Are KAP and AYP compatible practices?

[growant]

Wondering- is Advanced Yoga Practices, particularly spinal breathing, compatible with KAP practice (I think they do some microcosmic orbit there)? Anyone practice both?

[phore]

Edited February 20, 2009 by phore

[Hawk Over Water]

Wondering- is Advanced Yoga Practices, particularly spinal breathing, compatible with KAP practice (I think they do some microcosmic orbit there)? Anyone practice both?

 

I practiced AYP for just over a year, then moved on to KAP when I developed Chi sickness.

 

In AYP the energy is run up and down the spine between the base center and the "third eye" center. There is no Microcosmic Orbit practiced. There is no work done on the Crown center - not directly anyway. All experiences are regarded as "scenery" to be largely ignored. Everything regarding Chakras, meridians etc is regarded as "under the hood", also to be largely ignored.

 

Personally I would say that AYP and KAP are not compatible. In fact in many ways the systems are almost opposite to each other. From my experience, with all due respect to Yogani and all those that practice AYP, I would have to say that, in my personal opinion, AYP is flawed.

 

 

Way

[CarsonZi]

Wondering- is Advanced Yoga Practices, particularly spinal breathing, compatible with KAP practice (I think they do some microcosmic orbit there)? Anyone practice both?

Hi growant,

 

I practice AYP, and have for some time now. I gave up many other practices to stick (almost) solely with the AYPractices. From what I know of KAP and from what other AYP practitioners who have done KAP have said, I too conclude that they are not the most compatible. The reason being the obvious potential for kundalini overload. AYP has some pretty effective kundalini stimulating practices (SBP, Nauli Kriya, Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka, Bastrika Pranayam etc etc) and combining these practices with OTHER kundalini stimulating practices is going to make it very difficult to control the amount of kundalini ripping through your nervous system at any given point. And if your system is not sufficiently purified before this, you could find yourself with some pretty uncomfortable kundalini overload symptoms.

 

Hawk Over Water: Why would you say that AYP is flawed? Flawed for you perhaps but is it necessary to say this? AYP got me off a 4 year 90mg daily dose of methadone in 10 weeks without ANY withdrawals. Have a read through some literature on currently medically accepted downdose times for methadone and I think you will see that this a medical miracle. And that is only physically what it did for me, I haven't even got into the spiritual aspects so.....To say AYP is flawed is a pretty harsh judgement and may turn people who could benefit greatly from the AYP system away from trying it for themselves. I hope we can all refrain from bashing other systems just because we don't personally resonate with them. I don't personally resonate with many of the Oriental practices/religions/philosophies.....but I don't go around telling people that the Tao (or any other) system is "flawed". I just don't resonate with it and I keep that to myself so as not to throw anyone else off their particular path. I hope you can do the same. Much respect for all.

 

Love,

Carson

Edited February 20, 2009 by CarsonZi

[Hawk Over Water]

 

Hawk Over Water: Why would you say that AYP is flawed? Flawed for you perhaps but is it necessary to say this? AYP got me off a 4 year 90mg daily dose of methadone in 10 weeks without ANY withdrawals. Have a read through some literature on currently medically accepted downdose times for methadone and I think you will see that this a medical miracle. And that is only physically what it did for me, I haven't even got into the spiritual aspects so.....To say AYP is flawed is a pretty harsh judgement and may turn people who could benefit greatly from the AYP system away from trying it for themselves. I hope we can all refrain from bashing other systems just because we don't personally resonate with them. I don't personally resonate with many of the Oriental practices/religions/philosophies.....but I don't go around telling people that the Tao (or any other) system is "flawed". I just don't resonate with it and I keep that to myself so as not to throw anyone else off their particular path. I hope you can do the same. Much respect for all.

 

Love,

Carson

 

I can only repeat what I already said -

 

"From my experience, with all due respect to Yogani and all those that practice AYP, I would have to say that, in my personal opinion, AYP is flawed."

 

No one has to take any notice of my opinion, but that's what it is. I'm not saying that I am an expert or anything.

 

AYP is an experiment in "Kundalini for the masses". Yogani has stated as much, and it is in the process of change. I am happy for you that you were able to use AYP to cure an addiction, that's great. AYP has many powerful techniques, that's for certain. I am sure many people get along fine on it. But I know that more than a few have had problems with it. I noticed a recent thread on the AYP forum by a long time AYP practitioner, with a long term problem that he solved by practicing outside of the AYP box.

 

So, although I don't want to ruffle anyone feathers, I can only give my honest opinion.

[Aetherous]

AYP has many powerful techniques, that's for certain. I am sure many people get along fine on it. But I know that more than a few have had problems with it.

 

This is very true.

 

It was kind of strange to watch over the years. People would come to the AYP forums with problems, and it'd be somewhat ignored. The advice given was to repeat the same old thing, "Self pace" etc. And then in another topic people would go on and on about how AYP solved kundalini syndrome and is perfectly safe. But no actual problems were ever solved as far as I know, and at least for myself AYP gave me horrible effects. I wasn't able to sit cross legged for a minute without becoming all ungrounded, and I developed some not so fun health issues which still follow me to this day.

