What's up with those pictures?

[dizzydazzle]

This might be Cams last post.

 

 

 

So..my feeling is it's best for us to have a neutral and unattached view towards all of this.

 

Some of your posts, in this very thread, don't seem to comply with this statement. The problem has been that even constructive criticism or valid questions - that seem unpleasant to Kunluners or questioning the authority, sincerity or any other relevant aspect of Kunlun's entourage - have been grouped with Patrick Brown/Spirit Ape stuff, which is totally incorrect. These probably deserved some space and thought, if not to the extent to which Chris marketed the technique here. And a neutral and unattached view would not have permitted this to happen. I am glad that the "don't question, try it or leave it, do it yourself" kind of attitude is no longer the dominating one. The technique and the book were marketed on this forum, and it is but natural that people are going to ask questions. More so, if one is considering paying up for the seminar.

 

Whatever I say is irrelevent if you keep feeling that studying with a certain teacher is not going to be a good path for you.

 

That really is not the issue. The issue is with some statements that were made glorifying the technique and the teacher and suggesting this was THE one. And most such statements did not start or end with IMO, IMHO or I think so. And such statements came within weeks of practicing Kunlun or seeing Max. Let's be practical ... inner instincts or whatever we want to rely on, does get influenced with the hype, marketing and stuff. If one would like to take credit for introducing a group to a something good, the share of bad from those who were harmed by it cannot be ignored. An over enthusiastic attempt to express solidarity with Chris/Max has mostly found an incorrect expression on this forum.

 

That said, I haven't seen anything posted by anyone doing Kunlun that would be called irresponsible.

 

You seem to change your statements soon.

 

I guess what it boils down to is though I feel strongly the Kunlun path and teachers are worth checking out for basically *anyone* I am still mostly in the space of "I don't know".

 

This is exactly the kind of statements I was referring to. Some may like to do something based on their gut and some others don't. When there are too many don't knows and won't tells or will tell stories, some don't feel comfortable. And what really is the criteria to state something like the above for "anyone" when the space is filled with "don't knows"? Why should one claiming to not know most of the stuff associated with Kunlun, jump at those asking questions and scream: "Let it go, let the practice speak for itself, max is a bodhisattva and what he says should be right"? We can stay quiet if we don't know the answer and let someone who knows asnwer? Why the compulsive need to reply to anything and everything about Kunlun? Is this again a way of expressing goodwill to Max and crew? It simply beats me ...

 

Let's assume those with "I don't know" said only relevant things and things they knew to an extent. If that were the case, Kunlun folks (Max and entourage) would not assume that Taobums could serve as a Kunlun community for those who wanted to work with the book alone (He made that statement on this very forum) and leave folks to the mercy of good Lord. They would then probably have a section of their community opened up for those using the book alone, taken more time to answer questions and answer them seriously or at least state clearly, "If you attend less than a dozen seminars or practice with the book alone, you could be in trouble and you won't have any help from someone who knows alchemy but for some infatuated talk on Taobums". It's no secret that Taobums was responsible to a large extent for the selling of the Kunlun book as also the rise in the number of Kunlun seminars. And why can't the same Taobums question when the consumers of Max's products are unhappy with the followup service? Why should someone be beaten to death and made to stop posting on this forum altogether for questioning the "One seminar is enough propaganda" (I don't remember the name of the lady who stopped posting after a discussion in this regard)...

Edited March 5, 2009 by dizzydazzle

[farmerjoe]

Actually I was trying my best to answer Joe's questions. He raises some valid points. Many of his questions are what several "advanced" practitioners should be asking.

 

You give me too much credit, surely "what is a transmission" and how will it affect me, general "what am I consenting to" are beginner questions, things I should know to maintain and keep the gift of my free will and right to choose. Joe.

[Ya Mu]

You give me too much credit, surely "what is a transmission" and how will it affect me, general "what am I consenting to" are beginner questions, things I should know to maintain and keep the gift of my free will and right to choose. Joe.

 

Ah, but YOU have thought about effects of "will it allow me to keep my fee will and right to choose." It is a question that is important.

Again I don't know a thing about Kunlun but what I do know is it would take some serious brainwashing to actually make you or anyone else believe that they had no free choice. And that is what it would be. I know of no "energy system" that really takes this away. We all have the right to choose. To me, making the right choice is all about stopping the world so as to tune into NOW, then make the decision from the heart. Since we live in a dynamic world, in a constant state of flux, this choice could change from moment to moment.

 

But from your post above detailing Max's known history it seems to me that you know as much as anyone about him.

