Loose Change

[gendao]

They didn't: http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

Free fall, or near-free fall, whatever...

 

The point being that the fall was all very sudden, and pretty much nothing was left standing. When you'd think the heavy steel skeleton would have held up much better than all the other stuff that was merely hanging onto it. Especially when the fires lasted only 20 minutes in each area.

 

I mean, even bombed buildings usually have more left standing...

[Taoist81]

[Smile]

From http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marvin_Bush :

 

"Marvin P. Bush, the president's youngest brother, was a director at Stratesec from 1993 to fiscal year 2000. But the White House has not publicly disclosed Bush connections in any of its responses to 9/11, nor has it mentioned that another Bush-linked business had done security work for the facilities attacked.

 

Marvin Bush joined Securacom when it was capitalized by the Kuwait-American Corporation, a private investment firm in D.C. that was the security company's major investor, sometimes holding a controlling interest. Marvin Bush has not responded to telephone calls and e-mails for comment.

 

KuwAm has been linked to the Bush family financially since the Gulf War. One of its principals and a member of the Kuwaiti royal family, Mishal Yousef Saud al Sabah, served on the board of Stratesec.

 

The managing director at KuwAm, Wirt D. Walker III, was also a principal at Stratesec, and Walker, Marvin Bush and al Sabah are listed in SEC filings as significant shareholders in both companies during that period.

 

Marvin Bush's last year on the board at Stratesec coincided with his first year on the board of HCC Insurance, formerly Houston Casualty Co., one of the insurance carriers for the WTC. He left the HCC board in November 2002.

 

But none of these connections has been looked at during the extensive investigations since 9/11. McDaniel says principals and other personnel at Stratesec have not been questioned or debriefed by the FBI or other investigators."

 

Many of us (yes, including this poster) were initially seduced by this cospiracy nuttery, but after opening our minds and looking at the overwhelming physical evidence and actual, hands on research realized that the attacks happened. 19 hijackers and all.

 

Yes, 19 hijackers. 9 of them still alive. Something you were telling us about "actual, hands on research"? They must have landed safely on the magical impervious passport the FBI found in Manhattan.

 

The dogs were pulled out?

The cameras were turned off?

Reports from firefighters about the dead from all the explosions around the building?

 

 

Fire Eats Beijing WTC 7 Size Skyscraper - No Collapse!

 

 

Watch this video:

 

"12 seconds before the WTC North Tower collapse, a huge earth tremor occurred with a thunderous booming sound. This phenomenon registered as a large spike on seismic detection equipment positioned around New York State. The massive shake is captured in video and audio on this short clip."

 

2E-tieJFVGY

[Aetherous]

Why are these ridiculous arguments STILL taking place? It's 2009 and no one has made any real progress in debunking anything...almost 8 years after the fact.

 

I tend to agree with everything joeblast has said...not because I'm on the side that believes the government is good, but because I see the numerous holes in the conspiracy theorists' arguments.

 

It's funny when people team up and argue with things like "I appreciate you guys for your common sense." As if we actually know that what we think is sensible or not.

[Mattimo]

Taoist81,

 

The reality is that both sides of the debate have equal and opposite biases. There are people who have an emotional disposition to wanting it to be a conspiracy perpetrated by our government. Likewise, there are people who want to uphold officialdom and the word of mainstream so-called science.

 

Regardless, it is my humble opinion that any person with an open mind can determine that there are many alleged facts that simply do not equate with the official story. By your own admission, you were one such person. I am, therefore, suspicious of your use of negative verbiage and slander against the classification of people who do not share your final conclusion. Whether you wish to admit it or not, I believe you have a self-invested ulterior motive for posting your opinion. Moreover, your statements referencing ego and know-it-all truth-seekers can easily be reflected back to you.

 

Relax.

[Dreamingawake]

Taoist81,

 

The reality is that both sides of the debate have equal and opposite biases. There are people who have an emotional disposition to wanting it to be a conspiracy perpetrated by our government. Likewise, there are people who want to uphold officialdom and the word of mainstream so-called science.

 

Regardless, it is my humble opinion that any person with an open mind can determine that there are many alleged facts that simply do not equate with the official story. By your own admission, you were one such person. I am, therefore, suspicious of your use of negative verbiage and slander against the classification of people who do not share your final conclusion. Whether you wish to admit it or not, I believe you have a self-invested ulterior motive for posting your opinion. Moreover, your statements referencing ego and know-it-all truth-seekers can easily be reflected back to you.

