Good Beginers Qigong?

[joshu]

Hi all,

 

I'm looking for appropriate qigong excercises for myself. I'll try to give a brief description of who I am and my current situation so that you'll know what I'm looking for.

 

I come here from a background in zen buddhism although I first became interested in "eastern philosophy" after a strange transformative experience involving lsd and then reading the tao te ching back in highschool, but thats another story. I pursued zen because I appreciated the simple direct approach. The attitude seemed to be: just wake up! Why waste time trying to discern the mysteries of the universe or attempting to acheive immortality, death approaches quickly, pursue the "great matter" with single minded devotion (and so forth). I also appreciated that the "religion" was based on an actual physical meditation i.e. zazen. The practice of zazen while simple and direct, its subtlty and fathomless depth seemed worthy of a lifetime of study. I was also fortunate to meet good teachers and active practice centers. The problem is after years of zazen very intense emotions and energies started to come up. I tried to just "sit through it", I would clench muscles grind my teeth and try my best to just let it all go through me but I couldn't. My teacher suggested physical exercise like riding a bike or running. I never seemed able to maintain an exercise regiment however, perhaps because these "energies" seemed to have a strong emotional charge, I eventually just stopped everything. This was a couple years ago. Various addictions (nothing too serious, pot, booze, cigarettes, coffee, etc.) and depression have crept in. I want to resume my meditation practice but honestly I'm afraid. I feel that qigong may hold the answer. I don't know of any teachers in my area, but I am looking for a physical practice that involves standing and moving. If I start sitting zazen again and these emotional energies arise I need to be able to process them in some way. Any advice from experienced qigong practitioners will be sincerely appreciated. Also book suggestions, basic exercises, etc. would be great. I have read a lot about chinese medicine and some of the basics about this stuff so no need to explain the meaning of chi and so forth. Thank you for reading all this.

[Mal]

[Ya Mu]

There are a lot of teachers of as well as a lot of videos of the Eight Brocade Pieces (Eight Pieces of Silk). This is an extremely simple set of physical exercises.

[Mal]

Lifting the Sky, also Looking at the Moon from the same book, are great Chi Gungs. Like the book said practice just 10 reps EVERYDAY for 3 months and you will get NOTICEABLE results

 

I have 4 chi gungs that I do every morning for 20 min (I learnt them in KAP.) Also my Sifu (Kung Fu) is not a big fan of seated meditations and personally prefers moving ones, his preference being Tai Chi.

 

Personally I find moving meditation a nice complement / balance to static meditation (i.e. seated / standing / lying) Most importantly. Smile and have fun doing your Chi Gungs

[Ya Mu]

... Most importantly. Smile and have fun doing your Chi Gungs

[joshu]

Thank you kindly. I'm going to try "Lift the Sky" after I post this. Also, about a week ago I ordered online a book on "Five-animal frolics" qigong, Wu Qin Xi, it looks like it was put out by the chinese qigong health association. Any opinions on this? Would eight brocade pieces be better?

[Iris]

Thank you kindly. I'm going to try "Lift the Sky" after I post this. Also, about a week ago I ordered online a book on "Five-animal frolics" qigong, Wu Qin Xi, it looks like it was put out by the chinese qigong health association. Any opinions on this? Would eight brocade pieces be better?

 

 

I like "Yin opens and Yang closes" I find it helps "Calm the Spirit"

 

 

 

Do you have any basic knowledge in gongfu? Horse stance, 3 breaths, Dan tien, how to hold your tongue, wuji gaze etc?

 

Holding the 4 posts is good too ...

 

I would look for a class or teacher to help you start off with the basics....just learning Tiger plays with Ball type exercises should get you in tune with qi inside and out

 

You can also follow meridians in their order with your eyes closes and with your intent...

 

Mostly I would find a good TCM doctors to help you with your problems - Make sure they're not just an acupuncturist but know the entire system i.e. herbs, tuina, qigong, nutrition etc...

 

As for the addictions - pick the easiest one to stop and start there...

 

And for meditating I know someone who did zen meditation hard core for years and after learning vipassana they felt like it was the first time they had ever meditated in their life - I don't know zen but I can vouch for vipassana - it would certainly help kick those addictions.

 

Gautama taught Vipassana, he didn't invent it but stumpled across it in his search - it's how he became enlightened and it's what he spent his life teaching others. Not sure why so many Buddhists don't learn this.

