existing in two places at once

[johntrevy]

Beginning last year i had annixety problems brought on by the job i had at the time (Redundancies). Everyday i was in emotional and physical discomfort. However one-day i was sitting in my car just about ready to walk back to work. For some reason i started to think about love (not girls, just the feeling of kindness, compassion and understanding), i started feeling very relaxed in my body and i seemed much taller than what i was.

 

I got into my work place to go back to work, and for some reason in my minds eye (you knowwhen you think about somthing, you kind of see it?) i could see this golden forest, The background was a bright gold colour and there were beautiful trees that were white shinning light out of them, these stretched out for what seemed infinate.

When i was walking around doing my work, where people were i could see a blue orb where their head was.

I could feel nothing but bliss in my body at the time this was happening.

It was wierd, though, i could see where i was going in the real world but i was also (seeing) this other place of wonder at the same time. it was like i was in two places at the same time.

 

It was funny really because as i felt differnt (bliss- not orgasm, just lovelyness) when i was talking to people they thought i was on drugs or somthing. lol

 

If anyone understands this..has it happened to anyone else?If so, any way to induce it?

[Ya Mu]

We are multidimensional Beings of Light that simultaneous operate on many worlds. One of the things we have to do in our learning is integrate the experiences; in other words what we do on one world can effect what we do an another.

OR

You ate a mushroom for breakfast.

[johntrevy]

We are multidimensional Beings of Light that simultaneous operate on many worlds. One of the things we have to do in our learning is integrate the experiences; in other words what we do on one world can effect what we do an another.

OR

You ate a mushroom for breakfast.

 

I dont eat mushrooms so it cant be that... It was so wonderful though, everything just seemed right. So it could be that in that world, i and everyone else was just a blue orb of light.

Could explain why i felt no pain, just bliss and the feeling of being taller (floating perhaps).

Edited February 24, 2009 by johntrevy

[goldisheavy]

If anyone understands this..has it happened to anyone else?If so, any way to induce it?

 

I've had similar experiences. I think you've answered your own question though about "inducing" it:

 

For some reason i started to think about love (not girls, just the feeling of kindness, compassion and understanding), i started feeling very relaxed in my body

 

I might be wrong, but this does look like your answer from my point of view.

[johntrevy]

I've had similar experiences. I think you've answered your own question though about "inducing" it:

I might be wrong, but this does look like your answer from my point of view.

 

I did try it again (thinking of love) to induce it, but it didnt really do much. It must have been a "Right place, right time" moment to happen on its own. But im not sure.

[froggie]

You will have to have at least double the energy you have now, preferably with some surplus just in case, to really (be able to) do something like that. (it's just an opinion)

And to get such energy one should at the very very least be in harmony with nature and give to nature first so she can grow and then you can get some back from her and start from there. (and keep that relation going) i think you can Also call that 'karma' workings, but besides all of that it's just another true opinion.

Edited February 24, 2009 by froggie

[minkus]

Hey Johntrevy, looks like you had a spontanious opening. Or atleast the thought of unconditional love triggered something very nice inside you

 

Compassion, loving kindness, unconditional love .. is one of the strongest energy's in the world so yeh

 

Regards !

[NeutralWire]

it was like i was in two places at the same time.

 

You are! Ya Mu is right. Not just two either.

 

Things like this which happen spontaneously IME often seem to happen when people are at the beginning of a spiritual path, and are a sign that the going is good.

 

As far as repeating is concerned, these things mostly seem to be single events. Do more of whatever you were doing and see what happens.

 

Essentially you remote-viewed your own presence on an astral plane, something that the Bardon system I work with will gradually train you to do deliberately, but I'm sure many other systems also would.

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

[katonline]

Hey, johntrevy,

 

I also had an experience like this, many, in fact.

I sometimes had brief episodes of this experience as a child, but thought that everybody did!!

Then it happened a few years ago and it lasted three days and nights. I was everywhere at once, and could hear and see everything and everyone everywhere.

I often still have this experience, but it doesn't last as long as several days. I oo, experience a sensation of being very tall.... nice, as I am only five feet high!!

