What's up with those pictures?

[sheng zhen]

I wouldn't go so far as to call one of those realities fake. That would imply there is a true reality waiting to be discovered. I'm afraid there is no such thing. Instead, the best we can hope for is to come up with a good story that is even half-way coherent and decent.

 

The word you might be looking for is "baseless" (without basis) instead of "fake".

 

It is said that both samsara and enlightenment are the products of mind. If you call samsara fake, then enlightenment is also fake.

Yes, baseless. Interesting! I like your thoughts! It took some time before I understood what you meant, but I think I do now. The framework has no real base to relate to and therefore has to make its own system of validation. We see this in all methods and religions. Kunlun has over 7000 masters in the spiritual planes that validate Max's work. But the thing is that you only get access to those masters if you enter their validation framework. Others see glowing hands. But the thing is that only those within that same validation framework are able to see the glow. So the "base" that validates the framwork is a creation of that framework. The consequence of this concept is really mindblowing.

 

By the way, I would certainly not hesitate to call most enlightening experiences fake

[farmerjoe]

It's fun watching various reality validation frameworks colliding like this.

 

The consequence of this concept is really mindblowing.

 

Yes! Wow!!! Thank you goldisheavy!!!!! Your original post regarding this has had a hold of me and I don't know what else to say but thank you! Thank you sheng zhen too for taking it further!!!! I don't normally use exclmation marks. Joe.

Edited March 4, 2009 by farmerjoe

[Spectrum]

 

Hey Vato! Whats That?

 

I have no idea ; was that joint laced?

 

Who WhoaMan No thats the Purple Nurple ...

 

Edited March 4, 2009 by Spectrum

[farmerjoe]

Is there someone who really knows the answers to the following questions as it applies to Kunlun? I think it is reasonable for me to want to understand "transmission" and what it is all about and on what level it all works before I allow it to be done to me, whether intentionally or via teaching "presence" which has been argued by some is the same thing. Thank you. Joe.

 

QUOTE(Mantra68 @ Sep 23 2008, 11:28 PM) *

 

I just spent a couple of days with Jenny. She is glad people are excited about her seminar. She will be more free in the next year to teach.

 

Here is a clip from about a year ago. It shows Max teasing her about being a "violent" Buddhist (she had just thrown a play kick at him). It also shows him demonstrating to her the results from mixing the Kunlun with the Maoshan methods.

 

His demo is on Chi Gung Master, Kan from Japan, whom many of you have met.

 

I thought you might find it interesting. Enjoy.

 

http://www.kunlunbliss.com/MaxJennyLA.mov

 

From : http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=6784&st=40

 

Max uses Maoshan methods to move Master Kan. He moves him with "bliss"? I have read that at the free lectures Max won't demonstrate this on people in the audience but only on his students because without someones consent he could hurt internal organs. Is this the Maoshan portion of Max's Kunlun practice? Is this a lower level form which does involve the mind and that's why it only moves people with their consent? Is this a form of black magic?

 

What about a transmission? Would a transmission involve the mind and be a lower level form? Or would the transmission be a higher level form and works with our higher self and without the mind and in conjunction with the Will of the Light? Joe.

[Spectrum]

(Mantra68 @ Sep 23 2008, 11:28 PM) *

Here is a clip from about a year ago. It shows Max teasing her about being a "violent" Buddhist (she had just thrown a play kick at him). It also shows him demonstrating to her the results from mixing the Kunlun with the Maoshan methods.

 

His demo is on Chi Gung Master, Kan from Japan, whom many of you have met.

 

I thought you might find it interesting. Enjoy.

 

http://www.kunlunbliss.com/MaxJennyLA.mov

 

From : http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=6784&st=40

 

This is the first time I have seen a video of Max. I like his pants. He can't walk straight cuz he's bound to be hiding something8=o)I Like what his fingers do.

 

He says something clearly @00:24 about mixing martial art ... ?

