What practical things can we do to facilitate interfaith harmony?

[Stigweard]

Question to the panel:

 

What practical things can we do to facilitate interfaith harmony?

 

How would you have answered?

[dwai]

Question to the panel:

 

What practical things can we do to facilitate interfaith harmony?

 

How would you have answered?

 

To facilitate interfaith harmony, we have to first ensure that there is mutual respect between the faiths. Without this, there can be no harmony.

 

This is hard though...but is what is needed.

I will give an example in the case of Interfaith Dialog between Christians, Moslems and Hindus (in the second most populous nation in the world) --

 

For a Christian or a Moslem to respect the faith of a Hindu:

 

* means having to accept and respect the fact that the Hindu worships his deities in the form of Idols.

* means having to refrain from proselytizing, since mutual respect would mean acceptance that the other faith(s) is also a valid way to connect with the divine

* mutual respect would imply that some faiths' insistence on their exclusivity would have to be discarded, since if you respect another faith, that would mean you accept it as another valid way to connect with the divine

[Wayfarer64]

Make no preconceptions... As I wrote else where - it is difficult to tell if yr laundry is dry if you check it with wet hands... Pre-conditions, and pre-conceptions get in the way of new knowledge...

[CarsonZi]

Question to the panel:

 

What practical things can we do to facilitate interfaith harmony?

 

How would you have answered?

 

Don't speak when you are angry.

 

[ralis]

Humans need to rid themselves of religion and experience the universe as it truly is! Religion was created by the primate need to control others through fear and superstition.

 

ralis

[dwai]

Humans need to rid themselves of religion and experience the universe as it truly is! Religion was created by the primate need to control others through fear and superstition.

 

ralis

 

not true of all religions (especially those which follow Dharma traditions)

[Stigweard]

[goldisheavy]

Question to the panel:

 

What practical things can we do to facilitate interfaith harmony?

 

How would you have answered?

 

It's impossible. Some doctrines are in conflict and there is no way to create harmony between them.

 

You can create harmony between PEOPLE, but never between faiths (which is to say doctrines). The doctrines we inherit historically will always and forever be in conflict. Islam is in conflict with many religions, especially those which are not "of the book", but really with all of them to some extent. Christianity is often in conflict, doctrinally, with others. Evangelism is something many people really dislike. That's a conflict right there.

 

But PEOPLE (as opposed to doctrines, or faiths) can rise above this. How? It's not easy! If people can rise above dogmas, and if people can all start to think for themselves, and adopt the "learn from everything, follow nothing" approach, the organizational structures will become more dispersed and the power pyramid will drastically flatten. This will result in a society where the conflicts are mostly local rather than on a scale that create wars.

 

However, as long as people uncritically follow what has been handed down to them, conflict will be unavoidable, since conflict is encoded deep into many doctrines (what people call "faiths").

Edited February 21, 2009 by goldisheavy

[NeutralWire]

You can create harmony between PEOPLE, but never between faiths (which is to say doctrines). The doctrines we inherit historically will always and forever be in conflict.

 

Interestingly, last night on British TV was the final episode of a series called 'Around the World in 80 Faiths', and the last 'faith' featured was that of Damanhur -- an Italian commune based on pagan beliefs whose progress I've been checking out for some time.

 

In the seventies a small group of western practitioners began digging into a mountainside and eventually built these stunning temples:

 

http://www.thetemples.org

 

(if you've never seen this before, you won't believe your eyes)

 

... I won't go into their quarrels with the Italian government because those are behind them now, and they are doing well -- they have regenerated the economy of their area of Italy by all accounts.

 

 

I bring them up because:

 

They have an area of their temple with stained glass windows depicting the faiths of the world. It is dedicated to the idea of harmonizing all religion into one family of human belief.

 

There was a lovely TV moment as the (christian) presenter wandered through this area, looking at the stained glass windows, which each represent a deity (from Aphrodite to Unkul Unkulu) now or at some time worshipped by humanity. As he reached the window portraying Jesus Christ he paused and was thoughtful. He remarked that it was very interesting to see his faith as one amongst many.

 

To his guide (Esperide Ananas) he said: "You represent all the faiths of the world here, but in reality, their history hasn't exactly been peaceful."

 

She replied, "That's the point. To work towards that peace."

 

The presenter said that of all the 80 faiths, this was the only one whose message was that all faiths can learn to co-exist peacefully as part of one great human family.

