Strengths and Weaknesses

[Mo Tzu]

The two Teachers that inspire me are Dr Stephen T. Chang and Mantak Chia. What are peoples thoughts on their experience with one or both? (from a long distance i.e. book and/or in close distance i.e. workshop).

[Long Yun]

The two Teachers that inspire me are Dr Stephen T. Chang and Mantak Chia. What are peoples thoughts on their experience with one or both? (from a long distance i.e. book and/or in close distance i.e. workshop).

I don't have any personal experience with either, so keep that in mind when considering my input. But I've heard that Mantak Chia and some of his practices are actually dangerous. This is supposedly because he never learned any of the practices he teaches. He did his own research and came up with practices that he thinks fit. That's just what I've heard though.

[Mo Tzu]

Are there any other thoughts on this subect about peoples experiences with either of these teachers? I have read most of Dr Stephen T. Changs books and find them all very inspiring.

[Mo Tzu]

Does anyone else have a teacher ( of Taoism) they would like to mention and why they like them as their teacher and maybe a link for a website (if they have one (them or the teacher)? May we all create together a forevever expanding Universe and collective thought.

[rain]

Edited March 11, 2009 by rain

[Mo Tzu]

Many Moons ago I was living in Guatemala suurrouned (it seemed ) by old Sanyassins. The type that had done India eons ago and was with Osho while staying at the Ashram. I hab been inspired to read some of his books (as they also seemed to be everywhere) and rather liked what I read. Straight forward & to the point. I had also heard stories of the 50 Rolls Royces he had etc. every time his name came into debate. We were at this paticular time having a house built for us above the treetops overlooking a volcanic lake by a Sanyassin who we had befriended. This was a present (from him) so we could have our 1st child in the middle of nowhere. One day I approached the subject of the Rolls Royces and asked his opinion. He said "Osho always said that if people can't see past the Rolls Royces then they have a long way to go before we can start talking".

 

 

www.osho.com (go to ZEN TAROT and take a card, any card but don't show me).

Edited March 11, 2009 by Mo Tzu

[Guest sykkelpump]

I THINK THEY ARE BOTH WASTE OF TIME AND SOME OF THE EXERSICES ARE MAKING EXISTING BLOCKS BIGGER.

i HONESTLY BELIVE MEDITATION IS THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIVE GREAT SPIRITUAL RESULTS

[Mo Tzu]

Without going outside his door, one understands (all that takes

place) under the sky; without looking out from his window, one sees

the Tao of Heaven. The farther that one goes out (from himself), the

less he knows.

 

Does that mean we are all our own teachers but we use the teachers until that point is fully realized?

[dragonfire]

Without going outside his door, one understands (all that takes

place) under the sky; without looking out from his window, one sees

the Tao of Heaven. The farther that one goes out (from himself), the

less he knows.

 

Does that mean we are all our own teachers but we use the teachers until that point is fully realized?

 

I have found their teachings good, but question some of their techniques. They are not

accurate on my accounts and can be dangerous.

[rain]

Many Moons ago I was living in Guatemala suurrouned (it seemed ) by old Sanyassins. The type that had done India eons ago and was with Osho while staying at the Ashram. I hab been inspired to read some of his books (as they also seemed to be everywhere) and rather liked what I read. Straight forward & to the point. I had also heard stories of the 50 Rolls Royces he had etc. every time his name came into debate. We were at this paticular time having a house built for us above the treetops overlooking a volcanic lake by a Sanyassin who we had befriended. This was a present (from him) so we could have our 1st child in the middle of nowhere. One day I approached the subject of the Rolls Royces and asked his opinion. He said "Osho always said that if people can't see past the Rolls Royces then they have a long way to go before we can start talking".

www.osho.com (go to ZEN TAROT and take a card, any card but don't show me).

 

yeah I have a sanyassin friend who told me how he loved to point out that the cars were all identical..

[hagar]

Does anyone else have a teacher ( of Taoism) they would like to mention and why they like them as their teacher and maybe a link for a website (if they have one (them or the teacher)? May we all create together a forevever expanding Universe and collective thought.