Edited March 4, 2009 by Spectrum

[baloneyx]

Like Mal, when I saw Vajrasattva's new photo I was stopped in my tracks too. I was looking at his palms and wondering what was going on with them.. the transmission was very strong and I was mesmerised. I am not a great one for jumping to conclusions and making conscious assumptions so I just gave thanks and love and carried on. They seem to be glowing, to me.

As for the Max photo's. I dont have an opinion particularly. I dont think I gave them any credence or thought, because the website is so cheesy and all that.. I just ignore everything that isnt straight from Max and practice related.

I'm afraid I don't think they're glowing, I wish they were but from my photo analysis it seems to be light from a window or something. Not saying his hands have no power, I just dont think they glow. I checked it out in photoshop and the shadows suggest to me light is coming to them not from them

[Aetherous]

Joe,

 

Is there someone who really knows the answers to the following questions as it applies to Kunlun? I think it is reasonable for me to want to understand "transmission" and what it is all about and on what level it all works before I allow it to be done to me, whether intentionally or via teaching "presence" which has been argued by some is the same thing. Thank you. Joe.

 

I also think it's reasonable. But seriously, if you think you're going to benefit from the K1/Yi Gong practice...just go to Sifu Jenny, or just stick with the book. You seem too shaken up by the Max side of things to actually benefit from it. It's actually good advice when people say "follow your gut/heart/instinct". You know what's best for you, so don't let your monkey mind doubt it. Everyone is different and doing what seems right is always right.

 

Max uses Maoshan methods to move Master Kan. He moves him with "bliss"?

 

Sometimes. I don't know how exactly it's done. It could also be a more "emptiness" type of "energy".

 

I have read that at the free lectures Max won't demonstrate this on people in the audience but only on his students because without someones consent he could hurt internal organs. Is this the Maoshan portion of Max's Kunlun practice?

 

Some of the practices could hurt people. But I think you're referring to the website where it talks about how Max doesn't teach Fa Jing at the seminars, which is basically just hitting someone with a lot of force.

 

Is this a lower level form which does involve the mind and that's why it only moves people with their consent?

 

No, it's a higher level practice which works best without the mind.

 

Is this a form of black magic?

 

When Max moves people? Who knows. Also how do you define black magic? But the practices are not black magic.

 

What about a transmission? Would a transmission involve the mind and be a lower level form?

 

The transmission seems to be a way of someone else opening up your energy body in a complementary way during K1/Yi Gong practice. Only facilitators and Max really know how to do it. Apparently there are things to look for, to know when to do each thing to the person. Apparently they give some of their energy to you during it.

 

If that makes you uneasy, then just don't do it, Joe. It's not necessary. Max said so, and Jenny said so. The way I see it, Max just does extra stuff to make things work faster.

 

Or would the transmission be a higher level form and works with our higher self and without the mind and in conjunction with the Will of the Light? Joe.

 

The transmission is just where when you're practicing, Max and others walk around and do certain things...like touch your back, or put their fingers on certain spots on your face or do something with the top of your head. I really don't know exactly what it is. There was some explanation for why certain things are done...for instance Max said that they touch the eyes for a few seconds because it helps to disengage the normal vision and open up the wisdom eye. I guess the only way to really know this stuff is to take the facilitator course.

 

I only know so much, and I feel bad that you don't get your questions answered...so I tried.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[farmerjoe]

Edited March 4, 2009 by farmerjoe

[Aetherous]

Joe,

 

You feel that Kunlun is right for you...but you don't want to waste your time going to a seminar if no one answers your questions here on the forum?

 

So what are your questions now that I've provided you with answers? Or am I not qualified to answer them for you, in your opinion?

[dizzydazzle]

Edited March 4, 2009 by dizzydazzle

[Sunya]

Please do not exaggerate. Guru Santi does not freely give anything. Everything he gives has a price and strict conditions on use. When you get some knowledge from him, you may do certain things with it, but you may not do certain other things, and so forth. And to receive it, you have to fulfill some conditions. Conditions are everywhere when Guru Santi is involved. And you have to pay money. I don't see Guru Santi say anything more than posting a smiley face, or a winkey face, or a one liner, or advertisement for a KAP class. In particular I haven't seen any in-depth elucidation or free sharing of real information.