 

But the Damanhurians themselves don't call what they have a 'faith', they simply say they have a 'spirituality' -- which is what I say also.

 

Does this take the number of faiths in the world which explicitly believe and teach harmony of religions to precisely zero?

 

My personal philosophy allows me to agree with the Damanhurians, but only because I also follow no faith. With regret, then, I must say that I believe most human religion to be at least partly damaging to human freedom and peace. But I will pray with the Damanhurians any time, and that means I propose that we revision religion as spirituality.

 

Perhaps the concept of individual responsibility for belief could help, but it's unlikely to catch on. If everyone went home from your conference and told their co-religionists, the ability to get on with other faiths should be an article of our own, that would be a start. But again arises the question, do people have the courage to follow through on even such an obviously beneficial idea?

 

These days I tend to believe that all faiths represent only a staging post, and on principle, I follow none myself.

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

Edited February 21, 2009 by NeutralWire

[ralis]

not true of all religions (especially those which follow Dharma traditions)

 

I suggest you learn about the history of Tibetan Buddhism. For 800 yrs. Tibet was ruled by an intellectual fascist elite. The Dalai Lama along with the monastic class ruled over a poor fearful uneducated superstitious people i.e, serfs. They kept it that way for their own benefit. If you have taken any teachings from Tibetan Lamas, you will see the same thing being perpetrated on you i.e, fear and superstition.

 

ralis

[goldisheavy]

Edited February 21, 2009 by goldisheavy

[thelerner]

To help establish good faith , I'd ask some of the members meeting to stand up and say good things, what can be learned from another religion. That might ease tension, foster good will and create some important talking points.

 

 

Michael

[NeutralWire]

[Stigweard]

Just to be clear, the presenter was talking of faiths he had actually visited in his round-the-world tour, and there really were eighty of them. Impressive. I didn't catch more than this one show, but if there's a DVD I might rent it.

 

NW

 

You can get the hardcover book: Around the World in 80 Faiths (Hardcover) by Peter Owen Jones

 

[NeutralWire]

... hmm. I have very little use for my TV just now so I was hoping for the DVD. Got a 5-page amazon wish list to get through before I can entertain Mr Jones in book form. He is, as Glenn Morris would have said, 'about as esoteric as a duck.'

 

NW

 

(Nothing against ducks)

[Apech]

You can get the hardcover book: Around the World in 80 Faiths (Hardcover) by Peter Owen Jones

 

 

I caught most of this series and yes he visited Ba'hai in Iran - parts of it were so hurried that he seemed to spend about 10 seconds looking at some religions before jumping on a jet to zoom off somewhere else - the whirling dervishes barely got though 270 degrees before he was off. But there were some nice bits though ... so I quiet enjoyed it in a lighthearted sort of a way.

[dwai]

I suggest you learn about the history of Tibetan Buddhism. For 800 yrs. Tibet was ruled by an intellectual fascist elite. The Dalai Lama along with the monastic class ruled over a poor fearful uneducated superstitious people i.e, serfs. They kept it that way for their own benefit. If you have taken any teachings from Tibetan Lamas, you will see the same thing being perpetrated on you i.e, fear and superstition.

 

ralis

 

And that is a proven fact or is it only your opinion?

None of the Dharmic traditions claim to be the "ONLY" way -- exclusivism is unique to abrahamic religions.

[ralis]

And that is a proven fact or is it only your opinion?

None of the Dharmic traditions claim to be the "ONLY" way -- exclusivism is unique to abrahamic religions.

 

It is a fact. I always question and read, instead of being some true believer. Many scholars have written on this subject. Donald Lopez for one.

 

Just go to a Tibetan Lama and ask for a transmission and see how you are treated. Will you be treated like a peer or someone who is lower? You will be treated like the latter.

 

ralis

Edited February 22, 2009 by ralis

[宁]

saying all the relligions are simmilar beats their own purpose

 

a man is on a path because it gives him identity by means of separating him from the large mass, and on the second hand, helps him regain his own personal identity

 

a mass has no identity, hence no spirit

 

this is not to say spirit and identity are the same

[NeutralWire]

saying all the relligions are simmilar beats their own purpose

 

a man is on a path because it gives him identity by means of separating him from the large mass, and on the second hand, helps him regain his own personal identity

 

If you're referring to the Damanhurians, they are not saying all religions are 'similar' but that they can all be seen as part of one larger pattern, just as not all countries are similar but they can all be seen on a map together.

