Goal of Cultivating Qi/Chi?

[Unconditioned]

This is a question, not a judgment so please try to answer without being defensive. My impresions are based on very limited experience with people that practice various cultivation schools.

 

I've had a hard time understanding the reason for cultivation of Qi. What is the essence of this cultivation?

 

I've seen a lot of reasons that seem to be self-serving such as being able to beat the snot out of someone, feel important about oneself, making money, etc.

 

I've also seen some reasons that seem to be self-sacrificing such as using energy to heal others, to be able to serve a cause, to defend/protect, etc.

 

But what is the end-goal of cultivating Qi? Is it related to the idea of liberation/enlightenment? Is the end goal defendant on the specific practice?

[Bruce]

What a great question! While I'm interested in qi cultivation for health reasons, my practice is decidedly Buddhist whether I want to call it that or not. Really interested to read the responses to this!

Edited February 17, 2009 by Bruce

[gendao]

I'm guessing that qi cultivation is more for immortality & emptiness meditation more for enlightenment?

[Aetherous]

I don't really believe in "qi". Qigong to me is more of a spiritual thing, where I call the purity (don't know a better word to call it) into my body...or I merge with it. I don't see meditation and qigong as separate things. Different practices achieve different effects, but we're always working with our nervous system and mind no matter what we're doing, so everything works towards the one goal in different ways.

 

For health purposes, I don't think qigong is all that effective. At least not for me. It can highlight blockages rather than quickly get rid of them. Some people will get seemingly miraculous effects and some will not, depending on their condition. My condition is pretty poor, so I need healing and harmonizing a lot more than getting additional energy.

 

I think running is the best thing for health.

 

The end goal of qigong is too far away to say...I suppose realization of Tao is just one stage, and then becoming (or re-becoming) Tao is another. What goes up must come down.

[Ya Mu]

This is a question, not a judgment so please try to answer without being defensive. My impresions are based on very limited experience with people that practice various cultivation schools.

 

I've had a hard time understanding the reason for cultivation of Qi. What is the essence of this cultivation?

 

I've seen a lot of reasons that seem to be self-serving such as being able to beat the snot out of someone, feel important about oneself, making money, etc.

 

I've also seen some reasons that seem to be self-sacrificing such as using energy to heal others, to be able to serve a cause, to defend/protect, etc.

 

But what is the end-goal of cultivating Qi? Is it related to the idea of liberation/enlightenment? Is the end goal defendant on the specific practice?

 

Short answer?

To merge with one's Higher Level self.

 

Longer answer?

From A Light Warrior's Guide to High Level Energy Healing:

"Qigong is more than simply a study of energy. In addition to being the most profound form of preventative medicine, the practice of Qigong is a way of life, a way of attaining our highest spiritual goals, and a way of attaining knowledge of who we really are and what we are supposed to be doing on this earth."

 

 

I don't really believe in "qi".

....

 

I think running is the best thing for health.

...

 

I don't not believe in qi. That is why I don't not use it every day in healing others.

 

Running is great until you get over 40-50 and find that the bodies joints have significantly deteriorated from the constant jar of pounding the pavement and arthritis sets in... that is, unless a person is practicing qigong running or running in soft sand or dirt.

[Sloppy Zhang]

There was a thread around here for a bit about qi circulation, qi gong, and all that other stuff, being useless. That when you sit in silent, emptiness meditation, those things happen in your body naturally. The problem is that subsequent generations focused on reproducing the effects within the body by focusing on those effects, instead of the emptiness meditation and stuff.

 

Which is quite an interesting way of looking at it!

 

Certainly qigong helps the body, as has been mentioned before, as a preventative measure. For fighting, being able to lengthen the amount of time someone can stay active, to be able to each anyone no matter of age, that must have been very important, especially in places like the Chen village where all you had was the family martial art to defend the village against attacks. So to be able to keep your fighting force well into old age, that must have sounded pretty good!

 

Then, I guess as a purely spiritual path.... it's just one of the ways you can go about it. In my opinion, you can go through silent meditation, have the stuff happen in the body, but not really pay attention to it, and just be that way. Or you can cultivate qi within the body, do stuff, and eventually work up to more intense emptiness meditation. I guess the end point is the same, it's just how you get there. But that's just my person opinion on the matter.

[Stigweard]

Firstly it should be noted that one should not seperate cultivating Qi from the cultivation of Jing and Shen. Jing, Qi and Shen are in fact one energy.

 

Cultivation of Qi is an integral part in the alchemical process leading toward the creation of the Sacred Immortal Medicine, or the Golden Elixir. With the creation of this elixir one is able to transcend one's biological destiny and become a Shien, a Heavenly Immortal. This is a state of spiritual immortality rather than physical immortality even thought the Golden Elixir does bestow upon its creator relative longevity.