 

I don't see saying this as bashing AYP. People should give it a really good shot if they feel led to it. It's just not for everyone and people should know that.

[CarsonZi]

I can only repeat what I already said -

 

"From my experience, with all due respect to Yogani and all those that practice AYP, I would have to say that, in my personal opinion, AYP is flawed."

 

No one has to take any notice of my opinion, but that's what it is. I'm not saying that I am an expert or anything.

 

AYP is an experiment in "Kundalini for the masses". Yogani has stated as much, and it is in the process of change. I am happy for you that you were able to use AYP to cure an addiction, that's great. AYP has many powerful techniques, that's for certain. I am sure many people get along fine on it. But I know that more than a few have had problems with it. I noticed a recent thread on the AYP forum by a long time AYP practitioner, with a long term problem that he solved by practicing outside of the AYP box.

 

So, although I don't want to ruffle anyone feathers, I can only give my honest opinion.

 

I can only re-ask what I already asked; "Why would you say that AYP is flawed?" (No system is all-inclusive for everyone. [and AYP doesn't claim to be] There will always be people who need to go "outside the system" [any system] to solve certain problems) So again I ask; "Why would YOU say that AYP is flawed?"

 

Love,

Carson

 

P.S> I've heard Yogani say that AYP is an experiment in how much spiritual information can be transferred through writing alone, but never heard him say that AYP is an experiment in "Kundalini for the masses".

[CarsonZi]

Hi Scott,

 

Were you ever practicing AYP strictly on it's own? I remember you practicing AYP and Kunlun I think simultaneously but just curious as too how much of a shot you gave AYP by itself....just asking.

 

Love,

Carson

 

P.S> There have been many Kundalini overload cases that have shown up and been solved by AYP....Ananda is one I can think of off the top of my head.

Edited February 20, 2009 by CarsonZi

[Aetherous]

Yes I practiced only AYP for about a year and a half to 2 years solely...then I switched to awareness watching awareness meditation, which made my negative symptoms calm down. Then after like a year I started Kunlun.

[Guest sykkelpump]

This is very true.

 

It was kind of strange to watch over the years. People would come to the AYP forums with problems, and it'd be somewhat ignored. The advice given was to repeat the same old thing, "Self pace" etc. And then in another topic people would go on and on about how AYP solved kundalini syndrome and is perfectly safe. But no actual problems were ever solved as far as I know, and at least for myself AYP gave me horrible effects. I wasn't able to sit cross legged for a minute without becoming all ungrounded, and I developed some not so fun health issues which still follow me to this day.

 

I don't see saying this as bashing AYP. People should give it a really good shot if they feel led to it. It's just not for everyone and people should know that.

 

Just curious Scotty,I recently read a post where you said you did not belive in chi,and that you thought running was the best for health.So I get the impression that you really havent had much experience with chi since you dont belive in it.And then I read here that you have had some bad chi eperiences with AYP.I get confused?

 

I would like to add that I think the fastest and best is to use the meditation from ayp twice a day.Finishing it with kapalabhati each time.and also doing spring forest qi gong active exercises 2 times a day.From everything I have tried This would be a killer combination I really would recommand.Spinal breathing I would not reccomand to anyone before they have done so much meditation that you can feel sexual energy moving freely in the spine.That is my opinion from earlier,after making my spine blocked after forcing exeercises

Edited February 21, 2009 by sykkelpump

[Aetherous]

Just curious Scotty,I recently read a post where you said you did not belive in chi,and that you thought running was the best for health.So I get the impression that you really havent had much experience with chi since you dont belive in it.And then I read here that you have had some bad chi eperiences with AYP.I get confused?

 

Yes I don't believe in some "energy" that people store in the belly to shoot out of their hands...in my experience it doesn't work quite like that, and what does work is at this point kind of indescribable by me...but best experienced first hand and not gained from books or whatever low level teachers tell you.

 

In my experience, running is better for your overall health than qigong. Qigong to me is more spiritual than anything. But miraculous things can happen to your health as a result of such a path. And I'm just at a bad stage so perhaps I'm biased.

[Guest sykkelpump]

Yes I don't believe in some "energy" that people store in the belly to shoot out of their hands...in my experience it doesn't work quite like that, and what does work is at this point kind of indescribable by me...but best experienced first hand and not gained from books or whatever low level teachers tell you.

 

In my experience, running is better for your overall health than qigong. Qigong to me is more spiritual than anything. But miraculous things can happen to your health as a result of such a path. And I'm just at a bad stage so perhaps I'm biased.

 

Ok Scotty,I understand.Wish you good luck further,if you stay with one meditation that stops your mind you will eventually belive more in chi and its power.