 

Anyways, best of everything. a.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Iris

[doc benway]

There are a lot of teachers of as well as a lot of videos of the Eight Brocade Pieces (Eight Pieces of Silk). This is an extremely simple set of physical exercises.

+1 on 8 Pieces of Brocade.

[joshu]

So, I looked at the five animals qigong and it seemed like it might be too complicated for learning from a book. Perhaps 8 pieces brocade would be a better place to start. Any other opinions on books for learning 8 pieces? By the way I plan on studying with a qigong teacher when I move to SanFransisco or Seattle but thats a year or more away.

 

Speaking to Iris's reply, not sure how to hold my tongue or the other postures you mentioned. In zazen we put our tongue against the roof of our mouth behind the front teeth. Something to do with connecting the front and back energy channels. I've read about the microcosmic orbit but I've never known what to do with it. The same for lower dan tien. As far as "Gautama taught Vipassana" its funny, every school of Buddhism says their branch was what Buddha taught. Buddha must have taught a lot of stuff! I've met Vipassana students and Vipassana teachers and have nothing but good things to say about it. Its just not my path at this time.

 

One thing I've been interested in is this concept or "rooting" or being "rooted". What does that mean exactly and how does one get more rooted. I have a theory that the negative emotions that I feel overwhelmed by could be sent into the earth and replaced with a more wholesome energy. I'm I crazy? Is there a practice for this?

[Eric23]

+1 on 8 Pieces of Brocade.

 

 

+2

[Aetherous]

Walking slowly in nature qigong. Highly underrated.

[joshu]

"Walking slowly in nature qigong".....thank you, couldn't agree more. Why am I sitting in front of a computer right now? One more question then I'll leave it alone for a while. What about the six healing sounds? Anybody have experience working with them? Can a person with a sincere heart and at least a little inner sensitivity practice them without a teacher? If so how?

 

O.k. that was four questions, please answer all of them promptly and completely.

[thelerner]

Check out the Healingtaousa site. Michael Winn has information & videos on 5 animals and 6 healing sounds (I believe he covers both in his Fundamentals I video). He has some good qi gong videos also. As a beginner I picked up his Fundamental II video and its still my favorite form. He keeps things simple and does a good job of explaining the energetics. If you like the videos he relatively inexpensive seminars all summer.

 

Michael

[Sunya]

Joshu

 

the book "The Way of Energy" by Master Lam Kam Chuen is excellent for standing exercises, best performed under a tree. check it out on amazon, get it used: cheap.

 

as for the rest of your concerns, i'm not extremely knowledgeable. i don't know much.... and this isn't just a humble thing but i can point you in the right direction. i feel that the Inner Smile meditation will really help you. when you meditate, keep a slight smile on your face, remember a time when you were really happy and feel that emotion spreading down into your body, feel that emotion. the energies you are feeling seem to be negative, but can be transformed into positive by intent, keep positive. Glenn Morris says the inner smile is the most important meditation, you might want to check out his book Path Notes of an American Ninja Master where he describes the inner smile and other great techniques for not getting burned by energy over load (chi sickness), and if you like it, his 2nd book Shadow Strategies is excellent too. though he gets into a lot of 'phenomena' stuff (not very zen) his Qi Gong advice is solid, the book is biographical so is really interesting to read. he unfortunately left the physical form recently, but his student Santiago posts here (username Vajrasattva) and i'm sure will be willing to help you out with any issues you're having. he knows the deal. I hope this helps.. stick around and keep us updated. this is a nice little community of bums

 

Mikael

Edited February 24, 2009 by mikaelz

[forestofsouls]

I'm not sure if qigong will give you what you're looking for. What you seem to be asking for is equanimity, rather than power. Qi gong can often accelerate things and make them more powerful. A good vipassana style technique, where you deconstruct your experience with equanimity, may help more. Just a thought.

 

 

Hi all,

 

I'm looking for appropriate qigong excercises for myself. I'll try to give a brief description of who I am and my current situation so that you'll know what I'm looking for.

[joshu]

I'm not sure if qigong will give you what you're looking for. What you seem to be asking for is equanimity, rather than power. Qi gong can often accelerate things and make them more powerful. A good vipassana style technique, where you deconstruct your experience with equanimity, may help more. Just a thought.

