Loose Change

[Dreamingawake]

not to add fuel to the fire but they identified the pilot of the first plane to hit the WTC because his PAPER passport

survived a fiery explosion supposedly hot enough to melt steel and fell to the ground where it was discovered in

near perfect condition on the streets below. at least on other hijacker was identified by passport as well even

though that passport was actually discovered in TWO separate locations.

 

the official reason that there was no wreckage from the plane that hit the pentagon is that the intense heat from

the explosion completely vaporized the aircraft however hydrocarbons (jet fuel) burn at 2000 degrees and it

would require twice that to even melt let alone vaporize titanium. even though the entire plane was vaporized

forensics somehow managed to positively identify all but eight of the bodies?

 

bush signed the executive order to attack iraq september 10, 2001; the day before 911 and the entire white house staff was put on a drug used to fight anthrax just two weeks before that.

 

during the incident of 911 part of what slowed down the airforce response was that they were in the middle of

at least 7 exercises several of which included the EXACT SAME PLANES being hijacked

AT THE EXACT SAME TIME and flown at the EXACT SAME TARGETS AS THE REAL PLANES. go figure! we couldnt

respond to a 'one in a million' 'unimaginable' incident because we were to busy pretending it was happening?!?

WTF!?!

 

look up the gulf of tonkin(spelling?), SS Liberty, or go to CIA.GOV and look at operation AJAX where we

murdered women and children for political/economic gain. all of this is now publicly admitted so i would

put forward that if the US GOV is not responsible for 911 it might very well be the first time since the

american revolution that we didnt use a false flag operation to go to war.

 

there are lots more questions that should be answered but the only answer anyone ever seems to give is

how absurd it is to ask the question and how its already been 'debunked' so many times before. maybe if more people would stop dodging the questions and start answering them the issue could really be resolved.

[Taoist81]

not to add fuel to the fire but they identified the pilot of the first plane to hit the WTC because his PAPER passport

survived a fiery explosion supposedly hot enough to melt steel and fell to the ground where it was discovered in

near perfect condition on the streets below. at least on other hijacker was identified by passport as well even

though that passport was actually discovered in TWO separate locations.

 

the official reason that there was no wreckage from the plane that hit the pentagon is that the intense heat from

the explosion completely vaporized the aircraft however hydrocarbons (jet fuel) burn at 2000 degrees and it

would require twice that to even melt let alone vaporize titanium. even though the entire plane was vaporized

forensics somehow managed to positively identify all but eight of the bodies?

 

bush signed the executive order to attack iraq september 10, 2001; the day before 911 and the entire white house staff was put on a drug used to fight anthrax just two weeks before that.

 

during the incident of 911 part of what slowed down the airforce response was that they were in the middle of

at least 7 exercises several of which included the EXACT SAME PLANES being hijacked

AT THE EXACT SAME TIME and flown at the EXACT SAME TARGETS AS THE REAL PLANES. go figure! we couldnt

respond to a 'one in a million' 'unimaginable' incident because we were to busy pretending it was happening?!?

WTF!?!

 

look up the gulf of tonkin(spelling?), SS Liberty, or go to CIA.GOV and look at operation AJAX where we

murdered women and children for political/economic gain. all of this is now publicly admitted so i would

put forward that if the US GOV is not responsible for 911 it might very well be the first time since the

american revolution that we didnt use a false flag operation to go to war.

 

there are lots more questions that should be answered but the only answer anyone ever seems to give is

how absurd it is to ask the question and how its already been 'debunked' so many times before. maybe if more people would stop dodging the questions and start answering them the issue could really be resolved.

 

You aren't adding fuel to anything, rather you are picking at charred remains. Your claims are the same ones that have been proven false before. You are rehashing old (bad) information and outright falsehoods. The fact is Cheney was trying to have his people tie Saddam to 9/11 within a couple of days. Not to mention that the president can't (at least couldn't, who knows with the "Patriot Act") initiate a war without Congressional approval. Though, since your claims about Bush and anthrax are not cited there is really no point in discussing it.