 

I'm guessing that qi cultivation is more for immortality & emptiness meditation more for enlightenment?

 

Are you sure immortality and enlightenment are seperate things?

[idquest]

Here is a short esse on different goals of cultivation you might want to check out:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/Things-We-Donand...stem-t5664.html

[adam mizner]

Are you sure immortality and enlightenment are seperate things?

 

 

yes. they are not the same, and imortals are not imortal. very long life though

metta

adam

[goldisheavy]

This is a question, not a judgment so please try to answer without being defensive. My impresions are based on very limited experience with people that practice various cultivation schools.

 

I've had a hard time understanding the reason for cultivation of Qi. What is the essence of this cultivation?

 

I think the answer is the same as to this question:

 

"What the goal of having a job? Is having a job related to enlightenment?"

 

It's a tricky question. On one hand, having a job may be related and essential for enlightenment. On the other hand, it might be what's blocking your enlightenment from manifesting.

 

Energy is a mundane phenomenon and has the same utilities as other mundane phenomena. For example, using energy, you can maintain health, warmth, be able to process food better, need to eat less, and so forth. I wouldn't say any of this is necessary for enlightenment, but it can make things convenient and handy, especially if you are poor and cannot afford a thick robe or electricity.

 

One thing energy cannot do is to magically give you enlightenment by opening up some "chakra" in your body. Enlightenment is not something mechanical, like having a piston open in your body as if it was some engine or some such. Enlightenment is wisdom. It is seeing the big picture. It is being free from confusion regarding all phenomena. Enlightenment is a state of ultimate wishlessness where your actions are completely unnecessary but serve only as ornaments. Enlightenment is an insight into non-duality between having any amount of wishes and wishlessness. Enlightenment is transcending all possible mundane events. Enlightenment is understanding that there is no ultimate difference between mundane and non-mundane. And so on. None of this happens because you moved some energy from point A to point B.

 

Energy work is like holding down a job. You can be a carpenter or a plumber or a janitor, and you can get enlightened in all three cases, even though those jobs are all quite different from one another, except that they allow you a more pleasant time living in the meanwhile.

[seadog]

This is a question, not a judgment so please try to answer without being defensive. My impresions are based on very limited experience with people that practice various cultivation schools.

 

I've had a hard time understanding the reason for cultivation of Qi. What is the essence of this cultivation?

 

I've seen a lot of reasons that seem to be self-serving such as being able to beat the snot out of someone, feel important about oneself, making money, etc.

 

I've also seen some reasons that seem to be self-sacrificing such as using energy to heal others, to be able to serve a cause, to defend/protect, etc.

 

But what is the end-goal of cultivating Qi? Is it related to the idea of liberation/enlightenment? Is the end goal defendant on the specific practice?

I believe that qigong gives us the opportunity to take sometime to go within ourself.To explore our inner workings and focus on maintaing our physical spiritual and mental wellbeing.

When we cultivate Qi, are we not simply cultivating the life force that has been granted to us?

The means and methods we use to preserve and enhance this gift is a true reflection on how much we value our life and the lives of others.

 

I don't like being sick,I like to be healthy.

If I take the time to do some simple Qigong once or twice a day it helps to keep the ledger on the healthy side.

And as far as I can tell there is no such thing as an end-goal and enlightment is just a thought in our minds like a cloud in a blue sky.

[Sunya]

I believe that qigong gives us the opportunity to take sometime to go within ourself.To explore our inner workings and focus on maintaing our physical spiritual and mental wellbeing.

When we cultivate Qi, are we not simply cultivating the life force that has been granted to us?

The means and methods we use to preserve and enhance this gift is a true reflection on how much we value our life and the lives of others.

 

I don't like being sick,I like to be healthy.

If I take the time to do some simple Qigong once or twice a day it helps to keep the ledger on the healthy side.

And as far as I can tell there is no such thing as an end-goal and enlightment is just a thought in our minds like a cloud in a blue sky.

 

 

in my opinion

 

to do Qi Gong strictly for health reasons is a waste, death will come to us all, impermanence is the nature of life and reality.

[goldisheavy]

Running is great until you get over 40-50 and find that the bodies joints have significantly deteriorated from the constant jar of pounding the pavement and arthritis sets in... that is, unless a person is practicing qigong running or running in soft sand or dirt.

 

You are doing it wrong then. Most likely this is because you are heel stomping, which is a no-no in running, but many even olympic runners do it.

 

www.posetech.com

 

Unfortunately posetech has too much hoo-haa bullshit on it, when the gist is simple. You land on your foot right under your center of mass on the ball of your foot. If you incorrectly heel stomp, the landing happens ahead of your center of mass, which has a negative effect of being a speed-bump that your center of mass has to overcome, besides the fact that heel is not "designed" to land on during running.