 

Thanks again for the responses. I will look closer at vipassana although I'm not sure its radically different than the meditation taught at zen centers (observation of bodily sensations and breath, etc.) And it is true I'm not looking for power. Equanimity would be nice.

 

I sat zazen for many, many hours, and I have a theory about what happens. During the course of sitting the mind gets very still and quiet. The body also gets very still and quiet. Eventually emotions which were too difficult to process in the past (usually childhood) float to the surface once space is made for them. Sometimes tears stream or laughter for no reason. There's no reason for it, its just feelings stored in the body as energy that are now, once the body/mind is completely still, rising. After sitting you are left with a wonderful feeling of lightness and vitality. The problem is for me it eventually got too strong. The muscles in my abdomen would clench, I would feel rushes up my spine and through my arms and legs. A strong desire to jump up and move around and even yell out loud comes over me. It sounds ridiculous I know.

 

I thought if I practiced qigong the energy body could become stronger and the channels could flow smoothly, then when I'm sitting I can handle it better. Am I getting this wrong? Sorry to ramble...

[WhiteTiger]

+2

 

+3 on the 8 Pieces of Brocade.

 

A simple foundation always needs to be established... all the high level teachers must have this before ever moving on to something like Tai Chi in the beginning... or moving Qigong and so forth.

 

I would personally lay off all drugs they don't help you out... they will never... I've Heard alcohol can help you to relax although in very small doses...

 

"Walking slowly in nature qigong".....thank you, couldn't agree more. Why am I sitting in front of a computer right now? One more question then I'll leave it alone for a while. What about the six healing sounds? Anybody have experience working with them? Can a person with a sincere heart and at least a little inner sensitivity practice them without a teacher? If so how?

 

O.k. that was four questions, please answer all of them promptly and completely.

 

You can benefit from this but the outcome will never be anything significant without a teacher I think its a bad idea to go with this... There are many dangers you could run into if you did it improperly using intention behind it without doing it correct...

 

I'm not sure if qigong will give you what you're looking for. What you seem to be asking for is equanimity, rather than power. Qi gong can often accelerate things and make them more powerful. A good vipassana style technique, where you deconstruct your experience with equanimity, may help more. Just a thought.

 

I'm also pretty sure Qigong will not help you out... It may give you empowerment but the karmic retribution will be great in the end... while you might have ups and feel good for those ups you will have downs... And i'm sure you want balance.

 

If you were doing Zazen and had issues arise you better continue to do them until you brake through the arising... best way to help you and better then starting something new. Zazen is pretty good practice and you had teachers willing to teach you it.

 

Equanimity is similar and what you are kind of looking for in Zazen... although they have a different way to teachings similar things like you mentioned... Vipassana is a very good practice to also do...

 

Their are a lot of crazy Qigong teachers out there holding lots of power... bent on power in some way on it... Gaining power can make you crazy in many different ways... before you ever go into that you need to find a good foundation... that gives you, balance, or Peace, or Equanimity, all that sorts of things... I really suggest you not try to go against the grain. You will cause more harm and difficulty to yourself then you need to.

 

Remember try your best to lay off the drugs they aren't gunna help you.

[joshu]

Thanks for the insights White Tiger. To be clear though, drugs are not an issue for me, I'm weaning myself off pot but I smoke far less than stoners in my area (i.e. not everyday). Rereading my posts I think I'm making myself sound less stable than I am. I look forward to learning qigong and agree a good foundation is always important. Otherwise the house will fall down... In a way I think qigong could be a foundation for the sitting meditation. Modern day people have many problems that were virtually unheard of in the past (dysfunctional families, abuse, pychological issues, toxic food, pornography, etc. etc.) and I think its important to have a healthy body and mind in order to delve deeply into meditation practice. I am interested in healthy qigong, medical qigong.

[WhiteTiger]

Thanks for the insights White Tiger. To be clear though, drugs are not an issue for me, I'm weaning myself off pot but I smoke far less than stoners in my area (i.e. not everyday). Rereading my posts I think I'm making myself sound less stable than I am. I look forward to learning qigong and agree a good foundation is always important. Otherwise the house will fall down... In a way I think qigong could be a foundation for the sitting meditation. Modern day people have many problems that were virtually unheard of in the past (dysfunctional families, abuse, pychological issues, toxic food, pornography, etc. etc.) and I think its important to have a healthy body and mind in order to delve deeply into meditation practice. I am interested in healthy qigong, medical qigong.

