Taoist Practice and Relating to Others

[freeform]

This is something that I'm finding difficult to put together in my mind, and hopefully I can get a few opinions from you guys.

 

I practice all these 'weird' things that many people out there don’t understand. When someone asks you 'what's your hobby?' - do you tell them you practice Taoist Internal Alchemy? And if they say 'what's that?' what do you answer?

 

Does practicing this stuff alienate you from others that don’t? How do you cope with this?

 

Also sometimes you may know that someone would really benefit from a practice, but they're completely closed to it, what can you do? I know that if you push 'em usually they'll close up to it even more but if you don’t then they stay the way they are without any improvement. If you manage to convince them to 'give it a try' they might do it once or twice, with no benefit and go back to the way they were without ever experiencing the benefits. What can you do?

[BobD]

Good topic!

 

I practice all these 'weird' things that many people out there don’t understand. When someone asks you 'what's your hobby?' - do you tell them you practice Taoist Internal Alchemy? And if they say 'what's that?' what do you answer?

I normally just stop at "I do ChiKung, you know its like Tai Chi". Most people have heard of Tai Chi, so thats enough. If you go deeper, then thats when the blank looks start. It can be really hard to explain some of this stuff to people who have no inkling of it, so I just follow the route of "why bother?".

 

Does practicing this stuff alienate you from others that don’t? How do you cope with this?

Not really a problem. Those that know me are used to me going off to do some standing exercises (if thats what I'm doing at the moment), or sitting in the car with eyes closed (not driving!), "dozing". Those that don't me don't matter (and I tend not to do such things around them anyway)

 

Also sometimes you may know that someone would really benefit from a practice, but they're completely closed to it, what can you do? I know that if you push 'em usually they'll close up to it even more but if you don’t then they stay the way they are without any improvement. If you manage to convince them to 'give it a try' they might do it once or twice, with no benefit and go back to the way they were without ever experiencing the benefits. What can you do?

Ah, now that one is tricky! I have resorted to leaving books around the place, or talking about "this great book I'm reading says that....", but again its often just easier to leave them be. You can't force the issue. The best way (should it ever work, and I am not at the level where it might) would be for them to say "Hey, your life is really working, what's your secret?" and then tell em.

 

Interested to read other posts on this!

[sunshine]

Hey Harry,

 

it's not your only hobby, is it? I myself dod as Bob: "Ah you know. I am interested in Chinese martial arts & meditation techniques"... if they are interested they ask further...

 

if they ask: "Do you beliebe in immortality" I say: "Yes I do, but I don't know if one can achieve it..."

 

I personally have found a way of speaking about it without them feeling that I am completely out of order... I just try to stay real and say: I do these things and see were it leads me...

 

but NEVER try to convince anybody or push something over their heads. I have seen people getting futile on me because I was convinced raw food is healthier than cooked food... and as food is like a religion I learned a major lesson...

 

I do not think this stuff alienates you the way you think. the problem you might face is that you start to feel more knowledgable than them, worth than them etc.

 

If I really do think that something might help them I usually tend to give them material on this. For example: A friedn of mine has panic attacks. I gave her the EFT videos... but she hadn't had a look at them yet and still believes it necessary to konfront herself with the fear and a very old manner... although I know that knforntation therapy her way is not necessarily the easiest way to go... although it might be HER way...

 

why interfere?

 

One thing I learned in the past is: work on yourself and do not care so much about the others... if they see a change in you, the possibility that they ask you what you have done to get were you are rises exponentially...

 

Sometimes in cases somebody talks about a problem I have managed to handle I tell them that I found my way this or that way... that might pace the way for them...

 

so far from me...

 

Harry

[freeform]

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Edited October 23, 2019 by freeform

[sunshine]

At this point they usually burst and beg to be told about the technique.

 

For all of you who practice sexual techniques - how do you bring it up with a new partner?

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Yeah. But do they practice it?

 

I strongly believe that there is a time for everything. Whatever I might do might still be without use if the time isn't right. If the time is right for someone they will be interested immediately without one having to use any kind of "convincing techniques"...

 

Regarding sexual techniques it is like with ex topics in general...

 

be open about what you like. In your case: let your woman expereince the power of what you have learned and she will bag you not to stop (if you already are a master of it. If you are only in the training stage it might be a bit more complicated...)