[Vajrasattva]

Cat & Mal,

 

From the most sublime point in my heart,

 

THANK YOU & GOD BLESS!: )

 

Love

 

Santiago

[Cameron]

To those who responded to my last post,

 

It was addressed to Scott. I met Scott in person. I consider him a friend and was adressing a post he had written in this thread.

 

Now people like Spectrum and Dizzydazzle have issues with stuff I wrote.

 

It's fine. I have issues. We all have issues

 

Here is the thing..I don't care what your opinion is of me or what I have written. I don't know you. That was one of the points I was making to Scott.

 

Even if I love Kunlun how the heck am I supposed to know by the mishmash of words and ideas any of you have written if it would be a good practice for you or not? The advice that has been given here repeatedly is if it interests you check out the book, check out the free lecture.

 

Now someone like Specrum essentially get's upset because Kunlun practitioners don't put up videos of themselves practicing Kunlun which I found deeply offensive at the time since we were told by our teachers not to do this. Then has the arrogance to question our teachers wishes. Teachers who have devoted every day of their lives to practice and I get a little upset realizing I am in a community that is not full of friends and say I won't post anymore.

 

Then after a moment of reflection I realize I do have many friends here. You can't be best friends with everyone. That's how it goes sometimes. But since I do like most people here I changed my mind and will keep posting.

 

So to repeat,

"We do Kunlun. We like Kunlun. For proper instruction you owe it to yourself to see teacher "a" or teacher "b" once. If it doesn't feel right to you then don't go".

Edited March 5, 2009 by Cameron

[dizzydazzle]

The advice that has been given here repeatedly is if it interests you check out the book, check out the free lecture.

 

"We do Kunlun. We like Kunlun. For proper instruction you owe it to yourself to see teacher "a" or teacher "b" once. If it doesn't feel right to you then don't go".

 

 

Well, that you think you should "advice" people and that the advice is beneficial is where the root of the problem lies! Like every other post, you contradict yourself by saying you know not much about the practice, its history or energetics but still consider yourself capable of giving advice nevertheless! Moreover, when advice is thrown freely and unasked, into an open arena, one should learn to deal with the resulting criticism with some maturity. And words are not always the issue; the intent and the energy projected though are of concern as they influence the listener or reader. That a self professed beginner wants to advice and through highly assertive and declarative statements is simply condescending.

 

[Friends, best friends, not friends, won't post, will post, will advice] = not letting go <-> Kulun? May be - Tao? I doubt

 

And you should stop threatening you won't post anymore! Doesn't get laughs any more

 

Take care ..

Edited March 5, 2009 by dizzydazzle

[Cameron]

Well, that you think you should "advice" people and that the advice is beneficial is where the root of the problem lies! Like every other post, you contradict yourself by saying you know not much about the practice, its history or energetics but still consider yourself capable of giving advice nevertheless! Moreover, when advice is thrown freely and unasked, into an open arena, one should learn to deal with the resulting criticism with some maturity. And words are not always the issue; the intent and the energy projected though are of concern as they influence the listener or reader. That a self professed beginner wants to advice and through highly assertive and declarative statements is simply condescending.

 

[Friends, best friends, not friends, won't post, will post, will advice] = not letting go <-> Kulun? May be - Tao? I doubt

 

And you should stop threatening you won't post anymore! Doesn't get laughs any more

 

Take care ..

 

 

Wow. Ok. let's see.

 

I do know more about Kunlun then other's here. OK? I have taken a bunch of workshops and have my experiences. That doesn't mean I consider myself to have any great knowledge about Kunlun.

 

The fact that I know more about it than other's on Taobums who have never done it isn't saying much

 

I am not into personally attacking others anymore. I said what I said about Spectrum and it's off my chest. But I am just not going to "go there" anymore.

 

I sincerely do wish you all the best whatever you practice. It get's rough in here sometimes and feelings sometimes get hurt. It's just the karma of this place for some reason.

 

Kunlun is the Tao? I don't think I said that. I don't think I am that arrogant. It's a powerful practice no doubt as others here have found not just myself.

 

And I don't think me saying I like Kunlun and that the woman who brought Kunlun here from China says you should see her or Max before you practice is me giving advice. It's me repeating advice-from the teacher.

 

If your going to make a problem or issue out of this then I really do throw in the towel. Because I don't buy that you really care about students interested in this practice but just like to fuss and argue. So I won't add any more energy to that.

 

Cam

Edited March 5, 2009 by Cameron

[dizzydazzle]

I am not into personally attacking others anymore. I said what I said about Spectrum and it's off my chest. But I am just not going to "go there" anymore.