 

None movement Qigong is completely different approach to achieving healthy body... when done properly and correct you can through sitting meditation achieve a healthy body... although when suffering continues and your not getting there many want to stray off the actual practice to try something different...

 

You chose Qigong to do this... No teacher would recommend you to stop trying the practice because your having problems with it... You must continue to put effort intill the issue is fixed. Working on getting one thing down before moving to the next... If you move to the next thing you have to choose to make that your main practice (thats the best advice any teacher/master would tell you) I can't stress that enough... I'm sure everyone here will agree with me here.

 

Choose one and stick with it until you've worked through most to almost all your issues with it then move to the next... type of way to deal with it... You choose your path... Best recommendation is to stick with Zazen. If done in stillness your body shouldn't deteriorate. If it does I suggest doing some medical Qigong and thats only to keep yourself from going down the tubes.

 

Can bring a horse to the water but can't make the horse drink it.

 

I think when i last posted i address a whole bunch of things... this second post i pretty much address the main issue... Its up to you to gain the ability to overcome the problems... Buddhism is a practice of self help... they give you guidance you follow the way to help yourself.

 

Peace,

wT

[joshu]

I don't get it, why can't I practice both qigong and zazen? I see them as distinctly different and potentially complementary practices.

[Tactile]

Lifting the Sky, also Looking at the Moon from the same book, are great Chi Gungs. Like the book said practice just 10 reps EVERYDAY for 3 months and you will get NOTICEABLE results

 

I have 4 chi gungs that I do every morning for 20 min (I learnt them in KAP.) Also my Sifu (Kung Fu) is not a big fan of seated meditations and personally prefers moving ones, his preference being Tai Chi.

 

Personally I find moving meditation a nice complement / balance to static meditation (i.e. seated / standing / lying) Most importantly. Smile and have fun doing your Chi Gungs

 

Yeah I like WKK's qigong too.. the most important aspect of which is the state of chi flow. Meaning that when you have performed your pattern of choice, you enter in a state of release and allow your body move (or do whatever) how it wants. But you should get the book because it has proper instruction.

[Sunya]

I don't get it, why can't I practice both qigong and zazen? I see them as distinctly different and potentially complementary practices.

 

they are definitely complimentary in my opinion. i think a lot of the issues that arise with strict Qi Gong practitioners are remedied by stillness meditation, and vice versa with strict stillness meditation (such as in your case)

 

Qi Gong can help

 

but really what it comes down to is that you're still hung up on the "I" and attaching to the body, i know that this seems so vague and hard to practice, especially when in the midst of a meditative breakdown, or whatever, but its true. you're not surrendering enough. surrender and keep positive (which Qi Gong can really help with ie. Inner Smile meditation) also diet is important, raw vegetables will solve many energetic complications. you could try juice fasting too for a couple days. these are all ideas that you can play around with if you want

Edited February 25, 2009 by mikaelz

[forestofsouls]

Joshu,

 

The symptoms you have reported are very common. I myself have experienced them many times at varying intensities. This is a classic stage of meditation.

 

I've practiced many forms of tai chi and qi gong--- having learned from Waysun Liao's school, taken classes from Master Chen and Sifu Wong Kiew Kit in person--- but the only thing that has really helped me build equanimity is penetrating the difficult emotions with attention, i.e. vipassana, specifically as taught by Shinzen Young. If the emotion comes up in a huge block, it can be overwhelming. If you can break it down to just image, just feeling, and just (inner) talk, it is easier to digest--- like taking a 1 ton rock and splitting it in thirds.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't take qi gong, in fact it can be helpful, but it may not provide the silver bullet you may be looking for. In fact, it may make the emotions more powerful. My old tai chi teacher says that it accelerates your illness/problems, so that they often get very bad before they get better. I find this is how I get sick: I usually get very sick for a very short period of time.

 

I practice qi gong myself, but for energy and power to propel my meditation.

 

Anyway, I'm sure you're work through it, one way or another. More than likely, your head is in the tiger's mouth.

[bindo]

Jerry Alan Johnson's CHI KUNG - The Healing Workout is quite excellent. DVD only.

[Guest sykkelpump]

spring forest qi gong,then you for sure arent wasting your time.And combining it with zazen will make it MUCH more effective

Edited February 25, 2009 by sykkelpump