Can Suppression lead to

[alfa]

Can the suppression of thoughts (leading to a blank state of mind) help in attaining the same state we achieve if we take LSD, like floating, seeing space and time disappear and all that? Is a blank mind important to achieve this state?

[CarsonZi]

Hi alfa,

Can the suppression of thoughts (leading to a blank state of mind) help in attaining the same state we achieve if we take LSD, like floating, seeing space and time disappear and all that? Is a blank mind important to achieve this state?

If you are trying to achieve an LSD-like state of mind, why not take LSD? If you are trying to acheive a "blank" mind I suggest trying the technique of "thought dropping" during the day with an addition of a twice daily practice of Deep Meditation to train the mind not to attach to thoughts. That said, a blank mind is not important. There will always be thoughts....but YOU are not your thoughts and knowing this will be key to learning to not attach to your thoughts. Meaning, it is not your thoughts that are the problem, it is you ATTACHING to the thoughts that can become a problem. So to answer your question, no, a blank mind is not important to acheive a state of mind similar to the state of mind encountered while tripping on acid. And if you are looking to "achieve" a similar state of mind to an LSD trip, I suggest forgetting meditation and thought dropping and just dropping tab. Why this particular state of mind would be important to you, I'm not sure. Perhaps you care to elaborate?

 

Love,

Carson

[alfa]

Hi alfa,

 

If you are trying to achieve an LSD-like state of mind, why not take LSD? If you are trying to acheive a "blank" mind I suggest trying the technique of "thought dropping" during the day with an addition of a twice daily practice of Deep Meditation to train the mind not to attach to thoughts. That said, a blank mind is not important. There will always be thoughts....but YOU are not your thoughts and knowing this will be key to learning to not attach to your thoughts. Meaning, it is not your thoughts that are the problem, it is you ATTACHING to the thoughts that can become a problem. So to answer your question, no, a blank mind is not important to acheive a state of mind similar to the state of mind encountered while tripping on acid. And if you are looking to "achieve" a similar state of mind to an LSD trip, I suggest forgetting meditation and thought dropping and just dropping tab. Why this particular state of mind would be important to you, I'm not sure. Perhaps you care to elaborate?

 

Love,

Carson

 

What I mean is, I want some out of the ordinary experience like LSD without taking LSD. I was wondering whether suppression can help me achieve that. This particular state seems fascinating, it's so different from the boredom that we experience every day, that's why I am keen.

[DaoChild]

I'm sure some people will say yes - but I don't think so.

 

Most often, the experience I get is of limitlessness. I feel alive, but empty, full of understanding since there is no concept of self.

 

When I get into "The groove" I don't judge anything, and the result is that I feel like the center of the cosmos. There is nothing that affects me, as I am a mountain that the sun passes over. It's a pretty cool feeling of liberation.

[goldisheavy]

Can the suppression of thoughts (leading to a blank state of mind) help in attaining the same state we achieve if we take LSD, like floating, seeing space and time disappear and all that? Is a blank mind important to achieve this state?

 

I see some confusion going on here. A state of mind that's engaged in suppression of something is not what I would call "blank". But then again, I don't define darkness as "the absence of light" either -- that would be a cognitive bias in my biased view.

 

With that out of the way, I would answer "yes" to the first question and "no" to the second. To understand why I say that, please contemplate the nature of meaning. For example, what is the meaning of breath? Can you know what a breath is, without knowing what a lung is? And can you know what a lung is, without knowing what a human is? And can you know what a human is, without knowing what a humanity is? And can you know what a humanity is without knowing what a universe is? Thus, to be aware of breath, as a meaningful experience, you must be aware of the entire context -- this is obvious to me. However, what happens when you are asked to focus on the breath? You are asked to ignore some of the context. How far will you go? Well, you can put the universe on the back burner, or perhaps forget it completely. If you forget the universe, the meaning of humanity will alter subtly but significantly. Can you go further? Sure! You can forget humanity -- then the meaning of what it means to be human will alter subtly but significantly. And so forth. By the time you forget what a lung is, the meaning of breath has been so removed from its context, that it's no longer a breath at all. The resulting experience is then described variously depending on the mindset of the person contemplating said experience. Person A says the resulting experience is a distortion, because instead of seeing the truth of breath, you see something that's been warped by removal of the context. Person B says the resulting experience is the essence of the breath. Person C says Person A and B are both right, and there is paradoxically no contradiction. And there are more possibilities.

 

So, if a person produces a tear within the context of meaning by using intent, the person experiences a "mystical" experience. It's called mystical because, obviously, it has no place within the ordinary context (duh!). This experience is short lived, because the change in the context is not authentic at the ground level of being, but it is instructive, especially for a contemplator! For a contemplator this kind of experience should aid with insight into the nature of phenomena. For a non-contemplating meditator this is potentially an attractive bait that will seduce the person to seek more and more of these experiences without understanding even an iota of the wisdom behind it.

 

So, I'm answering "no" to the second question, because context can be changed in ways that are more subtle and more gradual and more well-integrated than a momentary tear produced via an intense intent on suppression of thought.

 

To suppress thought means to essentially reduce an ordinary scope of consideration, which can be instructive for a contemplator, but useless for everyone else. Contemplators can get similar wisdom from other approaches, however.

 

There is also a little bit of confusion over the meaning of "thought". Depending on what you mean by the word "thought," it may be that thought cannot be suppressed at all. Suppression itself may be viewed as a thought.

Edited March 3, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Spectrum]

Can the suppression of thoughts

 

edit: ahh, it's not supression, it's letting it go, like recognizing the space between the notes and letting the beat slow down, and lengthen the pauses... until there are no notes, just a beat... then... lengthen that...

 

yeah fasting creates a biofeedback loop. it's not suppression if you see it as a valve of expression your turning upon. i mean if you eat shit your not going to know how good a fresh apple is, but if you've not had any food for a few days then suddenly that wholesomeness is pretty damn good. So in a basic terms this is what is meant by drawing the senses inward, from the taoist perspective the sesnes use chi. by tuning the senses inward for a time when they take in the primary information that is actualy kneeded and processes it differently, firing across the synapses.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Spectrum