 

 

Regarding blowing other people's circuits:

It is not necessary... if you like to go ahead but don't want them to get burned just ask them questions instead of giving them answers... this way the dimensions in which they are able to move get wider...

 

Harry

[freeform]

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Edited October 23, 2019 by freeform

[sunshine]

QUOTE(ben @ Sep 19 2005, 01:18 PM)

>>>I feel forums like this are important as they address the need for spirtual friendship . Sometimes I have felt like my interest in cultivation has isolated me from my family and my friends, partly because of there ignorance and partly because of a lack of skill on on my half on how to intergrate my practice smoothly. It is soo-oo important to chat.

 

That's a big topic, that the community hasn't really talked about much. I know that, for me, social integration has definately been a challenge w/ my spiritual path. Trunk<<<

 

 

O.k. I allowed myself to copy the above to this place at it covers the same/similar topic.

 

I myself have found that family can be a problem... especially if you say you need some time to meditate and they sure enough manage to disturb you BIG TIME...

 

but in general none of my friends has a problem with this... o.k.: they might feel I am a bit crazy, but that doesn't matter... I get along with them well and in cases I can share my experiences with them... what gets difficult at a certain point in ones development is that to you so many things starts to get clear while to them they further stay clouded... there sure even is the "danger" of distance developing, but this is a natural evolutionary process we have to accept or stay where were are...

 

I have decided to develop further and have learned that people walk with me for sometime and then leave again for other people to come... originally I thought it mainly had to do with me walking a "weird" path... but it is the same with everybody out there whatever you do... so nothing really to worry about but for one a way to learn detachment... healthy process in my opinion

 

Harry

[Cameron]

Intersting topic. I try to just go with the flow if possible . The reality is 99% of the time if I bring it up witha friend or whatever they are like "huh? oh yeah..your heavy into eastern philosophy and stuff." If I get a little deeper and try to actually explain thigns I do it almost always is met with the person giving me a WTF? look or just kind of going yeah that seems interesting but don't have any real inclanation for that.

 

I even tried teaching practices to a couple freinds or family and there was really so little interest now i don't bother. Also, most people I know personally are so strong in there personal views, religion philosophy whatever for me to bring up my stuff is like going to war. It becomes "my stuff" vs. "There stuff".

 

Like my grandfather on my father's side of the family is a Haji meaning he has gone to mecca(actually a bunch of times) and is so heavy into the beleif of Islam for me to talk about eastern philosophy is a total waste. Now they would just go " Yeah..umm, cameron is into zen..or something..LOL".

 

Mom is a Catholic and literally goes to mass daily...i actually tried explaining all the Alchemy formulas to her onece..merging they yin and yang energy in your body like self intercourse..opening the orbit, etc. Mom was probably like oh fuck what did I do wrong, LOL.

 

And the weird thing is though my real life friends and family are stong in there beleifs most Tao or zen people I have known or so quiet about there stuff anyway. Like outside of a meditation center or private talk they would never bring it up. it's not like something that they need tot each other people but there personal stuff.

 

I actually asked Eric Yudelove about this years ago and even though he has written several books on qigong or alchemy he said it's better not to talk about with others. Unless of course they are fellow pracittioners. Alot of these concepts are just too foriegn and weird for other people especially if there is no interest to begin with IMO.

[Yoda]

I call it "Chinese Yoga" or just "yoga" people are up to speed with that and can then they can ask from there if they feel like it. The sex part is the subject that is the funnest. I have a co-worker who will ask me "what day are you on?" it's nice that he asks how my sperms are doing. He seems impressed by any double digit answer. Everyone wants to talk about sex even if they disagree with you. Just focus on getting a rise out of them and say that it's against your religion to ejaculate. I'll call my brother and ask him how often he ejaculates, etc. Oh, I see a grey hair--you shouldn't ejaculate anymore! Take the offensive in a funny way.

 

People don't need my help in the slightest and I do my best to resonate with that aspect of their being.

 

-Yoda

[Cameron]

Right I do the same if someone is interested I'll go " It's like the Chinese version of Indian yoga".

 

I like Bruce Fratzis explanation and is probably easy for a non practitioner to understand, " In Yoga you stretch alot so that you can relax, in Qigong you relax alot so you can become more flexible".

 

Obviously there is a whole lot more to it than that but that works for someone who wants a quck explanation I think.

