Why does maya exist?

[TTT]

Why does maya exists? It is an relatively unimportant question in spirituality, but

still I would like to hear your opinions about it. I know it just exists and we

should embrace the opportunity for enlightenment.

 

I have never found any more rational answer for this question in all the spiritual literature. Beneath is the answer of Swami Sivenanda, as I said, this answer is sufficient, but not rational. My (ego) mind enjoys a rational explantion as well. Is there maybe another explanation of which you are aware of?

 

Ram: Why God created this world? When did Karma begin? Why should there be ignorance

at all? When did man take his first birth? How can ignorance come in the Atma who is of the nature

of Satchidananda? Which is more powerful whether Prarabdha (destiny) or Purushartha

(self-effort)? and many such other questions are Atiprasnas, transcendental questions. Such

questions do not help in any way ones progress in the spiritual path. The result is mere lingual

warfare and beating about the bush with no substantial result. Words are finite. Language is

imperfect. One can get a solution to such questions only when one transcends the three states and

the three Gunas, and rests in ones own essential Svarupa, through constant and protracted

Nididhyasan and attains Dridhabhumi or Yogarudha (established in Yoga) state. The frail, finite

intellect that is conditioned in time, space, causation cannot peep into the beyond. You will get

answers for these questions when you get knowledge of the Self.

All doubts are rent asunder, the three knots are broken when one attains Brahmic Sthiti or

Sahaja-Avastha (natural-state) or the native state of pristine purity and glory. People generally rack

their brains and waste their energy when such doubts assail them. This is a trick of the mind to

delude the aspirant and swerve them from the path of divine contemplation. What is wanted is

rigorous Sadhana, burning Vairagya (dispassion), strong Mumukshutva (desire for liberation) and

sustained discrimination.

Edited February 18, 2009 by TTT

[Bruce]

Are you refering to maya as illusion, ie the opposite of the absolute? If so, I think that opposites have to exist in the language of any religious philosophy. Maybe I misunderstood the question totally.

[Apech]

The clever answer would be that strictly speaking maya doesn't exist - in that it is an illusory projection or ignorant misunderstanding of the nature of reality. It isn't the opposite to the absolute because if such a thing were possible then the absolute would not be absolute but partial.

 

I know this doesn't help with the question - given that we do experience maya and even if it is illusory - why does this happen? I'm not sure that a rational answer which does not point to the need to gain a higher level of understanding/awareness is possible. It would be like asking a truly ignorant person to explain themselves - which they cannot because then they would not be truly ignorant.

 

I await other posters for enlightenment.

 

[Bruce]

The clever answer would be that strictly speaking maya doesn't exist - in that it is an illusory projection or ignorant misunderstanding of the nature of reality. It isn't the opposite to the absolute because if such a thing were possible then the absolute would not be absolute but partial.

 

I know this doesn't help with the question - given that we do experience maya and even if it is illusory - why does this happen? I'm not sure that a rational answer which does not point to the need to gain a higher level of understanding/awareness is possible. It would be like asking a truly ignorant person to explain themselves - which they cannot because then they would not be truly ignorant.

 

I await other posters for enlightenment.

 

Of course you are correct, from a non-dualism standpoint. That would've been the clever answer, as you said. From a philosophical language perspective though, it can't be explained without first putting it in dualistic terms, in order to set the stage for the non-dualistic teaching.

[NeutralWire]

I don't believe literally in maya as illusion -- but apepch7 is right, this is just the clever answer. It's still a good question -- 'Why should there be ignorance at all?'

 

Unfortunately it comes down to one or two other good old philosophical chestnuts that have no definite answer -- why is there something rather than nothing? That's a good one. Also, is anything gained by the whole universe being enlightened? That's another. In the 'Kybalion' they say that, when asked why God created the universe, Hermes pursed his lips and remained silent.

 

That much said, behind human karma in particular there certainly does seem to be some kind of story -- many stories, and all obscure! Myself, I say that as a result of the universe something is occuring, but I don't go further than that! I hope this isn't a lawyer's answer...

 

Did anyone ever read Michael Morgan? Someone was telling me about him. He writes about God, and about his experimental nature in creating the universe. Haven't quite got around to reading that yet... but don't some channelled works talk about this?

 

Bill Mistele claims he had certain questions about the nature of the universe which have been answered, but he won't say what the questions are, never mind the answers.

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

[dwai]

The Maya and Karma Conundrum

 

The link above points to an article I'd written while back, on this matter. Perhaps it will add to this interesting discussion...

[TTT]

Ok thanks, indeed why should there be something instead of nothing?

God is without cause, omnipotent etc, but why indeed would he have created maya?

 

Some say you only dream this maya, it doesn't exists, or you will understand when you

merge with the Divine, but indeed I think there could be other answers than these.