As for "no wreckage" at the pentagon:

 

Please open your mind and look at the above links for the massive collection of evidence available. You are clearly missing the huge difference between 9/11 and the false flag operations that have happened before. WWII was entered (in part) because of Pearl Harbor, about which, again, the most one could claim is that we had a bit of a head's up.

[Dreamingawake]

You aren't adding fuel to anything, rather you are picking at charred remains. Your claims are the same ones that have been proven false before. You are rehashing old (bad) information and outright falsehoods. The fact is Cheney was trying to have his people tie Saddam to 9/11 within a couple of days. Not to mention that the president can't (at least couldn't, who knows with the "Patriot Act") initiate a war without Congressional approval. Though, since your claims about Bush and anthrax are not cited there is really no point in discussing it.

As for "no wreckage" at the pentagon:

 

Please open your mind and look at the above links for the massive collection of evidence available. You are clearly missing the huge difference between 9/11 and the false flag operations that have happened before. WWII was entered (in part) because of Pearl Harbor, about which, again, the most one could claim is that we had a bit of a head's up.

 

Wow.. That's a nice pic of some scrap metal.. Shouldn't that be charred at least a little bit? that must be the most solid evidence ever LOL

 

Thanks for putting out the exact 'answers' I was just talking about though

I'll put an extra gold star on the board for ya

[Aetherous]

The truth is: no one knows anything about what actually happened because so many people spread so much information.

 

To discuss this, we have to believe everything we've been told from every source (or just the sources we care to pay attention to). For instance: there was no plane found at the Pentagon. Where did we get this information? Is it reliable?

 

So yeah, the truth is: no one knows anything.

[Taoist81]

Wow.. That's a nice pic of some scrap metal.. Shouldn't that be charred at least a little bit? that must be the most solid evidence ever LOL

 

Thanks for putting out the exact 'answers' I was just talking about though

I'll put an extra gold star on the board for ya

 

You don't seem to understand physics very well do you. This would be part of the plane that 9/11 conspiracy nuts claim was a missile, and part of the wreckage that your above comment claims was all supposedly vaporize. In fact the impact with the concrete wall of the Pentagon knocked off while the landing gear punched a deeper hole into the center ring. Impact doesn't cause charring, fire does.

[hyok]

I studied it a little. The government had multiple chances to discover it, but a series of miscommunications and doing business as usual led to the Japanese being successful in there surprise attack. Reading evidence after the fact with perfect foreknowledge of what happened can lead to the wrong conclusion. The evidence you know, and is indeed true was only scattered maybes to the people who lived through it.

 

In the case of Pearl Harbor the government led multiple investigations and even trial into what went wrong. Peoples carreers were destroyed, it was not kept quiet. Ultimately you have to look deeply at the men involved, the whole body of work, the philosophy in which they lived there lives.

 

Its easy to say the illuminati did it, but in my opinion too simplistic. I understand the arguments that people have about Roosevelts and others complicity, but my view and research (probably less then yours) reveals its not true.

 

Michael

 

Codebreakers uncovered the Japanese communication multiple times (as you'd stated), but Washington, for whatever reasons, did not act upon them. While I can agree that it can be much more complicated, it is only that much more complicated if one chooses to see it as so. The functionality of governance in DC and the military operates within a stringent pyramid form, so nothing occurs unless otherwise ordered to do so from the top. That said, I highly doubt studying the philosophies of those involved would shed anymore light on why orders were sent down and executed as they were. But yes, who really knows anything for sure when it comes to history.

 

Additionally, I don't recall ever stating that this illuminutty was responsible for anything. That was your addition. (just wanted to clear that up)

Edited February 13, 2009 by hyok

[Spirit Ape]

FBI /CIA took all images and video footage of the pentagon from hotels near by and released 4 frame or something of the explosion and there was NO 747 crashing into the building at all.

 

INSIDE JOB!!

[Dreamingawake]

The truth is: no one knows anything about what actually happened because so many people spread so much information.

 

To discuss this, we have to believe everything we've been told from every source (or just the sources we care to pay attention to). For instance: there was no plane found at the Pentagon. Where did we get this information? Is it reliable?