 

 

Time will tell if you're really done

 

And you can edit and delete whatever you said about Spectrum ... hush hush ... I promise I won't utter a word

[gendao]

Max told me at the first free talk I met him about his "aunties". I mean it was one of the very first things he told us. Maax has studied with many people. Two of the main ones have been mentioned on Taobums before including Jenny. The other main one is Max's Maoshan Sifu in Hawaii. Max learned the Red Phoenix practice from this teacher.

Hmm, who was the other aunty mentioned by Max, btw? I don't seem to recall hearing about another one...

[Cameron]

He doesn't talk about them much. From what he told us at the first workshop lecture(you weren't there but at the workshop the next day) they are crazy high level. Ask Max about it next time you see him

Edited March 5, 2009 by Cameron

[gendao]

He doesn't talk about them much. From what he told us at the first workshop lecture(you weren't there but at the workshop the next day) they are crazy high level. Ask Max about it next time you see him

Well, I remember him talking about some Beijing aunties and other masters who had some pretty impressive telekinetic, dematerialization and manifestation powers...

 

But just didn't remember another one specifically mentioned here (other than Jenny)?

[Aetherous]

What the hell is wrong with people?

 

I shouldn't even put a laughing smiley face. I'm kind of pissed at the total lack of respect shown towards Cam.

 

This forum just gets so ridiculous sometimes. Is it that hard to understand that people know a little but not everything when they share info? Is it that hard to understand that when you ask a question, you will get responses from people who may or may not be right in what they say? At least we're honest and give the disclaimer that we don't know it all...you won't find that often in spiritual circles.

 

The way I see it, anyone who has been to a seminar is QUALIFIED to share what they've experienced. Anyone who has put in the time and practice is more than qualified. It can be really helpful to get tips from them. We are not teachers or facilitators, but if you just totally discount our input, you're missing out on a lot of information. I listen to every Kunlun practitioner no matter what their status is, and it's helped me a lot.

 

By the way, Max hasn't certified any teachers of Kunlun. A teacher and facilitator are different things. So if you're asking ANYone a question, besides Max, you will just be asking a fellow practitioner and not someone who really knows the answer.

 

Anyway, thanks to "dizzydazzle" I'm seriously thinking about just not even saying anything at all at this forum anymore. At least about the Kunlun topic. I always thought that saying "don't cast pearls before swine" was rude, and that everyone deserved a chance...but dizzy really has me second guessing that.

 

People try to help out newbies who seem to have real questions and get shit on for no good reason. What's up with that? I don't like seeing Cam have to deal with this constant taunting and rude behavior.

 

Spectrum once said something about this being like buddies around a campfire sharing knowledge...but these guys recently have not been acting like buddies. They're just being jerks and I truly don't see WHY.

 

And then "farmerjoe" is creating some dramatic story about Max based on the little that he knows, to justify his fears. That kind of behavior is despicable in my opinion, Joe. I will not be sharing any more information with you. Just go to a seminar and see for yourself how it all works. Or don't, but don't expect people to give you an answer to every question you ask. It seems like a waste of time to me.

 

I'm not getting paid or anything for being here. I'm not affiliated with some evil Kunlun organization which spreads misinformation. Just trying to be nice and have a good time exploring different practices. I would appreciate it if people who weren't involved would share info with me, so that's why I've done it. It's an unbiased glance at what's involved, for free. Why people don't appreciate that, I won't understand.

 

So yeah, rant over. I won't be posting in this topic anymore thanks to Spectrum, farmerjoe, and dizzy.

 

Peace.

[freeform]

Mr DizzyDazzle,

 

I'm unimpressed. You're taking a very smug, arrogant attitude with Cam, and I don't appreciate it.

 

This forum is for discussion - this is not a press conference, we're not representatives, or spokes-people. We're fellow cultivators that share our journey. If you look throughout the site everyone gives each other recommendations - we all understand the implications of an open forum.

 

Please feel free to share your cultivation experience - I would honestly love to find out more about you. But watching you just paint your 'wise' judgment all over these issues with a sarcastic brush is not enjoyable - especially if in the process you disrespect long-standing forum participants.

[Vajrasattva]

Cam is good peoples

[dizzydazzle]

Please ... give me something new

 

Scotty and Freeform running to Cam's defence... the same bunch of Kunluners out to silence a few voices of reason? Sounds familiar!

 

And freeform, are you kidding? Long standing and too much of writing is not wisdom...is it?

Edited March 5, 2009 by dizzydazzle

[Cameron]

Well, I remember him talking about some Beijing aunties and other masters who had some pretty impressive telekinetic, dematerialization and manifestation powers...

