Expanding Awareness and Paranoia

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I was going to post this in "Kunlun Max Beliefs" however this was too strikingly off topic.

 

I was reminded of the time I was in the presence of someone who had a very high energy level, was very spiritual. The effect was, as I had noticed that my energy felt like it had to rise too, giving rise to even more problems.

 

I can recall that was the first and only time I felt like I was being attacked. Was I being attacked? No. However at the time it sure felt like it. My skin was feeling prickly and my awareness expanding. I was angry, and had some choice words for the spiritual master... Who of course laughed and told me that my energy is not as strong or as high as it should be. Then explained that when an individual's energy rises, the energy around them has to rise.

 

At this point in time I had no emotional feelers so I could not sense the emotions of those around me. It was a very humiliating lesson to learn, but i did.

 

So in conclusion, I have found that in some, it will induce most likely feelings of paranoia or hypervigilance which is not a good thing. Without a trained instructor near and left to ones own devices I can only imagine the negative outcome of it.

 

If anyone ever feels like that, the only thing that could get you through I suppose is surrounding yourself with a bubble of white light. I guess I take for granted as it is one of the first things you learn about energy training...

 

In fact, I was on a forum not to long ago where people were haing these same problems, awareness expanding and paranoia along with it. That was the "Enigma League." I guess the best rule of thumb is to make sure you have a teacher to guide you.

 

So in conclusion, my point is that if someone is beginning a practice, they may not have developed their feelers let. Some of us have been this route for a decade or more and ultimately take for granted where we have come from!

Edited February 14, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[contrivedname!]

I was going to post this in "Kunlun Max Beliefs" however this was too strikingly off topic.

 

I was reminded of the time I was in the presence of someone who had a very high energy level, was very spiritual. The effect was, as I had noticed that my energy felt like it had to rise too, giving rise to even more problems.

 

I can recall that was the first and only time I felt like I was being attacked. Was I being attacked? No. However at the time it sure felt like it. My skin was feeling prickly and my awareness expanding. I was angry, and had some choice words for the spiritual master... Who of course laughed and told me that my energy is not as strong or as high as it should be. Then explained that when an individual's energy rises, the energy around them has to rise.

 

 

i can relate with this, or at least the topic header. it seems to be a little trick of the ego when your consciousness begins expanding, your ego seems to want to asert itself even more overtly ergo paranoia. Paranoia is a very solid grounded feeling in a sense. it is one of egos most frantic attempts to maintain its ground and has a very insane feeling-quality to it, especially if you arent used to such an overt display of it! however, in my experience i have found that while "disturbing" and even "frightening" these experiences are extremely useful in the scope of a spiritual practice. i like to think of ego as a self-dismantling tool, i.e. when it tries to assert itself the hardest, its illusion and ridiculousness become the most overt and hence the perfect opportunity to for a spiritual practioner to "cut thru" it, i.e. redirct the energy surrounding it. paranoia has also a very awake, alert, and focused quality as well.

this state can also be used in connexion w/ "great liberation through hearing in the bardo", bardo to my knowledge, meaning the intermediary state between birth and death. in this instance meaning between the birth and death of newly arising/subsiding paranoia. to hear, meaning to precieve the middle ground of these fluctuations where the energy is "luminous" as the texts speak of it, that is, the center of yin/yang where dichotomies are no longer polar but the same basic energy of now, which seemingly manifests itself in different forms (preception-impulse) thru your ego projections. to put it differently, "this" can be a "that" and "that" can be "this", "that" is born because of there being a "this"; cut away the dualism, and return the basic.

 

anything i post is always from MY understaning (hope i made that clear) and hence can be disregarded, ridiculed, or whatever is your fancy. it may be that i am blowing a bunch of hot air, especially since i have no master or lineage of which to relate.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

No, what you say sounds right. I really enjoyed your post.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

to hear, meaning to precieve the middle ground of these fluctuations where the energy is "luminous" as the texts speak of it, that is, the center of yin/yang where dichotomies are no longer polar but the same basic energy of now, which seemingly manifests itself in different forms (preception-impulse) thru your ego projections. to put it differently, "this" can be a "that" and "that" can be "this", "that" is born because of there being a "this"; cut away the dualism, and return the basic.

Yeh a little different terminology but good stuff. course then again the terminology thing happens quite a bit when it comes to thins kind of thing. I call it all time is now or center of time... but then again words are well.. just words

 

I see it more of like a layer of holes of perception between reality and the mind where the level of the mind is close to the layer of the soul. But i over analyse sometimes. not necessarily a good thing.

Edited February 16, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[contrivedname!]

Yeh a little different terminology but good stuff. course then again the terminology thing happens quite a bit when it comes to thins kind of thing. I call it all time is now or center of time... but then again words are well.. just words

 

I see it more of like a layer of holes of perception between reality and the mind where the level of the mind is close to the layer of the soul. But i over analyse sometimes. not necessarily a good thing.

