The danger of radical Islam

[thelerner]

You know what I see, Gold had his feeling hurt in an earlier discussion w/ Santiago, knowing Santi is Muslim, the next day he creates a new post 25% of Muslims are bad. He leads off with incendiary information guaranteed to inflame debate, saying Muslims kill there children in the first or second sentence.

 

The subject is worth debating, but Gold uses it childishly and vindictively. If he doesn't see that then he lacks self awareness of his motivations. He lectures pompously and makes broad generalizations, which I find don't hold water.

 

I find him to be a troll (internet variety)

 

 

Michael

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited August 26, 2009 by mjjbecker

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited August 26, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Vajrasattva]

You know what I see, Gold had his feeling hurt in an earlier discussion w/ Santiago, knowing Santi is Muslim, the next day he creates a new post 25% of Muslims are bad. He leads off with incendiary information guaranteed to inflame debate, saying Muslims kill there children in the first or second sentence.

 

The subject is worth debating, but Gold uses it childishly and vindictively. If he doesn't see that then he lacks self awareness of his motivations. He lectures pompously and makes broad generalizations, which I find don't hold water.

 

I find him to be a troll (internet variety)

Michael

 

 

Santiago =

 

a want to be Sufi ( I think its almost unreachable state of being true Sufi but i strive for it) Muslim, Taoist, Buddhist, Bon po Yogi, Shaman, yet i am really zero : )

 

Michael you are a good man.

 

Gold has a chip over his shoulder for reasons I stated before.

 

He just feels he has been "Burned" and some how he associates that with me.

 

That is fine : )

 

Santi

 

I don't think GIH has given any examples of whom he has studied under and what he has learned from them-other than he has read a few books.

 

He also misses the point. It is not simply the method being dangerous, but the 'issues' that the student needs to work through. When the energy moves, old issues-physical, emotional-arise. For some people they are not major, so its no big deal. For others, it can be a huge issue.

 

So, the reality is that it IS a 'problem with the student', in that the students problems come from within.

 

The way he rails on about how things should be free, it looks like either:

 

A. He hasn't the means to seek out a teacher, and so is pissed that what he wants is not handed to him on a silver platter.

 

B. He's been conned by one of the shysters and so is bearing a grudge.

 

C. A combination of the above.

 

As for safer, effective practises, I read the Spring Forest level 1-3 manuals over Christmas. Good stuff indeed. It is however interesting to note that Chunyi Lin states he holds information back and that his teachers told him to do so also. There are reasons for limiting dissemination, even if those throwing tantrums at the unfairness of it all cannot comprehend this.

 

Best,

 

Mike

 

 

Correct cause see HOMIE is HEAVY has issues with $$$$ , does not see the Value of PAYING for something in some form or another & issues with truly surrendering and emptying his cup cause after all we EXIST cause of GIH. : ).

 

Meanwhile Homie is Heavy still is dependant on this life on BREATH, FOOD, SLEEP, SHITTING & PISSING and is still incapable of really creating anything or helping anyone truly "BECOME".

 

Only God/Tao/Allah etc can do this.

 

By the way GIH even GOD has a price.

 

The price is FULL SURRENDER OF SELF & EGO and duality & Concept.

 

What you have left is what GOD/TAO/CREATOR wills.

 

You can READ MANY BOOKS YES IT HELPS BUT it will NEVER compare to being in the same room with the people who "HAVE IT".

 

Mike you are a good man : )

Peace

 

Santiago

Edited March 14, 2009 by Vajrasattva

[Pietro]

"Apepch7",

 

(I wish you were signing with your real name -unless you are a borg and Apepch7 is your real name -, it would make it easier for me to address you.

 

Thanks for your message. Yes, I do agree we are in a mess, and I do agree that Islam is in a particular moment of its development. If I suggested that the slow of islamic culture helped the popularity of the philosopher, believe me, it was beyond my words. The two things are obviously correlated, and the sources who seem to study those problems seem to agree that he caused it. Although I do have some problems in thinking a single person being that powerful. But then again, we do have other cases in history of single human being who changed a whole culture with their writings.

 

I find it interetsing that people compare Islam to Communism. I don't find it that way at all, but then again, my internal idea of communism has nothing to do with RUssia, or Marx, and a lot with growing up in Italy in the 70's and 80's where the cool people, the intellectual, the smart ones where all left and communists. I wish we avoided making comparisons with concepts that are interpreted in a such a diverse way, depending on one's culture... especially in such an international and worldwide club like TB. I am saying this not just to you, but also to whoelse brought up communism.