 

When you land on the ball of your foot right under your center of mass, you then allow your body to fall forward under the weight of gravity, and pull the free foot back under, land on the ball under your center of mass, fall forward again, and so on. When you execute this it feels like you are gliding along the pavement. Your center of mass should be going along a straight line, instead of bouncing up and down. The heel during the landing should ALMOST touch the ground. In other words, to an outsider it might look like you are almost landing on the middle of your foot, but your weight is always on the ball of your foot. This allows for a natural spring effect to preserve your joints' health and to eliminate the speed bump from your running.

 

If you haven't been using this technique, when you first start, it is murder on the calf muscles that aren't used to it. But bear with it. Within a month or two you will acclimate and no longer notice any discomfort.

 

If you run correctly, there is no pain at all! You can run till you are 120.

Edited February 18, 2009 by goldisheavy

[bukejian]

I want superhuman powers!

[goldisheavy]

I want superhuman powers!

 

Then the identity of a human will not suit your needs.

[Ya Mu]

You are doing it wrong then. Most likely this is because you are heel stomping, which is a no-no in running, but many even olympic runners do it.

 

www.posetech.com

 

Unfortunately posetech has too much hoo-haa bullshit on it, when the gist is simple. You land on your foot right under your center of mass on the ball of your foot. If you incorrectly heel stomp, the landing happens ahead of your center of mass, which has a negative effect of being a speed-bump that your center of mass has to overcome, besides the fact that heel is not "designed" to land on during running.

 

When you land on the ball of your foot right under your center of mass, you then allow your body to fall forward under the weight of gravity, and pull the free foot back under, land on the ball under your center of mass, fall forward again, and so on. When you execute this it feels like you are gliding along the pavement. Your center of mass should be going along a straight line, instead of bouncing up and down. The heel during the landing should ALMOST touch the ground. In other words, to an outsider it might look like you are almost landing on the middle of your foot, but your weight is always on the ball of your foot. This allows for a natural spring effect to preserve your joints' health and to eliminate the speed bump from your running.

 

If you haven't been using this technique, when you first start, it is murder on the calf muscles that aren't used to it. But bear with it. Within a month or two you will acclimate and no longer notice any discomfort.

 

If you run correctly, there is no pain at all! You can run till you are 120.

 

I really wasn't speaking of myself but the over 100 closer to 200 clients I have seen in clinic with injuries and arthritis from long-term running. Personally I practice qigong running which does utilize the method you mention along with a more horizontal with less vertical motion.

But good advice you give. I still think generally that running in sand or soft dirt is much better than pavement running.

[Squatting Monkey]

to do Qi Gong strictly for health reasons is a waste, death will come to us all, impermanence is the nature of life and reality.

 

But why not ease into old age rather than fall flat on our faces.

[idquest]

in my opinion

to do Qi Gong strictly for health reasons is a waste, death will come to us all, impermanence is the nature of life and reality.

 

You forget about quality of life. People can be alive but so sick that you wouldn't call that meaninful life.

 

As usual, it is not black and white but has all colours of spectrum. Qigong can help specifically in quality of life.

[Unconditioned]

Wow, quite a range of reasons. Thank you everyone, I think I'm starting to get a sense for why

 

I especially like the job analogy, good stuff.

[soundhunter]

I think the answer is the same as to this question:

 

"What the goal of having a job? Is having a job related to enlightenment?"

 

It's a tricky question. On one hand, having a job may be related and essential for enlightenment. On the other hand, it might be what's blocking your enlightenment from manifesting.

 

Energy is a mundane phenomenon and has the same utilities as other mundane phenomena. For example, using energy, you can maintain health, warmth, be able to process food better, need to eat less, and so forth. I wouldn't say any of this is necessary for enlightenment, but it can make things convenient and handy, especially if you are poor and cannot afford a thick robe or electricity.

 

One thing energy cannot do is to magically give you enlightenment by opening up some "chakra" in your body. Enlightenment is not something mechanical, like having a piston open in your body as if it was some engine or some such. Enlightenment is wisdom. It is seeing the big picture. It is being free from confusion regarding all phenomena. Enlightenment is a state of ultimate wishlessness where your actions are completely unnecessary but serve only as ornaments. Enlightenment is an insight into non-duality between having any amount of wishes and wishlessness. Enlightenment is transcending all possible mundane events. Enlightenment is understanding that there is no ultimate difference between mundane and non-mundane. And so on. None of this happens because you moved some energy from point A to point B.

 

Energy work is like holding down a job. You can be a carpenter or a plumber or a janitor, and you can get enlightened in all three cases, even though those jobs are all quite different from one another, except that they allow you a more pleasant time living in the meanwhile.

