How to properly thank a person

[goldisheavy]

It seems to me that some people here are confused with regard to expressing gratitude, so I wanted to make this explicit.

 

If someone does something good for you in private, you thank them in private. You should never thank someone publicly for something that person did in private.

 

If someone does something good for you in public, it is appropriate but not absolutely required that you thank them in public. If you thank someone in private for something they've done publicly, that's OK.

 

In general your gratitude should be expressed within the same exact scope that the action you're thankful for was committed. So if something good was committed in one forum, you don't go to a completely different forum to thank the same person. You thank them in the same exact forum. Doing so aligns the scope of the gratitude with the scope of that which you are grateful for.

 

If you receive a secret spiritual revelation, you don't proclaim your gratitude for it on the street. You express your gratitude in secret, unless you want to remove the veil of secrecy and make what has been revealed to you public, then you can express your gratitude publicly.

 

I hope this is clear. If anyone doesn't understand why you should never thank someone publicly for something they've done in private, please ask. I hope it's obvious, but if not, I will explain it.

Edited March 4, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Creation]

Dear goldisheavy,

 

I have read many brawls on this forum and I swore to myself that I wouldn't not get involved in any. But a brawl came looking for me. I can choose to ignore it, or I can try to deal with it in the most positive way I can. I choose the latter.

 

Even after I explained why I said what I said about Santiago "freely giving away" knowledge and energy, you repeatedly call me dishonest and accuse me of thanking my teacher in an inappropriate way. If it was not clear, I was thanking people for things that were done publicly and on this forum. Yet even so, I must ask: You use terms like "should never be done" and "it should be obvious" and you insist everyone should follow you rigid rules of "same exact forum" and "align the scope of the gratitude with the scope of that which you are grateful for." I think this is good advice, but everybody has their ideas about how to properly conduct themselves. This varies from by culture, upbringing, etc. Why do you think you are the manners police? Did what I said offend you that much? Can you not realize that I had good intentions and am at worst immature for expressing myself as I did (very possible of course). All I wanted to do was make a nice, pleasant post thanking some people because I was in a grateful mood, and I got a torrent of negativity for it? Oh well, I can take it. The world is a harsh place. But it does not speak well on you behalf, even more so that you are doing it all under the name of Ancestor Lu. Since you feel so free to judge everyone else by the lordly light of your contemplation, contemplate this for a change: you are seeing this situation through you filters (reality validation framework as you would say) and are not as unquestionably right in all you say and do as you seem to think you are.

 

For the record:

 

I do not perceive Santi's talking about KAP as an advertisement. He talks about it because it is a system he practices. If someone who is a tai chi teacher posts about tai chi is it an advertisement? If they display wisdom, it speaks well on their behalf and might make you want to study with them but that does not mean they were trying to advertise.

 

You say its okay to be a businessman but then you list how many of the greatest sages of all times had "real jobs" and didn't use their spiritual knowledge for profit. This leaves your readers confused about what you really believe.

 

I called Santi Guru because he is my teacher. I don't know what you think I meant by that, but that is ALL. I'm not saying anyone else should call him that or think of him in any way that they associate with the word guru. He certainly never told me "Tyler, you must address me as guru." In fact, I can't even imagine him doing such a thing.

[Vajrasattva]

It seems to me that some people here are confused with regard to expressing gratitude, so I wanted to make this explicit.

 

If someone does something good for you in private, you thank them in private. You should never thank someone publicly for something that person did in private.

 

If someone does something good for you in public, it is appropriate but not absolutely required that you thank them in public. If you thank someone in private for something they've done publicly, that's OK.

 

In general your gratitude should be expressed within the same exact scope that the action you're thankful for was committed. So if something good was committed in one forum, you don't go to a completely different forum to thank the same person. You thank them in the same exact forum. Doing so aligns the scope of the gratitude with the scope of that which you are grateful for.

 

If you receive a secret spiritual revelation, you don't proclaim your gratitude for it on the street. You express your gratitude in secret, unless you want to remove the veil of secrecy and make what has been revealed to you public, then you can express your gratitude publicly.

 

I hope this is clear. If anyone doesn't understand why you should never thank someone publicly for something they've done in private, please ask. I hope it's obvious, but if not, I will explain it.

