just visualising for some minutes, training to focus. I m still a small time apprentice. Haven't done that accurate analysis of my good and bad traits though

 

I was expecting that type of response , but it's just that with things like summoning other beings and stuff just seems so unbelievable that I would really like to hear about or see first hand

I just think that if I had powers I would either not tell or tell and prove, it just seems so kinda mean to say you can do magic and leave it a that >_<, thats my opinion anyway

 

But I wonder what is the reason for obtaining powers as your progress as a magician or other practices? Is it a reward for you to enjoy? A tool to protect yourself and facilitate further practice? Or some kinda temptation to test you?

[Mal]

[bakeneko]

 

I was expecting that type of response , but it's just that with things like summoning other beings and stuff just seems so unbelievable that I would really like to hear about or see first hand

I just think that if I had powers I would either not tell or tell and prove, it just seems so kinda mean to say you can do magic and leave it a that >_<, thats my opinion anyway

 

 

A short answer to this as I am quite busy these times:

I got (and am) in contact with several entities from the earth girdling zone through the mental plane. No straight evocation, but a technique by a German magician who began his training when Bardons first book was printed the very first time. So without breaking any oath I can tell you they exist and it works ( I had some personal results on this plane).

Not sure if my word is enough for your skeptical side though

[NeutralWire]

But I wonder what is the reason for obtaining powers as your progress as a magician or other practices?

 

It is so you can serve Divine Providence and your fellow human beings. Out of love.

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

Edited February 9, 2009 by NeutralWire

[baloneyx]

Thanks for the answers guys, I guess I just have to wait and experience these thing myself over time, I'm still young so its coo, I got time....well as far as I know anyway

 

Bakeneko, can you ask one of the good entities to pay my skeptical side a short visit? Either way if they're around like I said above I might see them eventually

 

I guess thats a good reason to gain powers, but can't god himself or the top spirits of earth take care of the divine providence? And do you ever stop being for the sake of serving as a magician?just a few thoughts, I m not turning to the dark side , really!

[bakeneko]

 

 

Bakeneko, can you ask one of the good entities to pay my skeptical side a short visit? Either way if they're around like I said above I might see them eventually

 

I guess thats a good reason to gain powers, but can't god himself or the top spirits of earth take care of the divine providence? And do you ever stop being for the sake of serving as a magician?just a few thoughts, I m not turning to the dark side , really!

 

Welcome to the dark side of the force LOL

 

 

Well, I *could* ask them. The main problem with this is that the mental plane is not something you can see (a fact your surely read about). I do not even see them when they are around... at best I feel a presence and that is nearly all - other signs of their presence would sound rather shizophrenic if I write openly about them.

But from the fact of their zones of influence according to the zodiacial positions and their properties, they have more influence on life on earth than people know...

[NeutralWire]

baloneyx -

 

Thanks for the answers guys, I guess I just have to wait and experience these thing myself over time

 

I actually meditated on this very subject today and I thought of a couple more things to say.

 

Number one is that the very first thing you do with Bardon is completely understand all the inner workings of your psyche. After that, you are working everything in your life and especially magic from an extremely personal place. A place which is hard to speak of, and which can lose force if you access it glibly.

 

Number two: this is just my opinion, but Rawn actually demonstrated magic many times on his forum, it was just that people didn't always notice.

 

When I first emailed him years ago, his response showed me something about my character which I had been trying to work on but hadn't yet seen -- and which I hadn't mentioned to him. I realized that he could clearly see my soul without ever having met me.

 

After that, did I need to seem him throw fireballs in order to believe? Rawn saw the soul of every single person who wrote on that forum, and he wrote his answers to a very deep place.

 

In the end perseverance is definitely important, but creativity and a personal approach have proved really important for me as well. Decent qigong and zazen skills first (which latter skill Rawn also had BTW), and constant experimentation with self-improvement methods are excellent helps.

 

If I could give one piece of advice to anyone taking up Bardon: we live in an age where there are a million psychological techniques, from NLP to storytelling to hypnosis to Aspectics to EFT etc. etc. Try them, and if possible, change just one thing about yourself through a self-knowledge technique, to show yourself it can be done, and to have the joy of having done it.

 

EDIT: just saw this:

 

I guess thats a good reason to gain powers, but can't god himself or the top spirits of earth take care of the divine providence? And do you ever stop being for the sake of serving as a magician?

 

Every single human being's greatest delight is to serve divine providence/flow with tao, however you want to look at it. It is turning away from this which produces unhappiness -- why would you want to stop doing it? The very reason you have even chosen to come here to this earth is to 'serve divine providence', that is, to fulfill your destiny. When you begin to flow with the truth you start to enjoy yourself as a human being, to see what being a human being is. It isn't a question of 'taking care of divine providence', but of allowing oneself to be taken care of by it.

 

Tat: Why then, Father, did God not give Mind to all people?

Hermes: He wished, Child, to set it up in the midst of souls -- like a prize.

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

Edited February 9, 2009 by NeutralWire

[baloneyx]

I'll look out for their presence bakeneko should they pay me a visit

I once saw a shadow thing (kinda shapeless) on the wall as I awoke, I was having a dream and someone in my dream poked me between my clavicle and neck, as i awoke and looked to the wall on the side i felt poked this shadow was there, it then kinda whooshed behind the light on my wall. Was i seeing things? or could it be a feint sign of something like that in the mental plane? with your knowledge and the rest of the guys here can you comment on this experience?

 

I would have liked to ask Rawn to give me a quick analysis or something, is he still around?