 

These days; Yoda

 

h

[markern]

Mantak chia is a nice person as far as I can judge from taking the general basic retreat. However, as a teacher and writer of books about cultivation I think he is very sloppy. Dangerously so. I also find a lot of his books to be without any intelectual depth and displaying a very superficial knowledge of other traditions. When he writes about how stilness meditation just calms the mind and does not create any new energy and actualy depletes your life force in the wisdom chi kung that is just plain idiocy. When he writes about chanting in the same book he also0 clearly does not understand what he is talking about. There are also several dangers within his system particulary with iron shirt and sexual practices. Michael Winn has corrected a lot of Mantaks mistakes and teaches it a lot better in my opinion. Other mistakes in the system can be corrected by following advice from the collected wisdom on teh taobums especially trunks site. A huge, huge mistake in teh system is the lack of some sort of regular emptiness meditation. Both to digest all the yang practices wich are about 95% of the system, but also to build the consentration and relaxation and basic harmony to be able to do and handle tha more advanced practices well. I know of a couple of people with many years of background in Vipassana and they surf through mantaks system in no time with little or no problems. There is also no emphasis on psychology and personal development wich is a huge mistake. Although practices such as healing sounds, inner smile and fusion 1-3 are great for psychological development and harmony you need som actual intelectual psychological development. Mantak has also made al the practices into technical enginering and micromangment of chi. However others like andy fretwell teach fusion in a different and more living way.

[doc benway]

yeah I have a sanyassin friend who told me how he loved to point out that the cars were all identical..

I've had no experience with Chia or Chang but I love Osho's commentaries on Zhuangzi, no matter how many Rolls Royces and Rolexes he had.

[thelerner]

A took a beginners class w/ Chia a long time ago. The younger me found him a good teacher, informed, interesting techniques, enthusiastic. I bought one of his books.

 

The problem I have w/ him and his books are they're too much and too impersonal. Thats not neccessarily his fault. He's damned by his own success. By choosing to reach 10,000's instead of few dozen he's changed the learning equation. Real thorough learning is done w/ a teacher who knows you and corrects you. They see where you're at and pace you accordingly. Still, there are those who have dedicated themselves to his techniques and have reaped huge benefits Xenolith and Little1 come to mind. Again, lack of live feedback will inevitable create unintended casualties who would have been protected by a real long term classes.

 

I see Chia as worthy pioneer in bringing Taoist energy practices to the west. Love him or hate him, he was doing the seminars and writing the books when few knew Americans knew these practices existed. His original students have innovated and effected the whole spiritual movement (for good and worse ).

 

 

Michael

[Trunk]

.. Mantak Chia. What are peoples thoughts on their experience with one or both?

Reference the thread entitled John Chang video (link) and read the posts by Sean Denty (former HT instructor).

[atena]

(edit: is it possible to delete one's posts?)

Edited March 13, 2009 by atena

[Mo Tzu]

So what is it that makes the difference with "good" or "bad" teaching? Why is it are we so strung up on whether a teacher is beyond 99.9% perfect and correct to the so called ancient knowledge? Is it not possible to decipher for ourselves and if we like it stick around and learn some more and if we don't ( or we've consumed as much as we feel possible) move on without slagging anyone off on the way. Personaly I like Dr Stephen Chang's words but that does not make everyone else crap at what they do, or does it?

 

All in the world know the beauty of the beautiful, and in doing

this they have (the idea of) what ugliness is; they all know the skill

of the skilful, and in doing this they have (the idea of) what the

want of skill is.

 

So it is that existence and non-existence give birth the one to

(the idea of) the other; that difficulty and ease produce the one (the

idea of) the other; that length and shortness fashion out the one the

figure of the other; that (the ideas of) height and lowness arise from

the contrast of the one with the other; that the musical notes and

tones become harmonious through the relation of one with another; and

that being before and behind give the idea of one following another.

 

Therefore the sage manages affairs without doing anything, and

conveys his instructions without the use of speech.