 

For all I know he sells a great product, but he's a businessman and not a fount of free compassion that just oozes love in every direction with no strings attached.

 

hmmmm

 

i see where you are coming from, but you can't expect people to completely go out of their way to help you, especially when your issues aren't seemingly that important. if you had a real issue, no doubt he would help you.. and not charge you for it. but if you're pestering him about whether or not his photo is photoshopped, what do you expect?

 

i've had personal discussions with Mr Santi and found him to be of great help, and very nice. he won't caress your ego by explaining things to you in a fluffy voice when its really not that important. yes he charges but these are modern times, in the ancient times students took care of teachers.. these times teachers have mortgages to pay.

[Cameron]

Dizzydazzle and Scotty bring up interesting points.

 

Funny trying to say something serious to someone named Dizzydazzle

 

The reality is Scotty, myself and all the other people who do this practice really aren't qualified to answer these questions. Like I have gotten PM's asking about the Kunlun posture. It's really not my place to teach people Kunlun or Yi Gong.

 

The best we can do is share our experience with teachers here. Until one of us actually becomes a teacher and decides to post here regularly(not likely)we can only offer our experience and what little we know.

 

Scotty did sort of nail it in my opinion. The Kunlun teachers don't post here. More then likely they never will post here. So what most of these conversations on Taobums amount to is people asking very serious questions to beginner students.

 

Could you imagine walking into a traditional Taoist temple and going up to some novice asking "What is the Tao? What is Enlightenment? I don't feel like I am sure I want to study with your Master here can you tell me about the practices you have been taught?

 

It's absurd.

 

So to all the people who have spent weeks or months asking questions and wondering about this. I promise you. You will NOT get any info on Taobums about Kunlun that would be as good as seeing Max or Jenny in person.

 

We can go on and on in circles but the bottom like of all of this amounts to "We do Kunlun. We like Kunlun. For proper instruction you owe it to yourself to see teacher "a" or teacher "b" once. If it doesn't feel right to you then don't go".

 

Anything beyond this is irresponsible of both the person asking the question and the one answering. I'll put myself in this camp. I answered because I felt drawn to at the time but when a student says repeatedly "I do Kunlun. I like Kunlun. For proper instruction you owe it to yourself to see teacher "a" or teacher "b" once. If it doesn't feel right to you then don't go".

 

And other's repeatedly answer with "but..but..but". Your really not listening. And it might be a case where you should forget about Kunlun and do something else.

 

Cam

Edited March 4, 2009 by Cameron

[goldisheavy]

Yes, baseless. Interesting! I like your thoughts! It took some time before I understood what you meant, but I think I do now. The framework has no real base to relate to and therefore has to make its own system of validation. We see this in all methods and religions. Kunlun has over 7000 masters in the spiritual planes that validate Max's work. But the thing is that you only get access to those masters if you enter their validation framework. Others see glowing hands. But the thing is that only those within that same validation framework are able to see the glow. So the "base" that validates the framwork is a creation of that framework. The consequence of this concept is really mindblowing.

 

That's exactly what I am saying. I believe you understand me perfectly well.

 

By the way, I would certainly not hesitate to call most enlightening experiences fake

 

That's fine, and to my eye, as long as you unhesitatingly call the usual waking experience fake, all is fair n square and good under the heavens. The problems begin when people set fake against real, then take such distinction matter of factly and refuse to look at one's own distinction-making process honestly and consciously.

 

Me typing this message to the forum is a fake experience in the same way that enlightenment experience is fake. If delusion is real, then the absence of delusion is real as well. If delusion has the nature of a brilliant appearance, then the absence of delusion is just the same -- an insubstantial appearance.