 

NW

Edited February 22, 2009 by NeutralWire

[rex]

Highlight essential areas of core value. To paraphase William Blake, "It matters not if you're heathen, Turk or Jew, but where Love, Mercy, Pity dwell, there God dwells too".

[ZenStatic]

It is a fact. I always question and read, instead of being some true believer. Many scholars have written on this subject. Donald Lopez for one.

 

Just go to a Tibetan Lama and ask for a transmission and see how you are treated. Will you be treated like a peer or someone who is lower? You will be treated like the latter.

 

ralis

 

As would be right. If you haven't put in the time and learning to receive that transmission, you shouldn't get it. And you're not a peer. Your example is analogous to my walking into Harvard and asking for a degree.

 

"I always question and read, instead of being some true believer." That is your problem right there. Anything spiritual is to be experienced, not just read about. No matter how much you read, if you don't act on that in a sincere and true manner, you'll get nothing.

[ralis]

As would be right. If you haven't put in the time and learning to receive that transmission, you shouldn't get it. And you're not a peer. Your example is analogous to my walking into Harvard and asking for a degree.

 

"I always question and read, instead of being some true believer." That is your problem right there. Anything spiritual is to be experienced, not just read about. No matter how much you read, if you don't act on that in a sincere and true manner, you'll get nothing.

 

Problem? You take what I said out of context. I was merely stating a fact about how the ordinary citizen of Tibet was treated. Read for yourself! There are a lot of Tibetan wannabes and even some scholars that never question this fact. I live in a town full of them. This has nothing to do with any experience of spiritually. Anyone who has some degree of spiritual awakening is going to question the behavior that I have pointed out.

 

As for being a peer, what I meant was being treated with respect. Tibetan Lamas treat students like heathens. While at the same time they want us to feel sorry for them for what happened to their country. (Tibet was always a part of China and never independent). They ask for money to keep the same monastic culture intact. At the same time, feeding spiritual crumbs to their followers, while promising enlightenment in 7 lifetimes.

 

Do you know of any Lama that works at a real job? No, they just meditate and go on retreat. The only exception that I am aware of is Namkai Norbu.

 

 

 

The culture of Tibet was even worse than the European "Dark Ages". In Europe there were three classes until the enlightenment. Aristocratic, priesthood and serfs. Tibet was monastic i.e, Lamaism and serfs. I don't know why this is so difficult for most to understand.

 

The Dalai Lama admitted all of this publicly and has refused to continue his lineage!

 

One good reference is Donald Lopez. His book "Prisoners of Shamabalah" is a good place to start.

 

If you are going to debate me, I suggest not taking me out of context. To state that I read in lieu of some kind of spiritual experience is proceeding from an incorrect conclusion.

 

My point is that religion corrupts the human spirit and impedes real progress to provide for human everyday needs. Religion thrives on the quest for power, while keeping followers in a state of fear and superstition.

 

I would like to share a recent conversation I had with a friend of mine. I asked him why Ganten Tulku was putting so much money into the restoration of some special monastery in Bhutan, while at the same time people in the region needed medical care and had other immediate needs. He said that monasteries are where the Dharma is dispensed and the needs of people are irrelevant. Seems to me that monasteries are where people go to worship Dharma kings as opposed to understanding what life is really about. Was the church hierarchy in Europe with their massive cathedrals any different?

 

 

 

ralis

[forestofsouls]

I would have people of other faiths get together and meet each other. It seems a lot of disharmony is based on ignorance. Once people come to understand that most people are "good" people, regardless of racial, ethnic, religious differences, then the walls just melt away.

 

 

Anything that tends to get fossilized tends to corrupt the human spirit. Whether it is our own dogmatic beliefs, scientific materialism, religious or governmental institutions--- the tendencies are the same.

 

My point is that religion corrupts the human spirit and impedes real progress to provide for human everyday needs. Religion thrives on the quest for power, while keeping followers in a state of fear and superstition.

[ralis]

One other source I would highly recommend is Wilhelm Reich's "Mass Psychology of Fascism" is which he defines the problems of emotional suppression that lead to what I have been referring to in my previous posts.

 

I don't believe for one minute that having groups of religious leaders meet causes the walls to come down. Just does not happen. Religion is by its very nature tribal and therefor divisive.

 

ralis