 

Wow, I like this description *thumbs up*

 

Now I'm a very new Taoist and I'm not particularly interested in energy work, gaining powers, fighting ability etc, so you could say I'm a lightweight. I had no idea about all of this energy work until I began to read here, and I've read some other stuff now. It's not particularly interesting to me, I'm more interested in feeling the energies already in me, feeling them around me, and learning to flow better with them instead of trying so hard and struggling with them in life as an average human being living a fairly average life. I assume that once people become aware of all these energies and learn to move with them it's fun to play with them an manipulate them, I'm assuming this is why some people get into it, if I did this would be why, I'm not pursuing any major spiritual "goals" other than to make peace with being human, and to live in peace with other humans.

[gendao]

Firstly it should be noted that one should not seperate cultivating Qi from the cultivation of Jing and Shen. Jing, Qi and Shen are in fact one energy.

 

Cultivation of Qi is an integral part in the alchemical process leading toward the creation of the Sacred Immortal Medicine, or the Golden Elixir. With the creation of this elixir one is able to transcend one's biological destiny and become a Shien, a Heavenly Immortal. This is a state of spiritual immortality rather than physical immortality even thought the Golden Elixir does bestow upon its creator relative longevity.

Are you sure immortality and enlightenment are seperate things?

No, I'm not sure, as I have achieved neither, lol..

 

And by "immortal," I am referring to attainment of the yang light body (not an undying physical person - which I don't know has ever been dccumented before).

 

 

Here's another take, though. Perhaps we could imagine ourselves as water. With low energy and frequency, we condense into rigid ice. We take hard form and become distinctly separate from one another like unique snowflakes. But when we increase our energy and vibration, we phase-change more liquid, gaseous and plasmic states. Like a snowflake melting and vaporizing on a hot stove, "we" no longer exists as such as we lose form and "evaporate" into the void. "We" was only our form. Once that is lost, "we" become formless and delocalized. This phasic "evaporation" is what we then refer to as "alchemical ascension."

Edited February 20, 2009 by vortex

[Unconditioned]

Wow, I like this description *thumbs up*

 

Now I'm a very new Taoist and I'm not particularly interested in energy work, gaining powers, fighting ability etc, so you could say I'm a lightweight. I had no idea about all of this energy work until I began to read here, and I've read some other stuff now. It's not particularly interesting to me, I'm more interested in feeling the energies already in me, feeling them around me, and learning to flow better with them instead of trying so hard and struggling with them in life as an average human being living a fairly average life. I assume that once people become aware of all these energies and learn to move with them it's fun to play with them an manipulate them, I'm assuming this is why some people get into it, if I did this would be why, I'm not pursuing any major spiritual "goals" other than to make peace with being human, and to live in peace with other humans.

 

For what it's worth, I'm in a similar place. I had known about the concept of chi but saw it as an obstacle towards figuring out what this life is all about. I'm not after special powers or training for the UFC or being able to cast spells, etc. But if you think about it, trying to exclude something to get to something else is no different than clinging to something to get something out of it - it's just grasping in another direction (against vs. for).

 

So my personal goal is just to learn what life is or is not and to do it at the most personal level. I'm alive so I figured why not start with knowing what "I" am. It's all been downhill from there and Tao Bums has been my favorite place to talk about the whole thing.

[dwai]

This is a question, not a judgment so please try to answer without being defensive. My impresions are based on very limited experience with people that practice various cultivation schools.

 

I've had a hard time understanding the reason for cultivation of Qi. What is the essence of this cultivation?

 

I've seen a lot of reasons that seem to be self-serving such as being able to beat the snot out of someone, feel important about oneself, making money, etc.

 

I've also seen some reasons that seem to be self-sacrificing such as using energy to heal others, to be able to serve a cause, to defend/protect, etc.

 

But what is the end-goal of cultivating Qi? Is it related to the idea of liberation/enlightenment? Is the end goal defendant on the specific practice?

 

Qi is cultivated in order to go back to the source. In order to go back to the source, one has to re-discover it within. In order to rediscover this (Te), one has to first learn to feel Qi, store/restore Qi in the Dan tien and eventually reconnect with the Te.

 

The Te then will connect with the Tao. What is there without Qi? Qi animates everthing in this creation.

[Unconditioned]

What is there without Qi? Qi animates everthing in this creation.

 

I agree, however, the idea about Qi, experiences with it, memories of it, the feeling of Qi in our bodies, etc. Are just that, sensations, memories, etc. All movement comes from it's stillness but once we solidify our ideas about it it is no longer the moving flowing thing, it is the static idea.

 

I think it's important to understand that, otherwise it can be easy to fall into the trap of working with energy for the pleasure of it and adding layers that will need to be 'passed through' to merge with the Tao.

 

I think that's all implied in your response but felt like 'running my mouth' for a bit