[GrandTrinity]

Great topic as I have been dealing A LOT with this issue lately. I moved in with a couple girls in this apartment. This one, is very much cool with meditation and yoga--but she is (and this is my opinion) STUCK in inferior system of Indian yoga! Meanwhile she is busy as hell and doesnt have time to learn the true stuff, or even have time to make progress!

 

Meanwhile every time I mention it, its like she gets offended! I gave her the Spiritual Qigong book by David Twicken a few months ago but she didnt even read it and she is such a good person (and talks about how she hates "the system") but it is as if her energy is being wasted. Meanwhile she doesnt want to stop taking classes because shes "doesnt want to waste her parents money" and its like a spiritual mess! That is, being torn between freedom, practicalty/money and spiritual study.

 

People catch glimpses of infinite bliss but cant put their finger on it! What distinguishes those people from a tao bum?

It must be a hunger inside, a hunger that is has left us no other option but to become spiritual beings and worshipping "the way"...but we must not bring this way to other people who are not ready, or else we risk having our way of life rejected and shat on as if it were nothing!

 

I am so fucken impatiant and self centered and full of myself for trying to teach people who are not ready--I tell myself. Even through what I want to do is good. Its such a fucken paradox. And even if I ignore the issue its like hell becuase we live together with other people and we see them NOT embracing the light. But maybe they are? And we are concerning ourself with death.

 

I keep telling myself that when this girl and I have cosmic heaven and earth sex everything will be okay. Now, if we could just jump off that cliff asap and not drown when we come up for air! ahhhhhhhh! I am pretty distraught right now.

 

So I guess my question is this? What happens when you go to bring up cosmic heaven and earth sex? What if you want to "liberate" someone, and they want that too! How can one possibly but that into words?!?!

 

possible scenario:

me "hey, lets have cosmic sex"

 

girl "uhhhhh what?"

 

me "you know like heaven and earth sex, where our energies combine and we have full body orgasms"

 

girl "your crazy"

OR

girl "sounds good, how do you we that!?"

me "just read 5 books by mantak chia and you should be ready"

 

hahahahaha yeah right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

FUCK!

Is it possible to teach someone the microcosmic orbit then have cosmic sex in one hour? Or is cosmic sex something you have to work up to for months? Or does it not even exist at all in a blissful way, but more like a idealistic concept? Perhaps we shall see this weekend

 

The fact is that girls have like 10 times more sexual power than dudes! We are the bitches!!!!!!!!!!! They dont even have to learn these concepts for them to have cosmic sex. Do they just have ti know about the chakras, perhaps the orbit?

[ben]

My family have not been very accepting of my practise. A lot of people think it is strange how someone can go introverted for long periods of time. I find these periods of isolation to be very nourishing for my own practise but it is hard to do this when your sharing a house or living with people. I get comments like ,' it's weird for young man not to be socializing or chasing girls' etc. What people don't understand is that celibacy is very dynamic in Taoism and for me the periods where I have gone 'solo' have been deep explorations of sexual energy. Gotta cruise, bye ben.

[sean]

I rarely go full throttle with discussing the details of my practice and beliefs with people. When I interact with others I mainly seek rapport and so I generally make a strong effort to speak their language. So I might speak to a Christian entirely in Christian terms. In fact this is how I speak with my father, entirely within the framework of Christian mythology. I think if you are creative you can find the vocabulary within anyone's belief system, even completely different or even highly secular/materialistic worldviews, to almost covertly (it feels) discuss your beliefs and interests. I guess at heart I feel that real spiritual understanding is pre-verbal. Though if I disagree with a core belief underlying someone's language/symbols, I don't pander and can even be fairly antagonistic in an unstifled debate.

 

Sean.

[90_1494798740]

[BobD]

Again, I am lucky with my mother in that although she is a Christian, and more recently a Quaker, she is very open minded. I bought her a book that compared and contrasted Jesus and Buddha, quoting side by side from both and essentially equating them. I tend to find that anyone openminded enough, or at the risk of sounding snobbish , intelligent enough can recognise the common factors in most belief systems.

 

I agree that it can help to talk in the framework that they are used to, although that can require a grounding in your belief system and theirs.

 

There does come a point though where I just give up, and keep silent (especially with some people!)

[Trunk]

[sunshine]

Scrolling through this thread, people have mostly commented on how to mostly-smoothly communicate & relate to non-practioners.