 

I think I'm under control of emotions already though, well except 1 i guess Whats the magicians view on romantic love?

 

I guess you're right, if it makes you happy why not do it. But why do some turn to the dark side though, why are they not happy with flowing with the tao?

[NeutralWire]

Whats the magicians view on romantic love?

 

We just had a thread about exactly that, many good points, it'll be around somewhere.

 

I guess you're right, if it makes you happy why not do it. But why do some turn to the dark side though, why are they not happy with flowing with the tao?

 

You would have to ask the people concerned. Do you actually know anyone who has 'turned to the dark side'?

 

NW

[ralis]

Bardon was one of the great masters on this planet. Even if he had no students, his actions have had a huge effect upon the world esp the west and he transmuted a lot of karma while he was at it too. I wish he had lived longer, though.

 

What actions do you refer to? I keep reading the praises of Bardon on here and other sites. NeutralWire said Bardon cured the incurable after the war. Why not during the war? Did he and "Divine Providence" look into the souls of the humans being slaughtered in the camps and decide some sort of purification was in order? For their own good? For some sort of higher spiritual cause? So called spiritual evolution?

 

If I believed everything Bardon says, then I would see myself as just a pawn for some higher spiritual game by so called "divine providence", with no will of my own. Therefor everything I do and create is only done by these beings. Sounds like religious fundamentalism to me.

 

It should be obvious that my world view is not myopic and is definitely not some new age wishy washy view.

 

Serious questions need to be asked as to who is the real Bardon. Separate the myth and cojecture from the man.

 

I read the survey from Rawn Clark and take issue with claims of practitioners being one with the Tao etc. A quick read of the Tao De Ching can refute those claims. Anyone who claims to know the Tao, does not know it.

 

 

 

ralis

[bakeneko]

What actions do you refer to? I keep reading the praises of Bardon on here and other sites. NeutralWire said Bardon cured the incurable after the war. Why not during the war? Did he and "Divine Providence" look into the souls of the humans being slaughtered in the camps and decide some sort of purification was in order? For their own good? For some sort of higher spiritual cause? So called spiritual evolution?

 

He had his own personal battle during the war. Divine Providence is not a old man with a long white beard somewhere in the clouds. Balance came at a point.

 

If I believed everything Bardon says, then I would see myself as just a pawn for some higher spiritual game by so called "divine providence", with no will of my own. Therefor everything I do and create is only done by these beings. Sounds like religious fundamentalism to me.

 

You are entitled to your own opinion, but in my opinion and experience you are reading to much into things here. The answer is: Only if you are not using your own will and decide to be "lazy" and "robot-like". You can as well step away from any kind of spiritual evolution if you prefer this.

I had quite much to do with non-corporeal entities, their influences and so on... I still have my own will. Even more than before.

 

 

Serious questions need to be asked as to who is the real Bardon. Separate the myth and cojecture from the man.

 

Which can not be done easily as with all beings. But you should ask those questions and do some research if this helps you.

 

 

Cheers,

ye olde cat monster

[NeutralWire]

NeutralWire said Bardon cured the incurable after the war. Why not during the war?

 

He might well have done during the war, the point is we don't know. Whereas the healings in Opava were, as I said, a matter of public record. They included politicians and artistic figures, etc.

 

If I believed everything Bardon says, then I would see myself as just a pawn for some higher spiritual game by so called "divine providence", with no will of my own.

 

Well that's a gross misreading of Bardon's position. The idea is very much to have will and autonomy of one's own -- indeed to have a strong personal will is the magicians' first goal. You place that will at the service of the source of all things, that's all. Why not? I mean I don't know of anything greater than that to serve...? And everything serves it anyhow in the end, it's just whether you try to do so consciously.

 

In the hope that it might clarify his position, I thought I would transcribe some of Bardon's notes on the cosmic letter 'R':

The Kabbalist who calls forth this letter vibration in the Akasha will become guardian and master of freedom and independence. In this state he feels internally perfect; he feels free of any oppressive burden of law... The mastery of this letter vibration... allows the Kabbalist to acquire... the feeling of freedom of will and freedom of action... he shall accept missions to serve Divine Providence with deep humility, immense gratitude and the highest devotion, all without losing his absolute freedom of will in any way.

 

But, honestly, if you really have such a bad reaction to the way these things seem in Bardon, there's no need to study his stuff! Personally, as I have gone on with it, I've seen clearly what he meant, and it certainly isn't constrictive of my freedom as it appears to me. (On the contrary!) But there's no need to react against him as if he were some false authority figure... if he doesn't appeal, move on!

 

I read the survey from Rawn Clark and take issue with claims of practitioners being one with the Tao etc. A quick read of the Tao De Ching can refute those claims. Anyone who claims to know the Tao, does not know it.

 

You certainly are at liberty not to believe those who say they have achieved this. As for the idea that 'anyone who claims to know the Tao, does not know it,' -- you seem to be suggesting that to come into full contact and union with the Tao/God etc. is impossible?

 

I don't propose to enter into a long argument about this, since I don't see it as my job to persuade you, but as far as 'page 1 line 1' of the Tao Te Ching is concerned -- I can assure you that Rawn Clark understands it on the most intimate of levels as a careful reading of this page, for example:

 

http://www.abardoncompanion.com/IIH-Step10.html

 

... (where he speaks about this 'union' in layman's terms) will show. Tao Te Ching is no 'evidence against' enlightenment by the Bardon method in my opinion.

 

This is my last post on this subject, though; I can add nothing further to what I've already said.

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

Edited February 10, 2009 by NeutralWire