 

But just didn't remember another one specifically mentioned here (other than Jenny)?

 

 

Same ones(Beijing). But if you can corner him in Texas and get any more info let us know!

 

He mentioned them again in his last post on Kunlun Forum.

 

Regarding everything else. Just let it go. There is nothing to argue about. It's all been said already.

 

Best wishes to everyone

[Smile]

Hey, Cam is a great guy, and I will stand up for him any time. I may have some issues with Kunlun website and how they market things, but people that run it are genuine. So is Santiago.

[farmerjoe]

And then "farmerjoe" is creating some dramatic story about Max based on the little that he knows, to justify his fears. That kind of behavior is despicable in my opinion, Joe. I will not be sharing any more information with you. Just go to a seminar and see for yourself how it all works. Or don't, but don't expect people to give you an answer to every question you ask. It seems like a waste of time to me.

 

I didn't create any of it but took it from posts that where added to this site by Mantra/Chris Tittle. I created none of it. I would be happy to cut and paste or add links to everything that I have read. Cameron's dramatic post of not being qualified and yours came after one of my posts where I stated that I didn't think that anyone here could answer my questions. Go back in this thread and take a look or would you like me to cut and paste that too? I've learned a lot here. Mostly if I should ever make it out to a Max free lecture I now know what I personally need to ask him. I at no time disrespected the teacher or the practice and have thanked all of you many times for sharing and your patinence. How does that qualify as being despicable? Joe.

 

 

Ah, but YOU have thought about effects of "will it allow me to keep my fee will and right to choose." It is a question that is important.

 

Thank you but apparently others don't seem to be in agreement with you and see "thought" as being despicable. Joe.

Edited March 5, 2009 by farmerjoe

[gendao]

Same ones(Beijing). But if you can corner him in Texas and get any more info let us know!

 

He mentioned them again in his last post on Kunlun Forum.

 

Regarding everything else. Just let it go. There is nothing to argue about. It's all been said already.

 

Best wishes to everyone

Ok, although I'm not sure what more to ask him about them...like what, drop some names? Or maybe just their schools and lineages?

 

Actually, I would like to know how familiar he is with longmen pai or mo pai...along with many other questions. Especially regarding the relation between "Buddhist enlightenment," "Taoist" immortality and yogic union with the Tao, where Gold Dragon Body falls in with all this and what exactly the "One Law" he talks about is? ETC.

 

Anyhow, if you have anything you'd like me to ask, let me know. Definitely can't guarantee I'll get to asking them (as he is usually swarmed), but I'll keep any questions in mind if the opportunity or topic arises...

 

BTW, if anyone is going to the Dallas or Austin workshops and wants to split a room, let me know. I'll probably need one myself at this point.

[freeform]

And freeform, are you kidding? Long standing and too much of writing is not wisdom...is it?

 

I usually am kidding at least a little - but I never said anything you're alluding to there.

 

WTF are you doing raking shit here for!?

 

You've cultivated for 30 years! and studied with some great masters - write us a thread about that! it's far more interesting than the melodrama you're trying to resurrect...

[Ya Mu]

...

Thank you but apparently others don't seem to be in agreement with you andsee it as having been despicable. Joe.

 

Most of the time people don't agree with me and perhaps they shouldn't; I could really be a 90 year old grandmother just messing with people's heads

 

Don't take anything personal or too serious on a public forum cause there are a lot of 90 year old grandmothers that post just for kicks.

 

BUT methinks thou dost worry too much Translation - brain getting in the way of having fun.

[Unconditioned]

Please ... give me something new

 

Scotty and Freeform running to Cam's defence... the same bunch of Kunluners out to silence a few voices of reason? Sounds familiar!

 

And freeform, are you kidding? Long standing and too much of writing is not wisdom...is it?

 

On either side of the argument lies a judgment/belief: Kun Lun is bs (same with emitting light, etc.) and Kun Lun is legit (along with taking pictures of emitting light).

 

Each of us has a propensity towards skepticsm or acceptance but at the root of each is conditioned belief and a judgment call about each.

 

Most of this thread feels like people have made up their minds and are finding evidence to support their decision. I think there are better uses of time personally.

 

If you don't belief Kun Lun is legit, that's fine.

If you do believe that it's legit, that's fine.

 

Why try to prove or disprove one another?

[Aetherous]

Unconditioned....

 

Someone with a brain! Thank you. I agree 100%.

[baloneyx]

hmmm....

I think we could use one of those love charged pictures right about now

[sheng zhen]

hmmm....

I think we could use one of those love charged pictures right about now

We should call Patric Brown, he knows pictures!