For a few years I had Jin Sho Do (spelling) or Tibetan accupressure sessions. There are 2 points to press for this experience to be induced. One point is just above the wrist, on the inner arm- I use my left arm and right thumb- , about one third the way up to the inner elbow; you will find it amongst the tendons, at the point where the veins fade from view. If you press it, it will be slightly tender and feel like a thickening under the skin. You will have to press and release several times over a few minutes to activate it. If you alternate pressing that point with another point (the second that I will now list), the effect is much longer and deeper.

The second point is at the junction of the wrist, near the outside closest to the thumb; the point is in the fleshy part of the wrist at the end of this bone.

I've been looking for for a really long time for other people who've had this experience. For a long while I have thought of it as "bi-location". Seems, stumbling onto your forum, I've found more than a few!

http://thetaobums.com/style_images/3/folde...icons/icon1.gif

[Fire Dragon]

Hello

 

As so often. Trying to achive the same phenomena as before isn't the right attitude! When trying it that way you didn't do it the same way as when it first happened. When it first happened you didn't try to do anything more than feel the love and compassion, not for a purpose!

 

It is so! Don't try to do or have the same feelings as before then they most sertainly not arrives! Just do spiritual work and be happy for whatever happens or not happens.

 

 

 

F D

[johntrevy]

Hello

 

As so often. Trying to achive the same phenomena as before isn't the right attitude! When trying it that way you didn't do it the same way as when it first happened. When it first happened you didn't try to do anything more than feel the love and compassion, not for a purpose!

 

It is so! Don't try to do or have the same feelings as before then they most sertainly not arrives! Just do spiritual work and be happy for whatever happens or not happens.

F D

 

I think i totally agree with you here. By trying to induce it, it was like i was asking for somthing perhaps i didnt have the right to explore further. It seems the experience is "invitation only". I got invited once, i went, but i didnt get invited again. Oh well it happens. I guess this was only one of a multitude of parties i can goto.

[Fire Dragon]

I think i totally agree with you here. By trying to induce it, it was like i was asking for somthing perhaps i didnt have the right to explore further. It seems the experience is "invitation only". I got invited once, i went, but i didnt get invited again. Oh well it happens. I guess this was only one of a multitude of parties i can goto.

 

 

Hello. Yes perhaps.

 

Or it might happen again, perhaps when you are not searching. Anyway what do I know? It seems like what you have got is a nice experience from your life Well there is descriptions of quite similar, I think, phenomenas in the novells by Jade Lee. Similar but not necessarily eqal. If I remember right she call it the ante chamber, but to be onest I not know if it is the same as your experience. Similar experiences and places have anyway name in the litterature, but I am not the right person to tell you what it might be. Also in Buddhism they are talking about different places like that.

 

All good to you

 

 

F D

[goldisheavy]

There are different levels of relaxation and openness. When you relax spontaneously, it is authentic. When you relax on purpose, you have a goal in mind. If you have a goal in mind, you cannot match the spontaneous relaxation. This is why meditation is often/always a miserable failure. When you contrive to do something, you create more tension and activity. A state of lordliness is not having to do anything or to feel anything in particular. There is no wish to relax or to achieve any experience.

 

It comes about naturally as the person runs out of things to do in the world. If you have many goals and ambitions and run around trying to achieve this and that, you won't be experiencing lordliness. You'll be more like a little rat in a rat race. And as a rat, even if you relax, you'll have nothing but superficial relaxation.

 

If you pay attention to yourself over many years, you'll eventually understand the intricacies of your own heart.

 

The kinds and the character of concerns that dominate the mind determine the kind of being you are. Should you want to be immortal, you may not have the concerns of a mortal.

Edited February 25, 2009 by goldisheavy

[NeutralWire]

goldisheavy --

 

Totally agree on the distractions thing, but it's really not necessary to have 'no goals left' -- just necessary to be able to focus on the moment you are in exclusively, something which comes with practice. That's why Zen people like archery. Instant feedback on your concentration level.

 

When you relax on purpose, you have a goal in mind. If you have a goal in mind, you cannot match the spontaneous relaxation.