 

You take yourself and your rigidity WAY TO SERIOUS.

 

Peace to you and wait here it comes.................................

 

THANK YOU

 

 

I wish you a lot of Peace and Success.

 

Santiago

[goldisheavy]

Dear goldisheavy,

 

If it was not clear, I was thanking people for things that were done publicly and on this forum.

 

I think that's largely true when you were thanking people other than Vajra. For example, Ya Mu also seems to be selling something, but he posts pretty openly all kinds of engaging stuff. Agree with it or not, but he is sharing openly, in my opinion. I don't get the sense that Ya Mu is holding back on us, but then again, I've been deceived in the past, so I can be wrong about this. It's a fine line to toe. You can be selling services on one hand, and freely give away the same services on the other hand. It's not easy, but it's possible.

 

I just don't see a lot forthcoming from Vajra on this forum. Maybe he PM's a boatload of good info to all of you guys? That's fine. Then PM your thanks to him. As far as Vajra's open involvement, there's been a paucity of output there.

 

Please don't get me wrong. I don't have anything bad to say about Vajra (at least not right now or any time recently). I think he's a cool guy who is polite and friendly and I have all kinds of good things to say about him. He's mostly just being "nice". But being nice and being wise is not the same. Giving and giving freely are not the same. Business transactions and friendship are not the same.

 

Yet even so, I must ask: You use terms like "should never be done" and "it should be obvious" and you insist everyone should follow you rigid rules of "same exact forum" and "align the scope of the gratitude with the scope of that which you are grateful for."

 

I respect free will. I ask people to respect certain guidelines which I believe are reasonable. If someone believes they are not reasonable, I would like to hear arguments to the contrary. Upon receiving such good cogent arguments I will then modify my opinion. I do feel free to ask though. You don't have to do anything I ask. And I don't have to do anything you ask. However, there is a possibility that, wait for it! .... wait for it... you might WANT to do what I ask you to do? Wow??? Ever thought of that? That it might coincide with your own interest? How about it? Maybe what I am asking for is actually quite reasonable and if you give it some thought you may enjoy doing it. I don't put a proverbial gun to anyone's head. At the same time, I believe I have good reasons for what I am asking.

 

I think this is good advice,

 

Well, jee golly wiz?!!! No kidding???! That's all there is to it. Imagine this: you think so and you follow this advice, not because it is the "I" who asks, but because you find it to be reasonable. Someone else does the same. And someone else does the same, and that's all I want. I don't want to institute some groupthink in here. Not at all. If anything I like a diversity of opinions. I just make a suggestion. I invite and welcome criticism and dissent. And if anyone finds my suggestion eminently reasonable, I ask people to please follow my suggestion.

 

but everybody has their ideas about how to properly conduct themselves.

 

Let's discuss these differences then, OK? I don't think just because everyone is different everyone is entitled to be excluded from any sort of critique.

 

Why do you think you are the manners police?

 

The job of police is to enforce. If you absolutely insist on comparing me to some social role, then I am more like a priest than police. I preach the good news. I don't enforce. At least not right now and not on this forum. My job is to ask and give reasons when needed when I want something, and when people want something my job is to help them to the greatest extent possible. Enforcement is one thing I don't do. There are people who actually police this forum, and I am not one of them, so you have nothing to fear from me in terms of real hostility. I sometimes may say something you don't want to hear, but I'll never ban you from this forum because I am not a policeman.

 

Did what I said offend you that much?

 

Yes, I found it very offensive.

 

Can you not realize that I had good intentions

 

I have utmost faith in your good intentions. That's why I discuss things with you. Had I not thought you had good intentions, I wouldn't bother discussing anything. Had I thought you had ill intentions then I'd either leave, if I thought you were not causing too much damage to society and if I thought you represented a mere splinter or a deviation, or I would organize real and tangible resistance to whatever you were doing if I thought that you were part of a larger pattern and not just some oddball crazy.

 

It is because I, perhaps foolishly, believe that all or most people have good intentions that I don't jump to brute force as my first option, and not even my 5th or 10th option.

 

All I wanted to do was make a nice, pleasant post thanking some people because I was in a grateful mood

 

I understand, and such sweet intention is generally commendable. But are you familiar with the concept of flattery? Flattery can be defined simply as "excessive praise". Flattery is a poison for spiritual development. Flattery hurts the person you flatter more than yourself. It's a cruel thing to do to someone.