[Aetherous]

[Sunya]

the only way I can see AYP being flawed is if too much energy gets caught up in the head, but maybe the bhandas [locks] are meant to prevent that? not sure. i did AYP for a while, just the spinal breathing not the advanced exercises, and had no issues. but it is my opinion that the Chinese practices, compared to the Hindu ones, are generally more safe and grounded. KAP seems to mix the two systems and seems to work quite well for those who have tried.

[growant]

I have been doing AYP off and on for a year and a few months. I find that the practice, particularly after not emitting seed for a few weeks, is more pleasurable than any practice I've ever tried, and i've tried many over the years. It can feel SOOOOO good. I also love how incredibly quiet and still my mind can become and remain from the practice at times. There have definitely been times and days when the highlight is my AYP practice. I asked about KAP because I'm thinking about trying it as I like to learn new things, Santiago sounds like he knows what he's talking about, and there are, I believe, some different practices taught in the first and later levels that I am interested in.

 

Also, AYP, if done full-out (all the practices and components) can be time consuming, so if I can get the same bang for half the buck, that'd be cool.

 

The only problems I've ever had from AYP were a little excess kundalini when adding on new practices too quickly- this was easily remedied by taking a short break and approaching new levels/components more gradually, i.e., self-pacing.

[Hawk Over Water]

the only way I can see AYP being flawed is if too much energy gets caught up in the head, but maybe the bhandas [locks] are meant to prevent that? not sure. i did AYP for a while, just the spinal breathing not the advanced exercises, and had no issues. but it is my opinion that the Chinese practices, compared to the Hindu ones, are generally more safe and grounded. KAP seems to mix the two systems and seems to work quite well for those who have tried.

 

Actually, I think you will find that the two bandas, mula and uddiyana, used in spinal breathing have the effect of directing energy up from the base into the head.

 

I think one of the major drawbacks of AYP is a lack of proper help when things go wrong. It is great that all the lessons are free etc., but there is nothing like advice from someone that knows you and knows what they are talking about, that can diagnose your problem and give you pointers of how to alter your practice. The AYP forum is quite active, but most of the advice given to people is pretty much a repetition of the standard replies along "the party line", which are "Self pace", "pay little or no attention to Scenery", and "we here at AYP, do not worry ourselves with "things under the hood"". I think Scotty had a good point about lack of help in a previous post. Yogani does not seem to like to be emailed directly, preferring people to post any problems in the forum. That's understandable - he must get a lot. But the help in the forum, though well intentioned, is often not much help when things get bad.

[Sunya]

I have been doing AYP off and on for a year and a few months. I find that the practice, particularly after not emitting seed for a few weeks, is more pleasurable than any practice I've ever tried, and i've tried many over the years. It can feel SOOOOO good. I also love how incredibly quiet and still my mind can become and remain from the practice at times. There have definitely been times and days when the highlight is my AYP practice. I asked about KAP because I'm thinking about trying it as I like to learn new things, Santiago sounds like he knows what he's talking about, and there are, I believe, some different practices taught in the first and later levels that I am interested in.

 

Also, AYP, if done full-out (all the practices and components) can be time consuming, so if I can get the same bang for half the buck, that'd be cool.

 

The only problems I've ever had from AYP were a little excess kundalini when adding on new practices too quickly- this was easily remedied by taking a short break and approaching new levels/components more gradually, i.e., self-pacing.

 

bang for the buck? AYP is free, all the info is on the site. KAP will cost you 200$ per level or maybe more, not sure. but you do get personal guidance and the teachers send out energy which may help you. KAP also has a lot more practices than AYP, i'm not sure how one would integrate all of them

[Mal]

I think one of the major drawbacks of AYP is a lack of proper help when things go wrong.

 

That seems a reasonable sumation. This

in my personal opinion, AYP is flawed.

Way

seems to mean that the majority of people, if not all of them, practicing AYP would be doomed to failure by following a flawed method.

 

Is that what you meant?

[Hawk Over Water]

That seems a reasonable sumation. This seems to mean that the majority of people, if not all of them, practicing AYP would be doomed to failure by following a flawed method.

 

Is that what you meant?

 

Hi Mal,

 

That's a very good and interesting question. Actually, I suppose it depends on what you recognize as success. There is no doubt that the exercises in AYP are effective, and I would not say that I failed as such. I would think that the majority of long time practitioners actually discover that "the guru is in you" and come to a point that they follow what that guru tells them, and alter their practice rather than trying to stick with straight AYP. I do not regret the time that I put in with AYP. I am very glad that I discovered KAP though, as I got to the point that I couldn't really practice anything at all!

 

BTW - I agree with Growant that the effects of practice can feel soooo good. That's probably why it took me a while before I could admit to myself that it was actually f**king me up, not matter how much I cut back.

[Mal]

That's probably why it took me a while before I could admit to myself that it was actually f**king me up, not matter how much I cut back.

 

Cool, sort of like the (in)famous red phoenix. Just thinking about it (i.e. writing this) and I can feel it circulating in my brain. Cool and annoying

[Yoda]

Cool and annoying