 

The key to this is amount of time spent. Anyone who can't relax now can do their best 15 mins a day and call me in a year (but I've seen it take two). Doing other things can help, experiment! There are many, many techniques to help with relaxation out there now, it's one of the West's prime interests.

 

It's all about getting over your own defensiveness. Meditation ceases to be a 'miserable failure' at the point one ceases worrying about succeeding -- but one can succeed and indeed have a goal without worrying about having the goal, which was the point of a recent thread on intention. When you do archery you have a target, and that's a goal. It's not the goal that's the problem but the story one is telling oneself about the goal.

 

This is why meditation is often/always a miserable failure.

 

A little overstated I believe!

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

[goldisheavy]

NeutralWire,

 

I like how you put it. I think there are various possibilities for magic moments. One is to have no goals. Another is to have goals of an ornamental nature -- that is to say, these are not perceived to be necessary, "must haves", essential, life sustaining, or anything like that. I believe that's what you were saying. However, I don't often see people talk about goals or intent in an ornamental capacity. Usually people really want something, but the more you want it, the more the possibility of not having it is disturbing to the mind.

 

I sometimes like to look at mind as a deep cake with many layers. So way down near the bottom you have the ground of being, then the core beliefs (these are unquestionable, seen as facts), basic/fundamental distinctions, then important beliefs (these are seen as a waste of time to question, because you've never seen one of these be false, but maybe you've read there is a possibility and were able to consider it for a moment) and more detailed distinctions, and so on. Somewhere in the middle or maybe even closer to the bottom is also a layer of beliefs about beliefs. This reflects your current understanding of the meaning, power, and other properties of beliefs themselves.

 

Amazing experiences happen when something relaxes/changes at a very deep level of mind. However, people normally have direct conscious control of only the superficial layers. The superficial layers are amenable to direct intent without the need for restructuring beliefs on the lower levels of mind. However in order to gain direct intent access to a lower level, the level below the one you want to influence via intent needs to have its beliefs restructured. Once beliefs on some level no longer act as blockers, then the level of mind above can be freely changed via intent.

 

This is a very rough picture and not something I take literally.

 

It's hard to tinker with the deeper layers without feeling like you're toying with insanity. Part of the problem with ordinary meditation instructions is that they often casually suggest making a shift at the deepest level of mind, without having any kind of respect for what it means to do so. For example, erasing the self-other boundary, when fully done, is the deepest level. If you can do so consciously at any time, it means you're not really a human being and you don't live "here" anymore. It means laws of physics do not apply to you and so forth, because all the beliefs on higher levels are also under your command. And yet I see many people believing that they have the ability to casually transcend self/other fundamental duality and yet they have no power over even minor manifestations. This signifies a delusion to my mind.

 

I've barely scratched the surface here. It's best, in my opinion, to live day by day and move step by step and not worry about recreating any experiences, or at least, not right away.

Edited February 26, 2009 by goldisheavy

[NeutralWire]

And yet I see many people believing that they have the ability to casually transcend self/other fundamental duality and yet they have no power over even minor manifestations. This signifies a delusion to my mind.

 

Oh always -- I'm with you there. It takes a great deal of persistence to gain conscious control over what had been instinctual, and go to inner layers in a stable manner. I do think it's all in how much you want it though, and also how good your method is. But then my personal path is all about this.

 

Once beliefs on some level no longer act as blockers, then the level of mind above can be freely changed via intent.

 

I agree although I don't think about 'blockers' exactly, only because it seems to me that all beliefs are there for good reason, and will change for equally good reasons. They are all about energetic story-flows through the self.

 

If you can totally relax and totally concentrate, focus your mind properly in other words, you can easily have a goal without the goal disturbing you. This is one reason why moral progress is demanded of us before that kind of mind comes naturally -- your goals had better be positive or you'll become a nuisance.

 

NW

Edited February 26, 2009 by NeutralWire

[minkus]

Hey, johntrevy,

 

I also had an experience like this, many, in fact.

I sometimes had brief episodes of this experience as a child, but thought that everybody did!!