 

Relax.

 

ditto

[thelerner]

Codebreakers uncovered the Japanese communication multiple times (as you'd stated), but Washington, for whatever reasons, did not act upon them. While I can agree that it can be much more complicated, it is only that much more complicated if one chooses to see it as so. The functionality of governance in DC and the military operates within a stringent pyramid form, so nothing occurs unless otherwise ordered to do so from the top. That said, I highly doubt studying the philosophies of those involved would shed anymore light on why orders were sent down and executed as they were. But yes, who really knows anything for sure when it comes to history.

 

Additionally, I don't recall ever stating that this illuminutty was responsible for anything. That was your addition. (just wanted to clear that up)

 

True, and the additional of illuminatti or nutty was a poor argument on my part. I could argue that breaking a code and knowing its accuracy, intent, time and date are different things. Cultural differences, hyperbole and the sheer amount of world wide data even at that time creates noise that we don't hear 60 years later. Its possible Japanese militants were calling for attacks on the U.S. every month for the past two years. We were in a cold war with them and it was bound to heat up.

 

Lets look at an angle where both conspiracy's have commonality.

 

Reading bio's of Roosevelt demonstrate to me he wasn't the kind of man who would knowingly allow the mass murder of his countrymen. Even if he was, he was intelligent enough not to start a war through the destruction of large piece of his navy. It just doesn't make sense, we'll start a war with the Japanese but only after they've crippled our top ships.

 

There attack was enough reason to start a war. You could actually defended Pearl Harbor from surprise attack, and then declare war cause they attacked us and had just declared war on us. Which they did just as they attacked. Being crippled doesn't help, quite the opposite. Any extra hate generated has to balanced with your conspiracy being found out and being hanged for treason or at least losing everything and going to jail.

 

With 9/11 experts have patiently pointed out holes in the conspiracy theories. Truthers will continually and unabashedly move dates, figures and people around to fit there latest version of conspiracy. When the facts are against them they move to the next mistruth. (course thats what they say about the other side )

 

So your left with the big facts. Like Pearl Harbor, crashing planes into the 2 building and another one or two into the ground is outrageous enough to spark war. You don't need to spend days, and have dozens of people involved in wiring a building to quickly collapsed. You've hit the damn thing with a big plane, killed hundreds and sparked a war.

 

 

In both cases doesn't somebody in the Evil Genius Committee raise his hand and say WHY?? and point out the utter stupidity involved.

 

If the Japanese attack our base, we'll go to war whether we defend it or get caught with our pants down. Why not just defend, that way we get our war, keep our war ships and have no chance of being called traitors.

 

&

 

We're destroying four full plane loads of people and hitting two symbolic towers, thats enough to start a war. No need for a dozen people to be setting up explosives in 2 or 3 buildings cause they could get caught, leave evidence or even feel guilty later. By the way maybe we should put a couple of Iraqi's onboard since thats who we want to pin it on, duuh, otherwise we waste our time for months in Afganistan.

 

It seems to me the both theories paint the Government as both Evil Genius's and real real stupid.

 

 

Michael

[gendao]

^ But reacting to an unrealized threat doesn't carry the same weight as a realized one. People quickly forget what "could have" happened. But they don't forget what DID.

 

Now, the Hegelian Dialectic delineates the I11uminati strategy of "order ab chao" (order out of chaos) as:

 

Thesis (problem) --> Antithesis (reaction) --> Synthesis (solution)

 

So, when backroom elites want to create a new order, they must artificially (via false flag ops, bogeymen, strawmen, red herrings, etc) create chaos first...

You can all go play with your moon-landing deniers, holocaust deniers and Creationists

Uh, I'm not sure we want to open all those cans of worms here, do we?

[xakarii]

Edited February 15, 2009 by xakarii

[Spirit Ape]

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=illu...l=en&emb=0#

 

Check out the flying saucer thing near the end of the clip!!!

[Desert Eagle]

...

[xakarii]

I take it back. All of what I said in earlier posts. Except the part about continuing to question your beliefs. That's probably the only thing that's allowed me to see through this whole web of self-deceit.

