The Observer

[el_tortugo]

What are your findings and understandings and relations with The Observer?

 

The Observer being that part of you which observes, found under different names in different traditions.

 

Like Lao Tzu on the innerlandscape diagram, HGA in ritual magick and so on.

[neimad]

What are your findings and understandings and relations with The Observer?

 

The Observer being that part of you which observes, found under different names in different traditions.

 

Like Lao Tzu on the innerlandscape diagram, HGA in ritual magick and so on.

7414[/snapback]

 

 

i consider that the observer is really you. it is you without words. without the encumberment of the brain (or switchboard) and it's incessant babbling.

[peter falk]

the pure consciousness, or as neimad said, the real you. it is essential to develop this "aspect" in the work if you areto ultimately get rid of the ego. that work starts with self-observation, and it is the observer that does that.

[BobD]

i consider that the observer is really you. it is you without words. without the encumberment of the brain (or switchboard) and it's incessant babbling.

My thoughts also. My Observer is often far too well buried in the encumberment, but its there somewhere!

[TwoTrees]

In watching the world, we go through thousands of processes. You may grow older in moments like these, you may understand something simple or something great, you may even see everything from further like arriving at a peak or so close you could not previously fathom how it is you've arrived at that place-things become more mysterious, more simple, more true, suddenly you feel like a human-music without a melody to conform habits.

 

All you are doing is being in the moment that you co-exist with all of the universe. There couldn't be better seats in the house!

 

How trivial, mean and unbearable would be a fully satisfied world, how sad without the lessons that observation brings.

You look over your life and simultaneously see the imperfection of the finished tasks, the hopelessness (or hopefulness) of the dimensions and the demands of the tasks awaiting you.

 

We see condensed in the whirl of only one moment - like the drowning unlearned - all the moments that we were a coward, lazy, a liar, selfish, the things we are less proud of and they sometimes threaten with flood over everything.

 

You can spend every second of your life observing without fail. But the recognition of ourselves could be the most edifying encounter, the greatest journey and the most frightening discovery...

 

 

While we are on the subject guys and gals, can you elaborate on some of your most valued observations? What kind of emotions connected you with your senses? When enraptured by such emotions it lets you tap deep into your truest self and sometimes if you are lucky, you can bring it forth and learn something of the universe's most valuable gifts:

the persistence of memory.

[Munch]

I recall Michael Winn saying that systems which set up an observer are dubious because their observer is not really neutral in the way that a yuan presence, i.e. the immortal foetus generated by kan & li, is.

 

But then he would say that, wouldn't he?

 

I would say this: if your observer uses words its value is questionable.

 

I think for many of us, (i.e. me ) what we call the observer is just a subsection of our ordinary thinking mind, which we use to notice when we have strayed from whatever we were trying to do, either in life or practice. Its job, therefore, is just to say "not this, thanks" with as little fuss as possible.

 

So in that sense of it, it's something that wants to become ever lighter and smaller, rather than being developed in the way we might think of developed.

 

As ever, just an opinion.

M

[el_tortugo]

I recall Michael Winn saying that systems which set up an observer are dubious because their observer is not really neutral in the way that a yuan presence, i.e. the immortal foetus generated by kan & li, is.

 

But then he would say that, wouldn't he?

 

I would say this: if your observer uses words its value is questionable.

 

I think for many of us, (i.e. me  ) what we call the observer is just a subsection of our ordinary thinking mind, which we use to notice when we have strayed from whatever we were trying to do, either in life or practice. Its job, therefore, is just to say "not this, thanks" with as little fuss as possible.

 

So in that sense of it, it's something that wants to become ever lighter and smaller, rather than being developed in the way we might think of developed.

 

As ever, just an opinion.

M

7445[/snapback]

 

 

Which brings me to the memories that I have of relating to this part of me is that it is more of a relationship with part of me that seems to be guiding way.

 

One thing I am culitvating is a wholeness of being.... conscious, unconscious and whateverelse... I will to not have my person pinched off and segmented.

 

The idea comes to mind that we only use about 5 to 10% of our brains not to mention becoming body conscious.... I would like to acsess as much as I can and remain balanced and helathy.

 

And for me on this way all the mythical and flowery descriptions and language of taoism has been very helpful to me. As I experience more I understand more of the phrases and know what they mean and I appreciate that things wern't all spelled outfor me. If I had things nicely defined, organized and explained I would probably stop at intelectualization and philosophizing. As a level or stage is reached I am bombarded with the coresponding animal, phrase or whatever that is in the Taoist descriptions of the phenomena.

 

I have been drawn lately to be more closely in cahoots with my 'observer' and have really been digging the idea of Lao Tzu sitting there with his long eyebrows.

 

Which reminds me to ask if anyone heard of white eyebrow kung fu?

[peter falk]

well, my computer just rebooted itself in the middle of typing my reply to this. computers ion china don't act like they do in the rest of the world. nevertheless, i'll try again.