Then it happened a few years ago and it lasted three days and nights. I was everywhere at once, and could hear and see everything and everyone everywhere.

I often still have this experience, but it doesn't last as long as several days. I oo, experience a sensation of being very tall.... nice, as I am only five feet high!!

For a few years I had Jin Sho Do (spelling) or Tibetan accupressure sessions. There are 2 points to press for this experience to be induced. One point is just above the wrist, on the inner arm- I use my left arm and right thumb- , about one third the way up to the inner elbow; you will find it amongst the tendons, at the point where the veins fade from view. If you press it, it will be slightly tender and feel like a thickening under the skin. You will have to press and release several times over a few minutes to activate it. If you alternate pressing that point with another point (the second that I will now list), the effect is much longer and deeper.

The second point is at the junction of the wrist, near the outside closest to the thumb; the point is in the fleshy part of the wrist at the end of this bone.

I've been looking for for a really long time for other people who've had this experience. For a long while I have thought of it as "bi-location". Seems, stumbling onto your forum, I've found more than a few!

http://thetaobums.com/style_images/3/folde...icons/icon1.gif

 

Het Kat, thanx alot for the experience you shared here, im trying the points you mentioned very intresting !

 

Are these the correct points to press yust to be shure ?

 

http://www.yinyanghouse.com/acupuncturepoi...eridian_graphic

 

-> starting at PC 4 ending about a centimeter further when going towards PC5 ? a denser area between the tendons ? i seem to relax instantly when i energize this area a bit quit enjoyable to be honest.

 

And

 

http://www.yinyanghouse.com/acupuncturepoi...eridian_graphic

 

-> right next to LU 8 and right after where the round bone ends ?

 

Thanx alot and regards, Mike

Edited February 26, 2009 by minkus

[cheya]

 

 

Are these the correct points to press yust to be shure ?

http://www.yinyanghouse.com/acupuncturepoi...eridian_graphic

-> starting at PC 4 ending about a centimeter further when going towards PC5 ? a denser area between the tendons ? i seem to relax instantly when i energize this area a bit quit enjoyable to be honest.

And

http://www.yinyanghouse.com/acupuncturepoi...eridian_graphic

-> right next to LU 8 and right after where the round bone ends ?

Hey, Mike� you asked Kat exactly what I wanted to ask, and even provided graphics!
Thank you!

Kat, Thank you for sharing these points! I hope you can use Mike's graphics will help us pinpoint them more closely. Have you found other points with such unusual effects? How did you find them the first time?


Also, Deadman identifies the point nearest Kat's wrist point as Lung 9. Chinese name: Supreme Abyss!
And PC 5 is "Intermediate Messenger" or "Intermediary Courier." Anybody here versed in spiritual or esoteric acupuncture? Edited August 23, 2016 by cheya

[forestofsouls]

gold,

 

I tend to detect an anti-meditation bias in your posts. I wonder where this stems from--- perhaps a bad experience with a poor teacher. I, and many others, have experienced tremendous benefits from meditation. I've also encountered many anti-technique, "just be here now" folks that cannot demonstrate the least bit of concrete knowledge about themselves. I think selling this attitude to people with poor concentration and low equanimity skills can lead people down a dead end.

 

Meditation is a skill, like driving a car or learning a martial art. At first, there is a lot of clumsiness and effort, do this then do this. Over time, the forms can fade and one can do it spontaneously. But I would not advice simply jumping into a car or a sparring ring and being spontaenous.

 

A lot of problems can arise when meditation/spirituality is cloaked in mystical ideas. I also think people fail at meditation because they either 1) do not follow the instructions, or 2) do not simply put in the effort. In the West, many people have a "get it now attitude". How many people decide to learn a new skill or musical instrument and don't follow through?

 

There are different levels of relaxation and openness. When you relax spontaneously, it is authentic. When you relax on purpose, you have a goal in mind. If you have a goal in mind, you cannot match the spontaneous relaxation. This is why meditation is often/always a miserable failure. When you contrive to do something, you create more tension and activity. A state of lordliness is not having to do anything or to feel anything in particular. There is no wish to relax or to achieve any experience.