 

 

I understand from what you say that you think that there is something specific and threatening about Islam, over and above the kind of threat held by any orthodoxy - but maybe I am misreading you.

hmm, not sure. I think the real threat comes from what the majority of Muslim do believe (regarding Apostasy & Sharia) in an historical context of population explosion, so that is the orthodoxy. Additional threats? Not sure, none worth mentioning.

 

 

Some people argue that it ended because the only "discoveries" that were made then were those stolen from the countries they conquered. Remember, the golden age of Islam was when the Caliphs had an expanding empire. Once they were slowed down....well, they slowed down.

 

Not an endorsement of the theory necessarily, it is just worth mentioning. Rome also grew technologically while it expanded, then when Christianity took over it crumbled.

 

Hmm, so why would the stars have arabic names? Who discovers/invents something decided its name. They might have taken astronomy from somwhere else, but surely it was their scientists that used it to discover so many stars.

 

But it might be true that the expansion was somewhoe fueled by continuous expansions. Like many American things/trends in the second half of last century are not american at all, but just became popular in the US.

 

The question what makes a culture stop blooming is a really interesting one. I think I shall look into it, but I expect a 5 year quest . The philosopher before was just one of the possible causes. You suggest a slowing down of the military expansion. I am curious about other possible causes. I am interetsed because we are living in such a period right now. What happened to Alexandria? To ROme? To Greece?

 

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

(thinking time)

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[goldisheavy]

Can you give some examples?

 

Sure. For example the practice of self-knowledge.

 

Or the practice of mindfulness in daily life.

 

Or the practice of vipassana meditation (what some people call "bare attention").

 

Or the contemplation of infinite possibilities.

 

Or the contemplation of the three properties of God and their implications: omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence. If you realize the full implications of those 3, you are enlightened.

 

There are so many approaches that are high order and powerful at the same time. "High order" means you don't dabble in micro-managing too much, but dwell in the overall wisdom, the grand vision, the total meaning, the ultimate.

 

 

He just feels he has been "Burned" and some how he associates that with me.

 

That's not how I feel at all. But thanks for telling me how I feel. I am thinking of outsourcing my own responsibility for feeling my feelings to you. I'll pay you $$$ so you can feel my feelings for me.

 

Correct cause see HOMIE is HEAVY has issues with $$$$ , does not see the Value of PAYING for something in some form or another

 

Nonsense. I've done nothing but say good things about fair business and businessmen. Can you quote something of mine where I deprecate businessmen or deprecate charging $$$ for fair value? Let's have it.

 

& issues with truly surrendering and emptying his cup

 

If only you knew what you were talking about...

Edited March 14, 2009 by goldisheavy

[33865_1494798762]

Please watch this documentary film made by a real moderate Muslim who wants to stop the threat of radical Islam:

 

http://blip.tv/file/1382254

 

Wake up and open your eyes.

 

No matter what idea, most believers are by fare the dullest and laziest as they ever come.

In fact, the biggest supporter of an idea comes from its opposition, its enemy. They are the true worshipper of an idea, the most fanatic followers, it is, to say at least, not the privilege of the so called Orthodoxed.

 

The so called Orthodoxed, thouse are the obsessed suckers for wrongs and wrong doings. Correcting others if not them self, but often being in fact the biggest users of objects, supposedly tabooed and denied, like: moral debraved, lying, stealing, porn, meat, sugar, cursing, discrimination, women, abuse, war, hate, bla, bla, etc.

 

To really believe something and to act upon that believe is to enforce that idea and object of believe. To fight an idea you will have to believe in it, and with great strength and determination. So, out of ignorance we become what we fight. Mind is a house of tricks

 

The thing is - Ego can not exist with out conflict and fear. So instead of peace, it seeks a good long fight.

There are no terrorist out there, it is all in the concept of ego - ego is the only terrorist. It is only maintained by its opposition, that is to believe in something "out there" detached from it self.

 

Peace is peace, it can not be disturbed, that is its nature. So peace is not an object of want, it can not be lost or achieved because the act of wanting peace is the act of destroying peace. We misinterpreted peace and thought of it as an idea and not a living fact.

 

So it is with "truth".

It can never be thought about. It can never be talked about, fought over or defended, nor even followed by anything else but peace. Truth takes care of it self, that is it nature, that is why peace followes it and peacefull life prospere from truth.

Ego is the terrorist. And terrorists fight other terrorists. They create ther terrible world, which means more terror and wars, because this is there nature.

 

Religions and political parties, are the faces of that terrible war.