 

sure does, ive found sometimes i will think someone is disagreeing w/ me or they will think i with them and then one or the other simply explains it a bit different and we find we were saying the same thing!, just filtered differently thru our experience or intellectual understanding, or maybe even thru both? kind of a tangent, but i think some traditions place too much emphasis on one aspect and then neglect, or even condemn the other, e.g. saying experience is the be all and end all of "enlightenment" (such a loaded word), or on the other hand saying that one must be constantly expanding knowledge in order to "progress"; i would posit that sometimes one "begets" the other (and i do think this can work both ways), what say you?

[TheWhiteRabbit]

sure does, ive found sometimes i will think someone is disagreeing w/ me or they will think i with them and then one or the other simply explains it a bit different and we find we were saying the same thing!, just filtered differently thru our experience or intellectual understanding, or maybe even thru both? kind of a tangent, but i think some traditions place too much emphasis on one aspect and then neglect, or even condemn the other, e.g. saying experience is the be all and end all of "enlightenment" (such a loaded word), or on the other hand saying that one must be constantly expanding knowledge in order to "progress"; i would posit that sometimes one "begets" the other (and i do think this can work both ways), what say you?

 

I agree. Sometimes I myself limit myself by how I see things. But essentially all we really are doing are formulating conclusions based upon experience. Yes some traditions do not keep that openness to learning new things or expanding horizons. However each tradition seems to in most aspects do a good job of explaining part of an aspect of a given experience in some ways better than another. However there are shortcuts that exist... Like lets say fortune telling without a tool, you can do it based upon feeling, which is difficult to explain on such short notice. In short this illustrates that sometimes the illusion of a big lengthy ritual can be cut through by realizing that something already exists, we just have to connect with it and develop the connections to know its there... Which is actually harder for people to understand than the perspective of cultivation. Neither is wrong, it is still making those connections good and solid.

[Wayfarer64]

are you suffering with Paranoia, if they are watching?

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2186825/entry/2186826/

[TheWhiteRabbit]

are you suffering with Paranoia, if they are watching?

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2186825/entry/2186826/

 

LOL!!!!

 

 

Well its kind of like paranoia for lack of a better word way back when. This is something that happened 10 years ago when I thought I could learn chikung on my own haha.

[frock]

Uh, what exactly are you people talking about here? When people start getting empathic they're paranoid people can read there minds? Damn, I must be autistic or something.

Edited March 8, 2009 by frock

[contrivedname!]

When people start getting empathic they're paranoid people can read there minds?

 

not sure i understand what you are saying. if i understand correctly you just said "when people start getting empathic they are paranoid people can read there minds?" the part "they're paranoid people can read there minds?" really doesnt make sense (maybe just to me) in english could you rephrase it possibly? sorry for the misunderstanding, i would just like to be able to answer your question

[frock]

not sure i understand what you are saying. if i understand correctly you just said "when people start getting empathic they are paranoid people can read there minds?" the part "they're paranoid people can read there minds?" really doesnt make sense (maybe just to me) in english could you rephrase it possibly? sorry for the misunderstanding, i would just like to be able to answer your question

 

When people begin to develop empathy they begin to get paranoid other people can read their minds. Because they assume people have the same ability of empathy that they do.

[contrivedname!]

When people begin to develop empathy they begin to get paranoid other people can read their minds. Because they assume people have the same ability of empathy that they do.

 

i see what your saying, thanks for clarifying. makes sense to me. was your question really seeking an answer though?

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I think he was seeking an answer along that line.

 

When really the conclusion we reached was unrelated to reading minds.

 

It was the concept that sometimes when you train on your own then come in contact with people of a higher energy vibration that SOMETIMES it triggers a feeling of paranoia. Especially when one is not used to the spike in energy that happens when you encounter strong energy.

 

It was difficult to put into words.

 

Reading minds is something anyone can do, very similar to communicating with spirits. However it seems unrelated to what we were talking about.

 

Generally when people are trained and certified to read minds or communicate with spirits they are taught techiques to cut through illusions so they do not feel/become paranoid. e.g. Bubble of white/purple light meditation etc... In essence I am merely confirming a danger of self-study.

Edited March 8, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[frock]

It was the concept that sometimes when you train on your own then come in contact with people of a higher energy vibration that SOMETIMES it triggers a feeling of paranoia. Especially when one is not used to the spike in energy that happens when you encounter strong energy.

 

I just don't see how that would make someone paranoid. What is there to be paranoid of? You get paranoid you'll lose control of your energy? I guess that would make sense. Is that the paranoia you were referring to?

[Spectrum]

I just don't see how that would make someone paranoid. What is there to be paranoid of? You get paranoid you'll lose control of your energy? I guess that would make sense. Is that the paranoia you were referring to?

 

No foundational base of practice leads to paranoid delusions

 

When people begin to develop empathy they begin to get paranoid other people can read their minds. Because they assume people have the same ability of empathy that they do

 

nicely stated

[frock]

No foundational base of practice leads to paranoid delusions

 

It's not a delusion though, in the example he stated he really did lose control of his energy. Where the guy with the high energy level made him high.

Edited March 8, 2009 by frock

[TheWhiteRabbit]

It's not a delusion though, in the example he stated he really did lose control of his energy. Where the guy with the high energy level made him high.