[goldisheavy]

Edited February 27, 2009 by goldisheavy

[forestofsouls]

gold,

 

What do you mean by contemplation? In some Chan circles, it means bare attention on objects of perception. Or are you referring to discursive thinking?

 

Mindfulness based meditation leads to direct perception of impermanance, non-self, non-duality, etc. These are not ideas, concepts, or mental formulations but actual experiences. You can literally see the solid world break down into fluidity. You thoughts will melt like snowflakes in summer. These experiences lead to insights which subtly change the very nature of your mind. Over time, you can build sensory clarity, equanimity, concentration power, and many other things. I don't know what your Zen master practiced, but I would wager his technique was flawed. I know plenty of people who have meditated for years, but are really watching home movies on their inner mental projector. This isn't really meditating, this is day dreaming. The same goes for those that sink into dullness.

 

When I read stories like the one you put below, I am thinking of the confusion between abosulte and relative truth. Absolute truth is that we do nothing. There are multiple causes and conditions that lead to a flurry of thoughts, feelings, and bodily sensations that propel us along. But if you were to tell some one, "Do nothing," then you would be giving bad advice. Relatively speaking, you can investigate your situation, develop some concentration skills, and become aware of your situation. So realtively, one may say "Go meditate." Most of these stories reflect the aboslute view. The trouble is, we start off in the relative view. Once you start mixing paradigms, you get into confusion.

 

I don't know if you're a fool or not. You might be completely enlightened and I'd be none the wiser. But google in advaita and you'll find legions who agree with you. Neo-advaitists will tell you, do nothing, you're enlightened. But go back to the great avaidist Ramana Maharshi of "Who am I?" fame and you'll find he prescribed specific concentration/meditation techniques before one could legitimately handle self-enquiry. But people say "The great sage says asking Who am I? is the highest teaching, this is what I'll do" and then they may engage in endless mental chatter. Sadly, the mental chatter leads to... more mental chatter. In order to view the world, you have to step back from it. The endless thinking is part of the problem. Bringing full attention to the thinking leads to solutions.

 

Feel free to talk--- I'm not really directing this at you anyway--- I doubt either of us will change our minds because of this talk.

 

This last part I quoted. This is based on a faulty premise. Meditation can take three basic forms: formal meditation, moving meditation, and meditation in life. This would be comparable to learning to pilot a boat in a pool, then in a stream, and then taking to the ocean. But it takes work, and dedication. The ego doesn't like you to develop concentration and mindfulness skills. The ego wants people to keep doing what they always do: bop along being pushed by arising thoughts, feelings, and sensations. When you get into it, you might find the body actually tenses to prevent you from going into high levels of concentration. Why is this? Because these practices undermine the ego's power. People groan, they resist, they reinterpret what they hear. But if it were easy, we'd all be enlightened.

 

What you don't do in meditation is to transcend the form. Ever. Meditation after all is defined with regard to a period of non-meditation, and this delineation gives it a recognizable form.

[goldisheavy]

gold,

 

What do you mean by contemplation? In some Chan circles, it means bare attention on objects of perception. Or are you referring to discursive thinking?

 

Contemplation is a process of deep, focused, sustained thinking on a certain topic, and then eventually on reality itself. It starts with the concepts and logic, and naturally, without artifice and without techniques arrives at transcendence of both concepts and logic. It culminates in an intimate familiarity with the non-duality between logic and the illogical and between concepts and non-conceptual.

 

Mindfulness based meditation leads to direct perception of impermanance, non-self, non-duality, etc.

 

There is no such thing as "direct" perception. Nor is there an "indirect" one.

 

These are not ideas, concepts, or mental formulations but actual experiences.

 

Wrong. That's exactly what these are. They are nothing but ideas and concepts. But to understand why, you have to contemplate! If you meditate you will be unable to arrive and the union of conceptuality and experience.

 

I don't know what your Zen master practiced, but I would wager his technique was flawed.