 

i suppose we could define the observer as anything we want to. as such, the observer offered by some schools or systems is a sham. that doesn't denegrate the authentic observer at all, and it is known by various names in various systems.

 

as far as michael winn's comments, i do'nt differentiate between the immortal fetus and the observer. any true, conscious observer must be neutral by nature, or yuan in the taoist terminology. later the immortal fetus becomes the immortal child, an even wiser and more powerful observer.

 

some schools say you have to struggle for years to develop this. in some cases that's true. but not always. i for one was born with it and can remember it's presence as far back as i can remember anything. admittedly, some people never develop it or care to. psychopaths for example.

 

the observer is basically unconcerened with the external world (as i use the term), except insofar as the external world is out gymnasium or arena for psychological (includes spiritual) discovery. the obvserver is concerned with the internal elements that keep us isolated from our true selves, from dao. by observiung them, we are then able to purify ourselves further and expand our consciousness and increase our relationship with dao.

 

this is traditionally an important partof alchemical work in both east and west, though the models for approaching it differ.

 

the key to understanding the observer is that we are currently polarized with the external world for the gratification of our senses. the part of us that is like this in soime esoteric tradtions is called the ego. accept this and don't get bogged down in semantics. as i use the term ego here, i am referring to the part of us that is polarized for an affinity with the world of sensual gratification.

 

this ego is comprised of thousands of different elements each seeking it's own gratification and aggrandizement. as we serve it's desires, we further our isolation from the dao. as we diminish the ego, we increase our community with the dao.

 

in the HT system fo michael winn, he gives specific and powerful tools to deal with this. i don't know about mantak chia since i've never had him as a teacher.

 

this ego also isolates us from our fellow humans. the vast majority of people choose their friends and acquaintences based on how wellthey facilitate the gratification of their earthly desires. very few choose their friends based on how they push them spiritually to evlove.

 

so, the observer plays an important pivotal role in this awakening in that it shows us the elements in ourselves that we must transfor, that we must repolarize with the dao instead of earthly desires.

 

bear in mind that i am not talking about one's moral sense, which is bvased on an external ethical code. i'm talking about a spontaneous internal element from which te emerges as we contionue to evolve. this is not the intellect deciding to follow the ten commandments oir the buddha's right conduct. it is something deep and personal that has nothing to do with moral codes or religion.

 

i've rambled enough. perhaps i'll say more about this later since it's a topic that deeply interests me. but my nonergonmic arrangement here has my wrists and fingers sore.

[el_tortugo]

 

i've rambled enough.  perhaps i'll say more about this later since it's a topic that deeply interests me.  but my nonergonmic arrangement here has my wrists and fingers sore.

7494[/snapback]

 

Please do add more... as you know I am interested in your experiences and learnings over there... just havn't come up with specific questions yet.... perhaps this will lead to some.

[peter falk]

Please do add more... as you know I am interested in your experiences and learnings over there... just havn't  come up with specific questions yet.... perhaps this will lead to some.

7547[/snapback]

 

begin with this: observe yourself as much as possible during the dy. specifically, your reactions to things. what makes you mad? what makes you happy? what makes you disgusted? what makes you horny? what makes you annoyed? after you've observed the external thing that evokes your emotions, switch to seeing the internal element that is so responding. do not assume automatically it is something good or bad. observe it objectively. just do this day to day as much as you can.

 

ideally it sould be a constant state of awareness. realistically it will occur in flasshes or for short sustained periods. as you get into it, it will start to drive you crazy. you'll see things you never say before and things you don't understand. when it starts to make you crazy, when you are lost in the wonder and awe of it all for what's inside you, post to this forum and we'll continue.

[el_tortugo]

begin with this:  observe yourself as much as possible during the dy.  specifically, your reactions to things.  what makes you mad?  what makes you happy?  what makes you disgusted?  what makes you horny?  what makes you annoyed?  after you've observed the external thing that evokes your emotions, switch to seeing the internal element that is so responding.  do not assume automatically it is something good or bad.  observe it objectively.  just do this day to day as much as you can.

 

ideally it sould be a constant state of awareness.  realistically it will occur in flasshes or for short sustained periods.  as you get into it, it will start to drive you crazy.  you'll see things you never say before and things you don't understand.  when it starts to make you crazy, when you are lost in the wonder and awe of it all for what's inside you, post to this forum and we'll continue.

7552[/snapback]

 

 

what would you say if I say I think I am a bit past it making me crazy?

[peter falk]

what would you say if I say I think I am a bit past it making me crazy?

7554[/snapback]

 

then start getting to know those elements. see them. give them each a face or a shape, something that will make each one unique. notice if they are different from "the real you," the permanent center of gravity that acts as observer and spiritual guide. you can even enter into dialogue with them. it can be a form of meditation or just reflection. moment to moment, or setting time aside during the day to do it. make an inventory and develop relationships. s ee which ones work together or cooperate. soemtimes you can even diagram it on paper.