 

hmmmm

 

i see where you are coming from, but you can't expect people to completely go out of their way to help you, especially when your issues aren't seemingly that important. if you had a real issue, no doubt he would help you.. and not charge you for it. but if you're pestering him about whether or not his photo is photoshopped, what do you expect?

 

i've had personal discussions with Mr Santi and found him to be of great help, and very nice. he won't caress your ego by explaining things to you in a fluffy voice when its really not that important.

 

Listen I want to make this perfectly clear. Being a businessman doesn't make the person evil. If you provide a fair service for a fair value, that's good for the world.

 

However! To mislabel the process of doing business as "free giving" is wrong, and is harmful for everyone involved in such mislabeling. That's because there is actual honest to God free giving going on in this world, and to call what businessmen are doing "free giving" is an insult to people who actually give freely.

 

Further, there is a huge difference between being given a certain "system" with many conditions on its use, and being given truly free information without any (!!!) intention to restrain its use. I don't want to spell this one out, because I don't want to reveal the naked Emperor even more plainly than I already have. I am not here to ruin people's business, but at the same time, there is only so much bullshit I can tolerate before I have to say something.

 

yes he charges but these are modern times, in the ancient times students took care of teachers.. these times teachers have mortgages to pay.

 

Look, Tilopa was a fisherman, Jesus was a carpenter, Namkhai Norbu is a college professor, Lao Tzu was a librarian, Saraha was a fletcher, and so forth. Many sages of the past and present of stature (arguably) infinitely greater than Mr. Santi had to hold down real jobs and help the world in material ways. And those sages that had no job, often ate as little as one meal a week or as much as one meal a day, and lived in a cave or a similarly humble dwelling. They owned one robe and one bowl and not much beside that. Those guys took donations, but they had modest lifestyles that made donation-taking a non-business activity. This was the case with someone like Milarepa for example. One time someone tried to give a horse to Milarepa and he refused, saying that he rides the horse of yoga and has no need for horses. But then again, Milarepa survived on nettle soup according to stories.

 

Cheers!

Edited March 4, 2009 by goldisheavy

[baloneyx]

okey doke, fair enough. you know what.. it doesnt actually make any diff to me in that everytime I glance at the image a slow smile spreads through me, and I recognise that smile. it's what shows up on your face when you get a wave of chi and peace..

one way or the other, it's there.

As long as it makes you happy that really is all that counts

 

I still wanna see a nice pair of glowing hands that leave me with no doubt sometime though

[Sloppy Zhang]

This is the first time I have seen a video of Max. I like his pants. He can't walk straight cuz he's bound to be hiding something8=o)I Like what his fingers do.

 

He says something clearly @00:24 about mixing martial art ... ?

 

First time seeing that vid too, interesting. I guess they turned on a light right as he started doing the first thing.... 'cause the room got really bright as soon as got into it, and I was like, "HOLY CRAP! wait.... was that just someone turning on the light?" but otherwise fairly interesting.

 

I think what he was talking about at 00:24 was this is what you get by mixing *something* (probably Kunlun? Sound was low on that one) and Maoshan. That's just what I heard though.

[Creation]

Please do not exaggerate. Guru Santi does not freely give anything. Everything he gives has a price and strict conditions on use. When you get some knowledge from him, you may do certain things with it, but you may not do certain other things, and so forth. And to receive it, you have to fulfill some conditions. Conditions are everywhere when Guru Santi is involved. And you have to pay money. I don't see Guru Santi say anything more than posting a smiley face, or a winkey face, or a one liner, or advertisement for a KAP class. In particular I haven't seen any in-depth elucidation or free sharing of real information.

 

For all I know he sells a great product, but he's a businessman and not a fount of free compassion that just oozes love in every direction with no strings attached.

 

It's fun watching various reality validation frameworks colliding like this.