 

I got a torrent of negativity for it?

 

You got one post from me! I would have let the issue drop after that one post had people not decided to get deeper into it. I'm glad people want to discuss it though. Let's shine more light on it.

[Creation]

GiH,

 

It was nice to get all this out in the open.

 

"Wisdom is proved right by her actions."

 

Best of luck to you in your cultivation,

Tyler

[freeform]

Gold is heavy... it's a profound name innit... alchemical in a way.... speaks of physicality but also of the spirit...

 

You on the other hand seem to be weighed down by the heaviness of all that bling certainty you have hanging round your neck.

 

Now I know what you mean by Lordliness. It means carrying the weight of all that golden wisdom and setting us straight - clearing up our confusions on how we should thank each other (you should write a step-by-step manual)

 

In all honesty I really like some of what you write... and then I read threads like this which just make me giggle!

[Prince...]

 

I hope this is clear. If anyone doesn't understand why you should never thank someone publicly for something they've done in private, please ask. I hope it's obvious, but if not, I will explain it.

 

This is not clear to me at all. Last month, several people in my church wrote recommendation letters for me. If I am accepted to school, I plan to announce my acceptance and publicly thank everyone who "privately" wrote letters or prayed on my behalf. There are many ways to show gratitude to people.

 

Personally, I think people do not say "thank you" enough, but that's my opinion, just like you have yours, which happens to not agree with my own.

[mYTHmAKER]

I am putting my two cents in because i'm escaping from making a decision.

Anyway

IT DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION

One does what is appropriate.

 

Be spontaneous - come from your heart and no problems

 

No two situations are exactly the same.

 

 

There are no hard and fast rules in life - well maybe a few if you belong to a religion

 

Perhaps you should rest awhile in my silent forum.

I'm headed there right now.

[goldisheavy]

This is not clear to me at all. Last month, several people in my church wrote recommendation letters for me. If I am accepted to school, I plan to announce my acceptance and publicly thank everyone who "privately" wrote letters or prayed on my behalf. There are many ways to show gratitude to people.

 

Personally, I think people do not say "thank you" enough, but that's my opinion, just like you have yours, which happens to not agree with my own.

 

Ok, I was worried that not everyone understood the problem. I guess I have to explain what I think the problem is when the scope of gratitude expression exceeds the scope of that which you are grateful for.

 

The problem arises because of how we currently build reputation within conventional reality. When people are well spoken of, they rise in reputation. So if someone is praised once, then again, and then again, eventually that person gains some stature.

 

I would like this "gain" in stature to be fair, which means it needs to be reasonably transparent. So for example, if someone is thanked for vague or abstract reasons over and over there is a very real possibility that this person will gain in stature for dubious reasons because the reasons are not available for inspection. This allows people who are inappropriate for those roles to assume authoritative roles in society.

 

This problem can be alleviated by disclosing in very precise terms what it is you are thanking someone for. This is not an ideal practice, because this allows an exchange of a private benefit for a public benefit. So to use your example, when someone recommends you, that's a private benefit to you, but when you thank the recommender in public, that's a public benefit to them. Exchanging a private benefit for a public one is a kind of unfair upgrade of benefit. So for example, if I scratch someone's back, and then this person goes around saying I am a great person who will do anything to help anyone, that's inappropriate, because the aura I get from such praise is not commensurate with my action.

 

Is this clear now?

 

Further, while feeling grateful is a wonderful thing, thanking people is generally bad no matter what. Why is that? That's because when you thank someone, you are very likely inflating that person's ego whether you mean to or not (unless the person you are thanking is a saintly person who has the spiritual wisdom to disregard your thanks and ignore them). It takes a tremendous amount of work to become immune to thanks.

 

It's possible to be kind and supportive of a person, to be friendly and helpful, without ever thanking the person explicitly. I don't include simple cultural "thank you"s like what you would say to someone who holds the door for you. I find those particular kinds of thanks to be harmless.

 

If you must thank someone, doing so in private is the best option because it has the least chance to inflate the ego.