 

I'm guilty of the very psittacism I've been projecting onto others.

 

It's a sad fact of psychology that refuting a rumor reinforces it.

 

Not without remaining open to alternative explanations, I, in the words of the immortal Sage Francis would like to "revoke, rescind, rewind and retract" earlier posts in light of some hauntingly obvious facts...

 

Depleted uranium is used in many older models of commercial airliners, and would explain the slightly elevated but not by any reasonable standard weapons-grade levels of radiation at the pentagon and ground zero...

 

If the 9/11 commission cannot be trusted, then by my own reasoning I can't use it's figures to prove a point about near freefall collapse speeds without sounding like a dope.

 

I've been living in a matrix of my own construction, as evidenced by my relentless pursuit of my own tail...

 

This two part video moved me almost to the point of tears for the harsh truth of the self reflection it induced so powerfully.

 

What is the Matrix - misaligned priorities part 1

 

Misaligned priorities part 2

 

 

I apologize for taking up space with this off-topic thread, but I do believe the concept of oneness as presented in the video has more relevance than all previous posts in this thread combined.

[Smile]

[gendao]

Well, I was waiting for this folks...problem -> reaction -> solution.

 

The economic 9II is devaluing all global fiat currencies past their tipping points to hyperinflation...which now "justifies" the implementation of a NW0 global "super currency."

This will become the lifeblood and unifying factor for the NW0.

[xakarii]

PDX 9/11 Truth - Leuren Moret Depleted Uranium and 9/11

 

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8308261944057277769

 

Long-winded but I can't stop listening.

 

Why haven't we heard of this woman already? <--- Rhetorical

[Owledge]

Phew! Didn't read the whole thread. Looks like you work through all the points again. Loose Change is a rather old film about 9/11, no? I already didn't like it back then.

 

I think the political aspect speaks for itself, so actually it is not really necessary to talk about physics. It saddens me to see such a lack of understanding about physics. No sense about reality, about how the world works.

And then there are people who say that talks about holograms (no real planes) are disinformation by the government to make the 9/11 truth movement appear ridiculous. Sadly, those ideas could easily have been created by 'truthers'.

 

There is a video on Youtube that so much speaks for itself and is like a concise lesson in 9/11-physics. I thought it was widely known, but that seems to be not the case.

 

RwAhkRciO7k

Edited April 3, 2009 by Hardyg

[Smile]

PDX 9/11 Truth - Leuren Moret Depleted Uranium and 9/11

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8308261944057277769

Wow, nice video, was worth 2.5 hours. Especially the energy weapons part.

[Taoist81]

Phew! Didn't read the thread. Looks like you work through all the points again. Loose Change is a rather old film about 9/11, no? I already didn't like it back then.

 

I think the political aspect speaks for itself, so actually it is not really necessary to talk about physics. I saddens me to see such a lack of understanding about physics. No sense about reality, about how the world works.

And then there are people who say that talks about holograms (no real planes) are disinformation by the government to make the 9/11 truth movement appear ridiculous. Sadly, those ideas could easily have been created by 'truthers'.

 

There is a video on Youtube that so much speaks for itself and is like a concise lesson in 9/11-physics. I thought it was widely known, but that seems to be not the case.

 

RwAhkRciO7k

 

Unfortunately, you are quite right. Those who have decided the 9/11 "truth" groups are right (as opposed to those who open-mindedly evaluated the actual evidence on both sides) simultaneously decided to ignore any and all evidence that contradicts their claims. Any attempts to point out how these tragedies actually happened is met with a covering of their ears while screaming "lalalalalala".

 

All the while the real dangers of the post-9/11 world (namely, those of politicians using real tragedy to forward their own agendas) go for the most part ignored. Instead of watching Loose Change, more people should be checking out The Power of Nightmares.

[Smile]

True. I would also recommend the video that Xakarii posted. I've seen myself the photos of cars with the front engines melted away while the back of the cars untouched. This shit has no explanation if you believe the official story. What Leuren Moret on the video says is the best explanation I've heard so far, but I'm actually thinking it was a mini-hydrogen bomb, because the clean-up is a breeze and it's very contained with virtually no radiation trace.

[Smile]

Slowly but surely... it is getting out;

http://www.911blogger.com/node/19805

[Desert Eagle]

...