 

I guess you could kind of look at it that way. Ten years ago when it happened I remember the more profound feelings of irritation and not comprehending what was going on, which created those emotions. I suppose if one was very experienced in these matters and has taught others one would realize what the situation was. Sometimes the dynamics of what is going on is not as easily understood as to what to do about it. Example: Sometimes you have to get the feel of an object to move it with your hands. We might not understand the nitty gritty dynamics of our muscle fibers moving to grab something, but we know how to do it.

 

My teacher just simply dismissed it and said 'you are not used to the higher energies'.

Over time, I just got used to it and got better at controlling my energy too.

Edited March 8, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[Spectrum]

It's not a delusion though, in the example he stated he really did lose control of his energy. Where the guy with the high energy level made him high.

 

Nah. Anyone who is actually "high level" helps a person feel more centered and more themselves. I don't buy that running shop this way is the Way. Walking the line leads to balance. "losing control of energy" is like going temporaily crazy. This isn't a sign of accomplishment, it's a sign of madness. Just my honest opinion.

 

A practical example is go hang out around some dulusional skizo's and see how you feel vs. go hang out with an accomlished teacher for example Gregory Fong who I am fond of. "high level energy" doesn't neccesarily mean that a person is "in control". Sometimes it's quite the contrary.

 

I admit I am coming into this thread when it has already developed into full dialog, I apolgize if I've missed details or spoken out of context. Regards.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Spectrum

[TheWhiteRabbit]

No, you bring a valid point.

 

I agree when one is around a schitzo or someone who is in fact ill, one feels not right. Thats biofeedback alright, showing that one is around something ...not good. You are right about that.

 

So, then just out of curiosity if one feels slightly dizzy, would you consider that exposure to higher energies?

Edited March 8, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[frock]

"So, then just out of curiosity if one feels slightly dizzy, would you consider that exposure to higher energies?"

 

I know this isn't for me but I still want to answer it...

 

If you're around a person who's centered in themselves, you will feel that way too. If you're around a person who's burning on both ends, that's how you'll feel. So it all comes down to how you define higher energies. Most "genuinely spiritual" people are very rarely burning on both ends. I have been around "genuinely spiritual" people that made me feel slightly dizzy before the centered clarity kicked in though. But it only lasts for a second. If you feel uprooted and crazy sauce, that's just how they're feeling. It doesn't make it high or low. It sounds like they're trying to generate a lot of excess energy to make themselves feel powerful and more uplifted that other people. Just wasting their energy, really.

 

So basically I think your so called "spiritual" role models are douchebaggers.

Edited March 8, 2009 by frock

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Well that was just one teacher 10 years ago.

 

Recently my wifes mother a few years ago made me feel that way when I was around her, that instance is definately more prominent in my mind, if so haha!

 

But many high level spirit fighters have been known to bring out peoples unconscious negativity. This seems to be a common concensus with most of the people I hang around now.

Edited March 8, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[Ya Mu]

I was going to post this in "Kunlun Max Beliefs" however this was too strikingly off topic.

 

I was reminded of the time I was in the presence of someone who had a very high energy level, was very spiritual. The effect was, as I had noticed that my energy felt like it had to rise too, giving rise to even more problems.

 

I can recall that was the first and only time I felt like I was being attacked. Was I being attacked? No. However at the time it sure felt like it. My skin was feeling prickly and my awareness expanding. I was angry, and had some choice words for the spiritual master... Who of course laughed and told me that my energy is not as strong or as high as it should be. Then explained that when an individual's energy rises, the energy around them has to rise.

 

At this point in time I had no emotional feelers so I could not sense the emotions of those around me. It was a very humiliating lesson to learn, but i did.

 

So in conclusion, I have found that in some, it will induce most likely feelings of paranoia or hypervigilance which is not a good thing. Without a trained instructor near and left to ones own devices I can only imagine the negative outcome of it.

 

If anyone ever feels like that, the only thing that could get you through I suppose is surrounding yourself with a bubble of white light. I guess I take for granted as it is one of the first things you learn about energy training...

 

In fact, I was on a forum not to long ago where people were haing these same problems, awareness expanding and paranoia along with it. That was the "Enigma League." I guess the best rule of thumb is to make sure you have a teacher to guide you.

 

So in conclusion, my point is that if someone is beginning a practice, they may not have developed their feelers let. Some of us have been this route for a decade or more and ultimately take for granted where we have come from!

 

What I have found is that you certainly are correct in MANY but certainly not all instances. What happens is that when a non-practitioner or low-level practitioner meets a high-level practitioner there is a magnetic induction effect of so much energy from the higher-level practitioner which makes a huge shift in the other person's energy body. When this happens the person's MIND feels threatened - not their energy body. The mind all of a sudden knows it is being challenged as the master by the energy body. So the MIND gives out the paranoia hoping it will be believed. I have seen this happen many times with folks. Some of them later figure it out and then study the qigong. Happens in some but not in others. Others feel the calmness and like it. But they may go home, start thinking about it, then bam, paranoia or at least severe doubts instilled by the mind.

[WhiteTiger]

Edited March 10, 2009 by WhiteTiger

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Thank you Ya Mu for your answer, it makes the most sense.

I am glad we have you on the forum