Edited March 5, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Vajrasattva]

I WANT TO PERSONALLY THANK ON TAO BUMBS ALL THE KAP FOLKS, YODA, SEAN, ALL THE TAO BUMBS IN GENERAL, ALL THE TAO BUMB HEALERS HELPING OUT IN THE HEALING CIRCLE, ALL THE TAO BUMBS THAT HAVE ALLOWED ME TO HELP THEM OUT, THE CREATOR &

 

AND MOST OF ALL :

 

 

THE TAO BUMB ELITEST SELF APPOINTED POLICE PRIEST AND AUTHORITY ON HOW TO SHOW GRATITUDE:

 

mister "GOLD IS HEAVY"

 

 

ALHUMDULILLA

 

Santiago

[goldisheavy]

Gold is heavy... it's a profound name innit... alchemical in a way.... speaks of physicality but also of the spirit...

 

The inner meaning of my name is a reminder that materiality, while shiny and seemingly valuable, is an anchor that weighs us down and limits our experiential freedom. Think of it as lovingly putting on the golden jewelry and having lots of gold coins in your pockets that you believe bring you security and good life and then being unable to move, or moving only with great struggle, sweating and straining greatly against all that weight.

 

So my name is a call to renunciation.

[Prince...]

But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.

Matthew 6:3-4

 

When a servant serves his master faithfully and the master rewards the servant greatly; the servant does not duck his head and whisper his gratitude in secret. He shouts it for the world to know.

[Vajrasattva]

Matthew 6:3-4

 

When a servant serves his master faithfully and the master rewards the servant greatly; the servant does not duck his head and whisper his gratitude in secret. He shouts it for the world to know.

 

Alhumdulilla!

[goldisheavy]

Matthew 6:3-4

 

When a servant serves his master faithfully and the master rewards the servant greatly; the servant does not duck his head and whisper his gratitude in secret. He shouts it for the world to know.

 

First of all, the Bible is not the word of God (and neither is Koran, or any other book). Secondly, Matthew 6:3-4 says absolutely NOTHING about shouting your gratitude to the world.

 

I gave you clear reasons explaining why thanking people publicly for something they've done for you privately is bad. Do not attempt to address reason with dogma. Reason shall be addressed only with reason.

[thelerner]

There are times when discussions here get mean, nasty and way too personal. When people insult and slander others and their beliefs!!!

 

And you're worried about improper thank yous!!!

 

I can't help but think that that would be low on most peoples list.

 

 

Michael

[goldisheavy]

And you're worried about improper thank yous!!!

 

Ha, you're right. I have bigger fish to fry. I wasn't planning on a big thread about it. I just wanted to make a small note, but you know how that goes sometimes.

[Vajrasattva]

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[Sloppy Zhang]

There are times when a conversation gets so long and drawn out and complicated that people who are not involved will just gloss over all of the posts anyway because all the posts are long and are talking about something way off topic that they have no idea what's going on. When that happens, chances are most people don't even notice except for the parties involved....

 

So for one of the people to go and make a whole other thread about something that happened that most people probably don't even know about will only draw MORE attention to the issue and make it worse for everyone.......

 

Which of course leaves people like me coming into a thread thinking about, you know, how to thank a friend, is it appropriate to buy a gift, should you pay money to your MA teacher or meditation guru, all kinds of things... only to realize it's this whole complicated issue that I tried to stay out of in the first place because it was too complicated and personal in the thread it originated in...... yeah.

[Smile]

Thank you for your thank you.

Also thank you for this thread.

[Mal]

"what to do and what not to do when thanking someone"

 

Do anything that comes from the heart.

 

So thank you for causing me to ponder this.

[Seth Ananda]

Woof Woof!!

[三江源]

.

Edited April 9, 2015 by 三江源

[goldisheavy]

goldisheavy tells us :

 

should

 

&

 

proper

okaaay. let's get some skirts to cover up those piano legs NOW.

 

Bullshit. I was not dogmatic. I gave what I believe were very good reasons, well explained. I didn't just say "you should do this" and leave it at that. That would be dogmatic had I said it like that. I've also invited criticisms, but instead of criticisms I got responses ranging from dogma to ridicule.

 

Not a single person who disagreed with me has demonstrated an ability to think in this thread.

[三江源]

.

Edited April 9, 2015 by 三江源

[freeform]

credibility

 

s

 

h

 

o

 

t

 

to pieces.