 

So yeah, the truth is: no one knows anything.

 

 

i can certainly agree about how little we really know. I just generally get irked when 'debunkers' start bashing

people for asking questions and actually wanting real answers

[Smile]

FBI doesn't mention 9/11 on the Osama's Wanted poster.

[Taoist81]

actually wanting real answers

 

If one wants real answers they must not ignore them when they smack one in the face.

[Taoist81]

FBI /CIA took all images and video footage of the pentagon from hotels near by and released 4 frame or something of the explosion and there was NO 747 crashing into the building at all.

 

INSIDE JOB!!

 

You are just trying to be funny, right? All that airplane debris was planted too right?

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml

 

This one has great photos for you and it is from a pro-conspiracy site:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1

 

This one even thinks the government is using patsies to make the conspiracy theorists "look crazy" by making the "no plane at the pentagon claim":

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ppfinal.html

[Smile]

[joeblast]

[Smile]

Lol... anyway, keep believing what your government feeds you.

After all, they are acting in YOUR best interest, right?

Can you feel your life is getting better with every day?

Compassionate officials, wise policies, impartial choices...

Hurray, everyone, get aboard the "Change" train!

 

C'mon, brother, I know you see shit happening, still you you say to yourself "Nah, what morons would do that to their own people?" Ok, here are a few in one picture:

 

[gendao]

[Dreamingawake]

architects and engineers for truth http://www.ae911truth.org/

i've seen several interviews from engineers affiliated with this group.

do you know how easy it it to recruit for this group?

architect A meets engineer B. he shows him a video of WTC on 911

and says 'how might this be possible' engineer B says 'your mother must have dropped you on

your head as a baby if you cant tell thats a very well executed controlled demolition' and joins

said group. it's just that easy.

 

NIST still has no idea how the towers fell. during their 'investigation' they exposed their test structure

to far more heat and pressure than the towers were exposed to and still got jack for their efforts.

 

watch the video again and notice the squibs going off 20-30 floors below the collapse.

if the obvious thermate residue found in the wreckage as well as the video footage

of molten steel pouring out the side of the building are to be ignored then somebody

please explain how even two weeks after the collapse there were still pools of molten

metal 1000 degrees hotter than jet fuel even burns. oh wait i get it Allah really was on

their side and provided them with a miracle

 

i seriously doubt that a plane hit the pentagon but we'll probably never know. what we do know is that

the pentagon and NORAD have publicly admitted before congress and the entire nation that during 911

they were participating in several exercises that exactly mirrored the events that were actually happening.

no amount of 'your crazy and stupid that's just a coincidence because the gov said so!!' is going

to change that.. Or maybe Allah gave them another miracle?

[gendao]

i seriously doubt that a plane hit the pentagon but we'll probably never know.

I do know that a plane (or some winged craft) did hit the Pentagon as I have a reliable source who was there. That does not mean it wasn't rigged, or RC'd or something though.

Anyhow, some famous last words from a 9II widow, Beverly Eckert, who founded a 9II victims group, pushed for intelligence reform and decided to sue the Port Authority instead of accepting her government hush money for 9II:

I've chosen to go to court rather than accept a payoff from the 9/11 victims compensation fund. Instead, I want to know what went so wrong with our intelligence and security systems that a band of religious fanatics was able to turn four U.S passenger jets into an enemy force, attack our cities and kill 3,000 civilians with terrifying ease. I want to know why two 110-story skyscrapers collapsed in less than two hours and why escape and rescue options were so limited.

By "sheer coincidence," she was just killed in the Continental Airlines Flight 3407 crash today...

 

Well, when you can't buy someone's silence...

Edited February 13, 2009 by vortex

[Smile]

Anyhow, some famous last words from a 9II widow, Beverly Eckert, who founded a 9II victims group, pushed for intelligence reform and decided to sue the Port Authority instead of accepting her government hush money for 9II:By "sheer coincidence," she was killed in the Continental Airlines Flight 3407 crash today...