 

I was happy when you said this, because it is essential to have this perspective when having these online conversations. In fact, I appreciate YOUR contributions to the Tao Bums because you keep people from going too far down their own rabbit hole to the point where they are not thinking clearly. And now I know what it is like to bear the brunt of your rigorous "contemplation", so thanks for that experience.

 

Regarding what you said to me specifically: From some perspective nothing is free, every action and every interaction between people produces some karmic effect. That is one way of looking at things. But what I was doing was expressing gratitude. Has anyone ever been kind to you before? Have you ever been grateful to another person? Can you truly not understand that I was just being grateful to one of my teachers?

 

Please forgive me for what your reality validation framework tells you was an exaggeration on my part. But Santi does not charge for the wisdom he shares with us on this forum. Maybe you do not see his words as wisdom, but I do and I was expressing gratitude for that. Also, if you have not felt anything from the picture, fine, but I did (at no cost that I can ascertain) and I wanted to thank him for that.

 

At the very least, I have had more interaction with Santi than you, so please don't think you know more than me about how generous he is and what he does or does not give away for free.

[Vajrasattva]

Please do not exaggerate. Guru Santi does not freely give anything. Everything he gives has a price and strict conditions on use. When you get some knowledge from him, you may do certain things with it, but you may not do certain other things, and so forth. And to receive it, you have to fulfill some conditions. Conditions are everywhere when Guru Santi is involved. And you have to pay money. I don't see Guru Santi say anything more than posting a smiley face, or a winkey face, or a one liner, or advertisement for a KAP class. In particular I haven't seen any in-depth elucidation or free sharing of real information.

 

For all I know he sells a great product, but he's a businessman and not a fount of free compassion that just oozes love in every direction with no strings attached.

 

 

Wow this really made me laugh!

 

hahaha!

 

So "GOLD IS HEAVY".....

 

When did you interact with me? Train with me? Share time with me? And when did you see me be a "business man"?

 

 

What makes you an authority to judge on what I do and what I don't do and what is "strict" and what can an can not be used?

 

When exactly did you train with me?

 

Peace

 

Santiago

 

 

 

As long as it makes you happy that really is all that counts

 

I still wanna see a nice pair of glowing hands that leave me with no doubt sometime though

 

 

Whatyou really need to do is spend more time learning to feel energy

 

You caught me I SPENT 9 hours in photoshop making that picture.

 

hahaha No seriously it is what it is. If you can see energy and feel energy you will see & feel it. I did nothing to image it just took that way.

 

 

Look, Tilopa was a fisherman, Jesus was a carpenter, Namkhai Norbu is a college professor, Lao Tzu was a librarian, Saraha was a fletcher, and so forth. Many sages of the past and present of stature (arguably) infinitely greater than Mr. Santi had to hold down real jobs and help the world in material ways. And those sages that had no job, often ate as little as one meal a week or as much as one meal a day, and lived in a cave or a similarly humble dwelling. They owned one robe and one bowl and not much beside that. Those guys took donations, but they had modest lifestyles that made donation-taking a non-business activity. This was the case with someone like Milarepa for example. One time someone tried to give a horse to Milarepa and he refused, saying that he rides the horse of yoga and has no need for horses. But then again, Milarepa survived on nettle soup according to stories.

 

Cheers!

 

??

again when did you come live with me?

 

[Vajrasattva]

It's fun watching various reality validation frameworks colliding like this.

 

I was happy when you said this, because it is essential to have this perspective when having these online conversations. In fact, I appreciate YOUR contributions to the Tao Bums because you keep people from going too far down their own rabbit hole to the point where they are not thinking clearly. And now I know what it is like to bear the brunt of your rigorous "contemplation", so thanks for that experience.

 

Regarding what you said to me specifically: From some perspective nothing is free, every action and every interaction between people produces some karmic effect. That is one way of looking at things. But what I was doing was expressing gratitude. Has anyone ever been kind to you before? Have you ever been grateful to another person? Can you truly not understand that I was just being grateful to one of my teachers?