 

Nah, if you knew the Zen master and his life achievements, you'd not say that. Instead you'd bow down to him and probably worship him. His technique was flawless, but his wisdom was lacking. And I explained why. The reason for this is because he focused on doing, but not on "why". He never bothered to question his core beliefs. So he died with pretty much the same physicalist conception of the universe he was born with, except in the meanwhile he became an excellent meditator.

 

But if you were to tell some one, "Do nothing," then you would be giving bad advice. Relatively speaking, you can investigate your situation, develop some concentration skills, and become aware of your situation.

 

This is how I know you're a meditation zealot. When I suggest that meditation is just a tool and that it may or may not give the desired results, you interpret this as a call for "doing nothing". So to you, if you don't meditate, you're wasting your time. That's a result of mindless zealotry on your part. You've obviously never questioned the meaning of meditation.

 

You're probably not very aware, but I call for contemplation, and possible meditation. Contemplation is attending to a concern in the mind, thereby familiarizing oneself, relatively, with the core beliefs that structure the appearances in the mind in such a way as to give rise to the perceived problems. As one contemplates, it naturally subsides into a period of immersion. I don't bother distinguishing this period or giving it a name. However, that period is what true meditation is. It's not a technique. You cannot predict when and how it will arise. It is authentic in a sense that it's a natural consequence of having familiarized yourself with a concern, and results in a spontaneous mystical experience of transcendence that goes beyond explanations. It's not formal in any way and it's not a technique, but is a genuine expression of your heart.

 

This is not "doing nothing".

 

It's like in martial arts. You can be taught forms and then you internalize those forms into your subconscious. the advantage is, the forms are automatic. The disadvantage is: the forms are automatic. The same thing brings you the downfall! When you meet someone who is beyond form, you will produce incorrect forms as a response to spontaneous action in a fight, and this will be your downfall.

 

So I say there is no form. But that doesn't mean there is nothing to practice! There are instead some higher principles and also sparring. So you spar, and apply the abstract principles to your learning. If someone asks you what have you learned, you'd be damned to explain what it is, because it's not anything concrete. And yet you've familiarized yourself with something. It is highly practical and you should practice it in the middle of that which gives you a problem. So in martial arts the problem is a fight. In daily life it can be other things/situations.

[NeutralWire]

I'm the midway between goldisheavy and forestofsouls here, since the first two mental exercises in Bardon are 'contemplation' by the former's definition and the third is 'meditation' by the latter's.

 

The reason for this is because he focused on doing, but not on "why". He never bothered to question his core beliefs.

 

This is quite common with the Zen people, not sufficient focus on personality, beliefs, and interrelation to one's present time and place. In fact the Tibetan lineages have been accused of the same thing (by Bill Mistele amongst others). In Taoism this would be called cultivation of Essence (Xing) without cultivation of Life/Destiny (Ming).

 

 

EDIT: To clarify, exercise 1, Thought Control, of 'Initiation Into Hermetics' is equivalent to what goldisheavy calls 'contemplation'. It involves watching one's thoughts without interfering. Ultimately the flow of thoughts abates. Exercise 2 involves putting the flow of thoughts to a specific subject and making sure it stays there -- also a part of 'contemplation'. Exercise 3 involving sitting without thoughts.

 

All 3 of these are learnable skills, and now that I can do them, I see them all as equally important. Like goldisheavy I recognize great value in the ability to think neutrally in an uncensored manner, seeing the roots of beliefs and reflexive difficulties, and attaining personal insight.

 

Exercise 2 can usefully be extended with a couple of techniques from Greer's work, for example 'Sacred Geometry Oracle', in which, having learned to construct a particular form, you meditate on it. This meditation takes the form of Bardon's exercise 2, honed to a slightly finer point by sifting through all thought trails, picking one, and following it through to its conclusion.

 

I agree with forestofsouls that these are learnable skills. You can get good enough with them that when you want to just watch thoughts, you just watch -- when you want to guide and select thoughts, you guide and select -- when you want to move beyond thoughts, you move beyond.

 

I don't consider these in themselves enough to develop what I call 'wisdom' because it is hard to change beliefs and life patterns this way. For that task I prefer affirmation, self-hypnosis, storytelling, and various other things.