And it is as a culture, the means of a perfection in order to maintain it self and live on.

From generation to generation a particular perfection is nurtured by ego slaves, to be keept a live. The ego slaves believe they too will die the second the perfected idea goes (and they are so right! So, they keep there own slavery alive, maintain there wars of destruction and terror.

All in the name of some perfected idea of entity.

 

"The perfection" will vanish from the face of earth anyway, and so will the ego slaves, in fact they are all ready dead - living deads. This is the world war, not against earth but against the intire mankind.

Edited March 14, 2009 by Guest

[Aetherous]

Sure. For example the practice of self-knowledge.

 

Or the practice of mindfulness in daily life.

 

Or the practice of vipassana meditation (what some people call "bare attention").

 

Or the contemplation of infinite possibilities.

 

Or the contemplation of the three properties of God and their implications: omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence. If you realize the full implications of those 3, you are enlightened.

 

There are so many approaches that are high order and powerful at the same time. "High order" means you don't dabble in micro-managing too much, but dwell in the overall wisdom, the grand vision, the total meaning, the ultimate.

 

Cool, actually I agree with you. Some of those are safer methods.

[33865_1494798762]

Edited March 14, 2009 by Guest

[Apech]

"Apepch7",

 

(I wish you were signing with your real name -unless you are a borg and Apepch7 is your real name -, it would make it easier for me to address you.

 

Thanks for your message. Yes, I do agree we are in a mess, and I do agree that Islam is in a particular moment of its development. If I suggested that the slow of islamic culture helped the popularity of the philosopher, believe me, it was beyond my words. The two things are obviously correlated, and the sources who seem to study those problems seem to agree that he caused it. Although I do have some problems in thinking a single person being that powerful. But then again, we do have other cases in history of single human being who changed a whole culture with their writings.

 

I find it interetsing that people compare Islam to Communism. I don't find it that way at all, but then again, my internal idea of communism has nothing to do with RUssia, or Marx, and a lot with growing up in Italy in the 70's and 80's where the cool people, the intellectual, the smart ones where all left and communists. I wish we avoided making comparisons with concepts that are interpreted in a such a diverse way, depending on one's culture... especially in such an international and worldwide club like TB. I am saying this not just to you, but also to whoelse brought up communism.

 

 

 

Pietro,

 

My name is John but I am a borg (ha ha).

 

I was teaching English this morning and I realised that I had an Iranian, an Iraqi, a Khurdish woman, someone from Eritrea and several others - nearly the whole of the axis of evil!!! They are so nice and well meaning that it is very hard for me to get any of the Muslim threat stuff. OK I disagree with a lot of their culture but it is not our role to lecture or disapprove. I think societies need to develop in their own ways. You can't go around the world imposing democracy for instance it has to grow from within.

 

There is a theory about philosophy (possibly Marxist) which says that society throw up the philosophy that reflects it. So if there is a strong hierarchy in society then the philosophy is hierarchical and so on. So I would suggest that the stage at which Islamic thinking became in turned and conservative was when somehow the society had developed in this way. Whether this is to do with expansion as such I am not sure.

 

 

The comparison with communism is not to say that Islam is in any way like communism in its approach or thinking, but just that Islam has replaced communism as the shiboleth of the West, the scary 'other' which threatens all that we stand for. This is the way that governments work. They control peoples minds by manipulating images of nasty foreigners - just as the Nazis did with the Jews and the idea of an international Jewish conspiracy and so on. That's not to say that there is no real threat from Al Quieda or whatever - but the way in which these organisations come into being and are allowed to flourish is significant.

 

I agree that many communists are charming bespectacled intellectuals who want to change the world for the better. But I think if you had said that in the USA 1950 - 1990 you would have got shouted at in no uncertain terms. I assure you there are many Muslims who are equally charming.

 

Sharia law seems to evoke some dismay in the West because of the 'barbaric' punishments - such as public flogging and the cutting off of hands. We just don't do that sort of thing - so we don't want them to either. But its not really that long ago that we did. And what were the most barbaric events of the 20 century? WW1 and WW2 presumably. We killed millions feuding over who ruled Europe - or in the case of the Japanese the Pacific basin. You just have to look at how the Japanese were portrayed after the war - as kind of alien crazy people capable of barbaric acts in concentration camps and so on. Now, on the other hand, they are colourful, funny, slightly eccentric but admirable people with their own special aesthetic.

Edited March 14, 2009 by apepch7

[NeutralWire]

I was teaching English this morning and I realised that I had an Iranian, an Iraqi, a Khurdish woman, someone from Eritrea and several others - nearly the whole of the axis of evil!!!