 

That leaves a huge gap of:

Have you found others that you can relate to, on a regular basis, re: this stuff?  People that you can share the interest and conversation, practice maybe even?  This seems to me as really important, if its a big part of your life, to have at least a few friends where this is in the cool comfortable shared interest conversation zone.

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Yes Keith. I have friends I can turn to and talk about what I experience... we do not need to practice the same for that to be possible.

 

Nevertheless a forum likes this is MAJOR important to me, as I won't be able to get that many cool views anywhere else... and the people I meet here I would wish to be able to meet in person...

 

Harry

[freeform]

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Edited October 23, 2019 by freeform

[mbanu]

[Cameron]

I briefly joined that Shing Yi group I told you about and you also checked out(Kieth) We had some nice conversations about Qigong and cultivation. Really nice group and nice vibe but I had to decide between that and BJJ, and I decided to do BJJ.

 

Right now I am strongly thinking about doing Ken Cohen's 3 year correspondesne course. basically you study with Ken several times a year in Colorado and write papers. Sort of like a Qigong degree or something. That would be the next level for me.

 

I don't particulaly see any point in having a group of beginners together to talk about it for me the next level is just studying directly with a group or teacher that knows alot more than me.

 

Another Taoist group just opened up literally across the street from me. Teaching taoist martial arts and meditation. I may check it out when I have time.

 

And I drop into the local Zen center occasionally. they have one night a week where we do zazen and then drink tea and chat with eachother. it's all about zen not Taoism though.

[GrandTrinity]

Zen is not taoism? hahaha

 

"without idea of getting any credit for it" was the key point Confucios made. Without need for "fame or gain" I have heard it called. Its all about not taking credit for the teaching and being the student at the same time.

 

And less talking and more actions. All we do is talk!

 

When you TRY to teach someone something, you both FAIL. When learning takes place both teacher and student are enhanced. This, Buber would call an I-Thou encounter rather than I-it dialogue.

 

"Buber's writings about what he discovered by living life in relation to others have profoundly influenced all of us who are interested in interpersonal communication."

 

I think this dude's philosophy is on point here.

 

http://courses.washington.edu/spcmu/buber/

 

And I also like Keith's point that it it important to have people who you can regularly talk to who are on your level with all of this 100% and in real life. Finding that is not easy, but I am lucky to know at least a couple friends who are as interested in this stuff as I am. Thank god! Although nobody is 100% on your level! That would be impossible! No?

[Cameron]

Zen is Buddhism . It is taught within the context of Shakyamuni Budda's enlightenment and supposedly a direct lineage of master's back from Hui Neng, Bodhidharma back to Shakyamuni.

 

Of course, it is generally regarded that the Chinese(atleast in ancient times) didn't make much of a distinction between the two and would mix and match techniques as necissary.

 

I basically practice in this spirit.

[GrandTrinity]

According to that E-book I posted: Bodhidahrma the founder of zen studied the vajramusti Indian martial arts and yoga and combined with tai chi and taoism to make zen...that short e-book is a stellar read, and at the end it gives a great meditation too...Also talks about how to balance your eyes!

[Cameron]

There are all kinds of myths and legends about these guys. Is any of it true? Who knows.

 

Eric Yudelove said something that stuck in my mind years ago, " We can't roll the video footage".

 

But if that is your beleif sounds cool enough. I think Zen, martial arts and Taoism complement eachother nicely and fill in gaps to form a more complete system.

 

Explore!

[DustWalker]

My family have not been very accepting of my practise. A lot of people think it is strange how someone can go introverted for long periods of time. I find these periods of isolation to be very nourishing for my own practise but it is hard to do this when your sharing a house or living with people. I get comments like ,' it's weird for young man  not to be socializing or chasing girls' etc. What people don't understand is that celibacy is very dynamic in Taoism and for me the periods where I have gone 'solo' have been deep explorations of sexual energy. Gotta cruise, bye  ben.

7290[/snapback]

 

Welcome to the club. My mom thinks I'm mentally Ill!! She simply cannot understand that I am not insane despite viewing the world and its workings from an esoteric point of view instead of the mechanistic materialistic one that most people hold. She thinks these are the signs of me having a psychosis. I just wish I could expand her horizon a little bit. Make her understand. Yes, getting into metaphysics and spirituality have alienated me in many ways.

 

Got any suggestions to easing up her worries?