 

OT again but why not?

 

All best wishes,

 

~NeutralWire~

Edited February 27, 2009 by NeutralWire

[Guest artform]

Beginning last year i had annixety problems brought on by the job i had at the time (Redundancies). Everyday i was in emotional and physical discomfort. However one-day i was sitting in my car just about ready to walk back to work. For some reason i started to think about love (not girls, just the feeling of kindness, compassion and understanding), i started feeling very relaxed in my body and i seemed much taller than what i was.

 

I got into my work place to go back to work, and for some reason in my minds eye (you knowwhen you think about somthing, you kind of see it?) i could see this golden forest, The background was a bright gold colour and there were beautiful trees that were white shinning light out of them, these stretched out for what seemed infinate.

When i was walking around doing my work, where people were i could see a blue orb where their head was.

I could feel nothing but bliss in my body at the time this was happening.

It was wierd, though, i could see where i was going in the real world but i was also (seeing) this other place of wonder at the same time. it was like i was in two places at the same time.

 

It was funny really because as i felt differnt (bliss- not orgasm, just lovelyness) when i was talking to people they thought i was on drugs or somthing. lol

 

If anyone understands this..has it happened to anyone else?If so, any way to induce it?

 

 

Hi johntrevy! Welcome to this Forum!

 

Thank you for bringing this experience to light here. Stresses such as you were under can press our systems to the point of spontaneous openness along lines of possibilities that are there, but usually unknown or inaccessible to us. From other experiences you have reported in other threads or chats, you seem to have a level of openness that will bring these kinds of experiences to you. I too find that our rewiring opens these energetic realities. They invite us to look to energy transmutation: jing (orgasmic) to> chi (life force) to> shen (spiritual), IMHO and imperfect understanding.

 

Neuroscience is also opening up more potentials of the mind/body "being in the world"; biology and links with co-operation, altruism and other human values, as well as the work on "the spiritual brain". The autistic savant Daniel Tammet and his story and revelations with/through scientists, and the personal tragedy/recovery of Jill Bolte Taylor PhD neuroanatomist set out in her book: My Stroke of Insight also offer thoughtful reflections on the phenomenon you describe and many of us here share in some of its myriad forms. And thanks all for your explorations of meditation practices and other related experiences.

 

I look forward to more thread discussions with you here JT.

 

all the best spontaneous energetic reunions to all

 

artform

Edited February 27, 2009 by artform

[forestofsouls]

All three of Bardon's Step One mental exercises are shamatha (concentration) type disciplines. The first teaches the art of letting to, the second focus, and the third mental void. I don't practice mental void, at least not since my Bardon days.

 

In my practice, meditation has two main lines: shamatha and vipassana. Shamatha is developing concentration by limiting the mind (to varying degrees) on an object. The range and focus of the object may change. It can be a mantra, a colored disk, the breath, a bodily sensation, etc. Shamatha practices may lead to ecstatic states, but according to reports they usually end with the meditation.

 

Vipassana is penetrating the "objects". This is where one carefully attends to objects to see it clearly and precisely. An apparant object, on close examination may break down into constituent parts. Long term practice actually rewires the mind and how it processes information.

 

There are, of course, many other forms of meditation: self-enquiry, choiceless awareness, awareness watching awareness, letting go, dynamic meditation, etc. I think all of these require some degree of foundational concentration, to varying degrees.

 

The whole point of these practices is to change habitual mental patterns (along with practicing sila). It does so in a subtle way. As you learn more about the ultimate nature of things, you simply change with it. It's like Santa Claus--- once you realize he doesn't exist, you simply let go of the belief. It's gone. As you learn about you own mind, you begin to understand the universal nature of what others experience. This can breed compassion. As you learn that content/conditions DO NOT satisfy, your desire for things diminishes, and this leads to a whole host of changes. It's a magical process.

 

I don't consider these in themselves enough to develop what I call 'wisdom' because it is hard to change beliefs and life patterns this way. For that task I prefer affirmation, self-hypnosis, storytelling, and various other things.

 

OT again but why not?