 

Well, when you can't buy someone's silence...

Someone told me about the airline crash today. I asked: Anyone well known was on a plane? They: Yeah, the widow who led the 9/11 group to expose the government. I: Oh, very interesting. Edited February 13, 2009 by Smile

[ToP-fan]

Dreamingawake, Spirit Ape, Smile & Vortex, thank you for some common sense and sanity in this discussion.......Anybody with half a brain can see that the falling of the towers and building 7 violated a bunch of the laws of physics if we are to believe the fairytale version.

 

An excellent video that debunks the debunkers is "911 Eyewitness" from Hoboken-tv by Richard A. Siegel.................Newton's three laws of motion are featured, along with the Law of Gravity, Conservation of Energy, Projectile Motion and Increasing Entropy.

 

There are numerous isolated video shots of bomb flashes as well as the squibs to prove that these were classic demolition take downs.

 

You can get it on Amazon.

[Taoist81]

After all, they are acting in YOUR best interest, right?

Can you feel your life is getting better with every day?

Compassionate officials, wise policies, impartial choices...

Hurray, everyone, get aboard the "Change" train!

 

 

See, this is actually one of the biggest problems with conspiracy theories. They distract people from the real problems with the government.

 

Rather than looking at what our government did to make arab crazies want to attack us, "truthers" just want to look at the demonstrably false claims that our government did it.

Rather than working to fight against the horrible policies inacted with 9/11 as an excuse, they want to look at interviews of people who were in shock on the day of the attacks instead of looking at the physical evidence.

 

Rather than paying attention to the real, albeit perhaps less ego building for "know it all pseudo-truth seekers" who think they are among the few who "see the truth", threats, they want to look at something that numerous independant (that means not from the government) studies have detailed and claim that the multitudes of people involved in these projects are all in on the conspiracy that supposedly only they, the "truthers", have figured out in their mothers' basements.

 

architects and engineers for truth http://www.ae911truth.org/

i've seen several interviews from engineers affiliated with this group.

do you know how easy it it to recruit for this group?

architect A meets engineer B. he shows him a video of WTC on 911

and says 'how might this be possible' engineer B says 'your mother must have dropped you on

your head as a baby if you cant tell thats a very well executed controlled demolition' and joins

said group. it's just that easy.

 

NIST still has no idea how the towers fell. during their 'investigation' they exposed their test structure

to far more heat and pressure than the towers were exposed to and still got jack for their efforts.

 

watch the video again and notice the squibs going off 20-30 floors below the collapse.

if the obvious thermate residue found in the wreckage as well as the video footage

of molten steel pouring out the side of the building are to be ignored then somebody

please explain how even two weeks after the collapse there were still pools of molten

metal 1000 degrees hotter than jet fuel even burns. oh wait i get it Allah really was on

their side and provided them with a miracle

 

i seriously doubt that a plane hit the pentagon but we'll probably never know. what we do know is that

the pentagon and NORAD have publicly admitted before congress and the entire nation that during 911

they were participating in several exercises that exactly mirrored the events that were actually happening.

no amount of 'your crazy and stupid that's just a coincidence because the gov said so!!' is going

to change that.. Or maybe Allah gave them another miracle?

 

You still haven't looked at the research available in the links earlier in this thread. You are once again regurgitating disproven information that is thoroughly covered.

[joeblast]

[Taoist81]

Dreamingawake, Spirit Ape, Smile & Vortex, thank you for some common sense and sanity in this discussion

 

LOL. This just brought a couple of great quotes to mind:

"Common sense is what tells you the world is flat"

and

"Bullshit makes the flowers grow, and that's beautiful."

 

By the way, all of the links earlier on include discussions of freefall, gravity etc. and thoroughly address the supposed "squibs".

 

Seriously, I'd never accuse our government of acting in my best interest

 

Amen to that. : )

[Smile]

[gendao]

Edited February 13, 2009 by vortex

[Taoist81]

That's the thing tho - weakened steel could deform and wilt, but totally collapse all the way down to the ground at free fall?

They didn't: http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm