maoshun traveling hands

[sahaj]

has anybody had any luck leaving their body or experiences with the maoshun traveling hands technique in the Kunlun book?

I just can seem to get anything to happen.

[Aetherous]

I had one positive experience with it. I saw a hand and forearm come down through my crown and press in my ribcage somewhere. So it seems like the dream world of symbols, and the real world kind of combine with the practice. The key to getting into it is being in the state of mind between wakefulness and sleeping...the hypnagogic state.

 

It's quite an advanced technique so you have to be pretty clear energetically for it to really work...unlike me. It seems like you need to have generated enough kunlun energy, to be able to "take off" too...if there's no "fuel", then no traveling.

 

Just my experience...everyone's different.

[Spectrum]

It is not unique to kunlun, once you start clearing out the wasted mental space it's a process of awareness evolution, like the way different foods make you feel once your body becomes adjusted to processing healthier foods, as you adjust the wave of jing that enters, and regulate your mind through mind/body practices, the natural seems that exist between states of consciousness can elongate and provide windows of perspective not previously experienced... especially between wake and sleep.

 

Its best to practice early morning after a nap or evening before sleep. Remind yourself to relax when you feel like your falling. Normal chi gung and taijiquan practice, anything that brings the mind to a unified state, is condusive to this form of travel. Simply get in tune w/ genating your movement w/ chi instead of muscle strength, as you fall asleep, your body naturally paralyzes the physical, your ability to generate movement w/ chi is most benificial in this state. At least that's how it was explained to me many years ago, and has proven to... stimulate... some interesting experiences including oobe.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Spectrum

[Spirit Ape]

Spectrum

 

Do you think internal arts shouldnt train weights or any strength training or just rely on Chi and less muscle force?

 

Ape

[Spectrum]

Spirit Ape. For some reason I am drawn to read your posts. You write with fevor. You have a martial spirit of truth testing that I enjoy. I am compelled to draw a distinction here between the theoretical, and physically going through the question answer process with the body as the medium.

 

Spectrum

 

Do you think internal arts shouldnt train weights or any strength training or just rely on Chi and less muscle force?

 

Ape

 

Quite the contrary. Weights (bearing a load) are useful, we have to give our body "resistance" in order to feel what "coordinated" strength is. With that said, the "method" of how you use weight is important, as weight training can make the body stiff and muscle bound, i prefer core sets (for basic health and core development) that use body weight, and after that I use weights in combination with movement training that only add "resistance" to how I move naturally... ie you will fight like you train.

 

Thats why sparring is important, it is the mental resistance of sparring that allgins the mind and body with the application of strength.

 

By training weights, and experincing the bodies response to the load, you are forced to relax, using the more effiencnt line of muscles (supportive balancing muslces)

 

Using weights in the traditional way isolates muscle groups into short lines, but you want to develop using longer strings of muscles connected to the frame holding you effortlessly upright. Thats why standing meditation is actually good, because it's a basic load bearing rubber band system that holds us up... when you remove the load, you have ... adjusted... your connection to the earth... so you "feel" the better mojo... the cleaner connection, like the lungs opening up after a good jog, or the pores opening after standing for a few minutes...

 

the "lightness" after removing the load... this is the wave to ride. Like standing in a doorway and pressing the back of the hand against the frame for 60seconds, then releasing and "feeling" the muscle memory lifting the hand... or walk around w/ weights on the feet all day and then see what happens when you work kicks that night.

 

so in a nutshell, yes, bearing a load is good, when it's used in a way that springboards you closer to your goal.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Spectrum

[Mal]

has anybody had any luck leaving their body or experiences with the maoshun traveling hands technique

 

I keep getting too tired and rolling over to fall asleep. I need more discipline for this one

[sahaj]

I keep getting too tired and rolling over to fall asleep. I need more discipline for this one

me too, did feel like something was happening once...

should we start a maoshun traveling hands challenge?

Edited February 23, 2009 by sahaj

[gendao]

Spectrum

 

Do you think internal arts shouldnt train weights or any strength training or just rely on Chi and less muscle force?

 

Ape

I have a theory about this I am currently testing out...

 

Our muscular power is a chain with several links like our mover muscle, stabilizer muscle & tendon strength.

 

But, this chain is only as strong as its weakest link. For which I believe our proprioceptors sense the amount of force we're generating, and then limits us to the most our weakest link can handle safely. Now for most people, this is actually stabilizer muscle & tendon strength, not mover strength. Therefore, increasing mover muscle strength with weights will not increase our applicable power since it's not the bottleneck.

 

The key then is strengthening your weakest link, whatever that may be.

 

I think this is why the Shaolin monks practiced the Yi Jin Jing (Muscle/Tendon Changing Classic) and martial artists traditionally didn't just focus on training mover muscle strength. Because while there's nothing wrong with increasing mover muscle strength, unless it happens to be your weakest link, it's effectively pointless.

 

 

I think for most people then, if they simply increased their stabilizer & tendon strength, they would notice an increase in muscular power even without working out their mover muscles.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, if this is true, none of it is ever explained in martial arts or athletic instruction. I've had to intuit underlying foundational core concepts like these on my own after wasted years of vague non-understanding..

Edited February 24, 2009 by vortex

[三江源]

I havent tried it.

 

I'm not clear as to motivation for wanting to travel in this way.

 

Is it just curiosity?

[Yoda]

Is it just curiosity?

 

apparently, it's better than basic cable.

[Spectrum]

I have a theory about this I am currently testing out...

 

Our muscular power is a chain with several links like our mover muscle, stabilizer muscle & tendon strength.

 

But, this chain is only as strong as its weakest link. For which I believe our proprioceptors sense the amount of force we're generating, and then limits us to the most our weakest link can handle safely. Now for most people, this is actually stabilizer muscle & tendon strength, not mover strength. Therefore, increasing mover muscle strength with weights will not increase our applicable power since it's not the bottleneck.

 

The key then is strengthening your weakest link, whatever that may be.

 

I think this is why the Shaolin monks practiced the Yi Jin Jing (Muscle/Tendon Changing Classic) and martial artists traditionally didn't just focus on training mover muscle strength. Because while there's nothing wrong with increasing mover muscle strength, unless it happens to be your weakest link, it's effectively pointless.

I think for most people then, if they simply increased their stabilizer & tendon strength, they would notice an increase in muscular power even without working out their mover muscles.

Unfortunately, if this is true, none of it is ever explained in martial arts or athletic instruction. I've had to intuit underlying foundational core concepts like these on my own after wasted years of vague non-understanding..

 

Your on to something here. Strengthing the weakest link being the stabolizors and balancers. Learning how to move along all the unconventional paths (the spirals) to create the same linear forces like a punch is the very essense, metaphysically this is where you overcome the forces of inertia and feel "lighter"... VERY good your thinking this through. If you watch the way the Wudang forms generate motion from the center, and surf the bodies fluid curves in nonconventional ways (moving in spirals) the whole idea behind learning "forms" takes on a different meaning... it's about learning the irrigation system of the body as a cycling pump, watering the source of consciousness. Thanks for your valuable thoughts.