 

Please forgive me for what your reality validation framework tells you was an exaggeration on my part. But Santi does not charge for the wisdom he shares with us on this forum. Maybe you do not see his words as wisdom, but I do and I was expressing gratitude for that. Also, if you have not felt anything from the picture, fine, but I did (at no cost that I can ascertain) and I wanted to thank him for that.

 

At the very least, I have had more interaction with Santi than you, so please don't think you know more than me about how generous he is and what he does or does not give away for free.

 

 

Thank you I am glad you appreciate!

[forestofsouls]

goldisheavy, your posts sound bitter. I hope this is just the nature of the posts, and not evidence of deeper rooted negative emotions.

 

Santiago charges very little for what he offers. Very little. In ancient, agrarian societies, there may have been a place for wandering spiritual gurus, but the West is a bit different. Master Sheng Yen said that when Buddhism came to China, it had to change because there was no support system in place at the time for forest monks. So there was Zen, using daily life as its practice.

 

In the modern West, things that are given freely are often undervalued. Gurdjieff wrote a story about a man who bought hot peppers by mistake, thinking it a cooler fruit. But because he paid for it, he ate every one with sweat streaming down his face. Maybe this is food for contemplation.

Edited March 4, 2009 by forestofsouls

[baloneyx]

 

Whatyou really need to do is spend more time learning to feel energy

 

You caught me I SPENT 9 hours in photoshop making that picture.

 

hahaha No seriously it is what it is. If you can see energy and feel energy you will see & feel it. I did nothing to image it just took that way.

 

 

Nah I'm cool for now

 

I never said you photoshoped it, I just said I used photoshop to tweak it and analyse it. Besides glows and stuff like that are a 5 minute job

 

Maybe someday I'll feel it and see it, but for now I am limited to seeing it as light shinnying down upon your hands

[sheng zhen]

Do see the glowing hands of this guy? He can heal you, you know.

 

DISCAIMER: this video contain energyprojection. Open at own risc. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-40EGOm6ms...feature=related

 

I wish every photo or video which projects energy could show a disclaimer first so that those of us who dont want that energy can choose to not recieve it.

Edited March 4, 2009 by sheng zhen

[Vajrasattva]

Nah I'm cool for now

 

I never said you photoshoped it, I just said I used photoshop to tweak it and analyse it. Besides glows and stuff like that are a 5 minute job

 

Maybe someday I'll feel it and see it, but for now I am limited to seeing it as light shinnying down upon your hands

 

 

haha the editing has no chi but the original image has chi.

[fiveelementtao]

Do see the glowing hands of this guy? He can heal you, you know.

 

DISCAIMER: this video contain energyprojection. Open at own risc. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-40EGOm6ms...feature=related

 

I wish every photo or video which projects energy could show a disclaimer first so that those of us who dont want that energy can choose to not recieve it.

sheng zhen, I don't know if you are kidding or not... The problem with Moxite's test is that the posture of "hold your palms toward the screen, have an open mind and believe in absolutely nothing" whether sitting or standing is ALREADY a Qigong posture. If you hold that posture with a still mind for three minutes and 40 seconds (the length of the 'test'), anyone will feel Qi move through their body and fill their hands. If this starts to happen, the participant begins to think, "Oh, my God! It's working." and then the imagination kicks in and starts a snowball effect. After the "test" he states that "if you had any form of sensations... like tingling, warmth etc... you have experienced 'Xi". Well, yeah, you just sat or stood in a qigong posture for 3 1/2 minutes. of course you felt something! Try doing the exact same posture and mindset away from the computer and you will have an identical experience. I am not saying whether this guy has healing powers or not, I don't know. But his test is (at the very least) flawed...

[baloneyx]

haha the editing has no chi but the original image has chi.

hmmm... maybe I need to invent some new software which allows you to manipulate images without having them lose their powers

 

EDIT: maybe you could help me by providing me analysis of the images before and after manipulation

Edited March 4, 2009 by baloneyx