 

Love this

[forestofsouls]

The problem is always out there, in the world, never in here. I don't change myself, the finely crafted ego with well-balanced opinions and filters. No, it is the universe that needs to change to suit me.

 

Right. Exactly the reason people will live their lives as dogs rather than as true men and women. You never look to see the chains around your own neck, it's always the other person. All present company excluded, of course.

[NeutralWire]

Pietro --

 

The question what makes a culture stop blooming is a really interesting one. I think I shall look into it, but I expect a 5 year quest

 

If you wanted places to start try John Michael Greer's brilliant analysis on www.thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com, plus his two fave historians of cultural anatomy, Arnold Toynbee and Oswald Spengler.

 

Plenty of books about collapse out there right now of course, but you can trust these three. NW

[seadog]

Well I don't know if Islam is dangerous or not,but I do know that the world would be a better place if our banking system was run on the Isamic model as opposed to the capitalistic model.

At this point in time I think we all understand why Jesus got rough with the money changers.

[Vajrasattva]

Well I don't know if Islam is dangerous or not,but I do know that the world would be a better place if our banking system was run on the Isamic model as opposed to the capitalistic model.

At this point in time I think we all understand why Jesus got rough with the money changers.

 

 

This is with out a doubt.

[33865_1494798762]

Well I don't know if Islam is dangerous or not,but I do know that the world would be a better place if our banking system was run on the Isamic model as opposed to the capitalistic model.

At this point in time I think we all understand why Jesus got rough with the money changers.

 

LOL, yes. Capitalism means that sociaty left the running of banks to bankrubbers.

 

However, a religion can not be dangerous but the expectation of it certainly can. That goes for any idea, religious, political, social, security, values, finances, etc. But they are idears, they are nothing but a symbol.

If someone find that a symbol is dangerous, the danger they find is only applied by them self.

Edited March 15, 2009 by Guest

[Sunya]

Santiago =

 

a want to be Sufi ( I think its almost unreachable state of being true Sufi but i strive for it) Muslim, Taoist, Buddhist, Bon po Yogi, Shaman, yet i am really zero : )

 

 

 

i think its a bit impossible to be a Muslim and a Buddhist at the same time. not that I want to get into a pissing contest between which religion is better, but the two are diametrically opposed to each other.

[The Genuine Article]

Edited March 15, 2009 by The Genuine Article

[Vajrasattva]

i think its a bit impossible to be a Muslim and a Buddhist at the same time. not that I want to get into a pissing contest between which religion is better, but the two are diametrically opposed to each other.

 

 

How so?

 

Buddhism can be summed up in

 

 

a NAme of ALLAH.

 

http://www.sufism.org/society/asma/

 

 

Ar-Rahman

Edited March 15, 2009 by Vajrasattva

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I have to add that I thought that was the case years ago also.

But then I met a powerful Sufi practitioner a few years ago, and I have to agree he spirituality and the talismans he made were very powerful.

Though I dont hold a lot of beliefs others do, I still believe everyone should have the right to believe what they do. I believe that spiritual truth rather than dogma to be paramount in my life.

Edited March 16, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[goldisheavy]

I still believe everyone should have the right to believe what they do.

 

So do I.

 

Here's how the Islamic world views this:

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...ticle743382.ece

[TheWhiteRabbit]

So do I.

 

Here's how the Islamic world views this:

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...ticle743382.ece

 

I feel sorry for you my friend. You truely let everything bother you.

[goldisheavy]

I feel sorry for you my friend. You truely let everything bother you.

 

Everything??? I don't think so. Have you even looked at the article? It's not one-sided or anything.

[Dainin]

i think its a bit impossible to be a Muslim and a Buddhist at the same time. not that I want to get into a pissing contest between which religion is better, but the two are diametrically opposed to each other.

 

 

You might want to look into Lex Hixon and Samuel L. Lewis (aka Sufi Sam), each of them integrated both viewpoints in their lives.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I never feel the need to express any of Jesus teachings, though there is great wisdom in some of them.

 

The reason why you cannot group "all of islam" together as wrong is the same as why the Ninevites in the Book of Jonah were not destroyed. Such wanton destruction just because someone is wrong is silly. A religion should not be destroyed because a few renegade lunatics.

 

In fact Reference is made in the Gospels regarding "the sign of jonah". Jonah waited for the destruction of Ninevah, and experienced a bottle gourd plant grow and die that shaded him momentarily.

 

A good lesson in compassion. Makes us who feel obliged walk a fine line.