 

Right now I just believe I want to know the reason of the existense of maya as an answer for the mind,

because the mind always seeks cause and effect. I hope it will just vanish when I reach my englightenment, without reason without cause : )

[thelerner]

It gives me a place to keep my stuff.

 

 

M.

[NeutralWire]

It gives me a place to keep my stuff.

 

lol

 

Plus it provides you with the stuff too. How's that for value, maya is underrated.

[Bruce]

lol

 

Plus it provides you with the stuff too. How's that for value, maya is underrated.

[CarsonZi]

Maya exists because humans have free will.

 

[Apech]

'Why should there be ignorance at all?'

 

That is such a great question.

[NeutralWire]

It is a great question. Now personally I think CarsonZi is onto something -- free will.

 

(Thinking about Freeform here on another thread...)

 

Suppose you obtain 'enlightenment', what has actually changed?

 

Has there been some improvement in the state of the universe, or not? This is something I was never able to comprehend.

 

After all, if 'maya exists because of human free will', it is natural to ask, what is the so-great purpose behind the fact that humans are given this 'ignorance' which they must dispel? What is gained? Freeform himself seemed to feel that in a certain way, nothing at all was gained...

 

But if maya is a purely human phenomenon, and we are here to dispel it, what is 'gained' by that dispelling? And if nothing is gained, why must it be done?

 

Why is it so important that human free will be used to gain wisdom? What changes? It seems to be 'good' when we are wise, 'evil' when we aren't -- but what has 'God', who already has all and whose portion could never increase, to gain by such a plan?

 

 

Am I helping here? No, I thought not... I agree that as you get closer to 'it', you don't worry so much, and maybe this in some way is the point. But why? lol

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

[Bruce]

'Why should there be ignorance at all?'

 

That is such a great question.

Why should there be poverty, war, hatred, and all the other ills of the world? Too bad we're not all Buddhas, eh. So long as there are humans we'll have these things.

[NeutralWire]

So long as there are humans we'll have these things.

 

... and why?

[Bruce]

Well predictably, I like the Buddhist explaination of it. Good 'ol ignorance. Pretty much the same as Maya, just called Mara. No need for me to explain it. I think 'ol Buddha did a pretty good job.

[NeutralWire]

No need for me to explain it. I think 'ol Buddha did a pretty good job.

 

Remind me what he said again, on ignorance/maya, and why it's there, and how we are to dispel it? I'm rusty.

[doc benway]

Why should we expect there to be an answer to such a question?

If there are answers, how do we know that they are correct?

Great question, by the way.

[Bruce]

My take instead of repeating the 4 Noble Truths and all those details (which I'd just have to look up myself, lol).

 

What we see in any given moment is based on our perception, not what's really there. Our perception is based on our conditioning. That's what makes the illusion. Take away the conditioning and all our preconceived notions and we see what really is.

 

There's an old Zen saying: Before practicing, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers. After some practice, mountains are no longer mountains and rivers are no longer rivers. Only after you've seen that they aren't can you say that mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers.

 

Understand?

[NeutralWire]

What we see in any given moment is based on our perception, not what's really there.

 

That is a great definition of maya! But it doesn't give the reason for it... why is this conditioning there in the first place?

[Bruce]

That is a great definition of maya! But it doesn't give the reason for it... why is this conditioning there in the first place?

What was your original face before you were born?

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

I dunno, 'cause we're human?

[NeutralWire]

What was your original face before you were born?

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

No need to resist! Are you saying that remembering this original face would remove my current state of conditioning?

[Bruce]

No need to resist! Are you saying that remembering this original face would remove my current state of conditioning?

That's the theory mate. I'm still looking for mine.

[NeutralWire]

QUOTE(NeutralWire @ Feb 18 2009, 10:18 PM)

 

No need to resist! Are you saying that remembering this original face would remove my current state of conditioning?

 

That's the theory mate. I'm still looking for mine.

 

Well before you said there was no need to explain, because Buddha did such a good job...?

 

I'm only asking what he said.

 

Why have ignorance only then to undo the ignorance? Is there a reason for the ignorance being present? Does nature work without reasons?

 

I think that 'Why is there ignorance at all?' is a great question as apepch7 said!

 

'So ignorance can be overcome' appears to be the answer -- and yet nothing seems to be gained by this, on your view, save to return to the situation that was in place before birth! -- surely the world would be equally enlightened then, whether a person who became enlightened was born or not?

 

To me it seems that the world is gradually being transformed in some way by wisdom achieved. But what is gained by that? I don't know!

 

lol

 

NW

[Bruce]

Yep. It's a good question, but like someone said above, it's probably unanswerable. Maybe we just have to go with the obvious: it exists, and there are spiritual paths that address it.

 

You know, we're the lucky ones. At least we've stopped long enough in our confused lives to recognize it and to want to do something about it. I bet most never give it more than a fleeting thought.