ghosts

[Mak_Tin_Si]

So put it simple in words, to your point of view, ghosts are dead people right? Like you die now and you turn to ghsot, is that your view on it?

 

Have you ever saw any "shadows" or "foggy shapes" that floats or stay around the house before? (50% transparent or something close)

 

Yes we do sleep, but we sleep very very little because the FAAT in us allow us to sleep less than normal people. We wake up very early to train too.

 

Mak Tin Si

[rex]

Where is the being?

I went to the zoo yesterday and saw loads of different sorts of beings - and that's not including the ones from the unseen classes.

[NeutralWire]

In my opinion there are many, many beings that could be called 'ghosts'.

 

In the west the term tends to be used for an etheric shell of a dead human being.

 

However I've noticed that in China they like to use the word 'ghost' where we would use the word 'spirit'.

 

If we are really talking about spirits, this is a much much bigger subject. There are huge numbers of types of being that you could consider a 'spirit' -- a small incomplete list off the top of my head:

 

1. An extruded astral body of a living human being (happens all the time unconsciously)

 

2. A being on the etheric level right above ours living its normal life (fairy/elf/tengu)

 

3. The intelligence of a plant, tree, mountain, building, nation...

 

4. The created thought form of a magician (or very emotional human being)

 

5. The created living spirit in a piece of living statuary (as described in a recent article by me: http://www.thetaobums.com/Bardon-style-Mag...eece-t9117.html )

 

6. Any of many forms of astral wildlife not covered by the above.

 

7. The beings of the elements.

 

8. The daimons.

 

9. Not to mention, if you are a Native American, a god.

 

NW

[Gerard]

What do you think "ghosts" is? let's share some point of view.

 

Mak Tin Si

 

Beings that are reborn in the hungry ghost realm due to their feeding habits in their corresponding realms (emotional energy). They will evolve according to their karma.

[宁]

what's a ghost? it's a crazy guy haunting the TTB his name starts with M...

[三江源]

mmm.

 

I think a ghost is the visual manifestation of the emotional attachment of some of the body spirits of a person who is dead. If those spirits dont disperse.

 

I saw my dead grandmother. I was 14, and was up alone in bed, knitting some clothes for a baby due to be born in the family. My grandmother appeared and inspected and praised my knitting and then moved to the window and opened the curtain and looked out, and told me not to stay up too late, and said goodnight.

 

Somehow or other it all seemed utterly normal, and I forgot to tell my mother. I told her many years later, and she said I was always my grandmothers favourite, and she always looked out of the window that way, it was a habit of hers.

 

~As an adult I felt my dead grandfather communicating with me. But I never saw him.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Nope, in Chinese, the word "ghost" do not mean spirit only. That is a wrong interpretation because you looked at the superstitious group. At least taoism do not define ghost that shallow.

 

So to you guys, what is the difference between ghost and spirit then?

[Apech]

Where is the being?

 

 

The being (or beings) is/are the energy.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

By saying all beings are energy is too broad. That doesn't really explain what "ghosts" are though.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I not really raining on anyones parade with this, as my first master once explained when he covered the procedure for making a gooman tong... I hope no one gets offended... I little piece of the older culture:

 

A ghost or gui is formed generally by a traumatic event. The hun and the po fuse to create the gooman tong.

Since when the fetus is still in the womb the spirit which is to incarnate usually leaves and comes back to the fetus body. These properties make the best ghost suited to the purposes of defense and wealth, due to the ability of the spirit to roam, and the fusion of the three etheral and the baser po...

 

Now it is no secret that the three etheral spirits exist at each of the dantiens, and the baser po... (I omit these locations)

 

On a different note, hun are different and lighter, and it is said that when one passes and has been righteous the original spirit or golden pearl unites with the three etheral spirits and is free to roam about until it generally has forgotten the lesson of individuality learned on the physical plane....

 

hun and po are developed through prayer, the po having more ties to the five elements and the physical plane, and other spirits...

 

Now my views:

There are other types of spirits too,

Angels (daoist equivalent is celestial soldiers)

Gnomes they build the plants and like to play. They usually come with plants.. Once I tried to grow a rare plant from seed.. They were like.. what is it? Can we grow it? We grew it!

 

Other hypothesis for these is perhaps there may be energies of the environment interacting with unconscious issues, which is very promising.

 

However most spirits and entities require permission before entering peoples homes and environments and such. This is why ghost attacks, and most attacks do not work well against someone experienced...

 

Then there are the firecrows, and many other spirits:

 

But I like NeutralWire's list which is very comprehensive. Just about everything falls into either of the categories.

 

If you subscribe to more complex schemes, the 10 gods, all branches and stems in bazi hae their own power and can have hidden jia in the old methods.

 

However you can also sense what type of spirits in the vicinity when you feel one by becoming aware of how you feel.

Edited March 9, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Hun(s) and Po(s) are developed ??

 

Aren't you born with 3 hun and 7 po already?... not making much sense here with your half-bucket water knowledge guy..

[Ya Mu]

Mak Tin Si,

 

Instead of playing with everyone so that you can correct them why don't you just go ahead and explain your knowledge of ghosts? You could just go ahead and answer the questions you have raised.

[NeutralWire]

http://www.thetaobums.com/Insult-policy-reminder-t4237.html

[Ya Mu]

http://www.thetaobums.com/Insult-policy-reminder-t4237.html

 

Is this directed at me? I intend no insult, just happen to know he has extensive training in dealing with ghosts and think it would be good for him to go ahead and explain it.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

I am not "playing" with you guys here. I am just raising a "discussion". If you want to learn my stuff, you can always go PM me or go to my daoismworld.com forum to look at them, right? How come now I am raising a "discussion" and you do not like it that way.....????

[Ya Mu]

How come now I am raising a "discussion" and you do not like it that way.....????

 

Didn't say I didn't like it. But I did say you can answer these questions and I for one would like to see your answers. I know you have had extensive training in dealing with ghosts.

[thelerner]

In my opinion there are many, many beings that could be called 'ghosts'.

 

In the west the term tends to be used for an etheric shell of a dead human being.

 

However I've noticed that in China they like to use the word 'ghost' where we would use the word 'spirit'.

 

If we are really talking about spirits, this is a much much bigger subject. There are huge numbers of types of being that you could consider a 'spirit' -- a small incomplete list off the top of my head:

 

1. An extruded astral body of a living human being (happens all the time unconsciously)

 

2. A being on the etheric level right above ours living its normal life (fairy/elf/tengu)

 

3. The intelligence of a plant, tree, mountain, building, nation...

 

4. The created thought form of a magician (or very emotional human being)

 

5. The created living spirit in a piece of living statuary (as described in a recent article by me: http://www.thetaobums.com/Bardon-style-Mag...eece-t9117.html )

 

6. Any of many forms of astral wildlife not covered by the above.

 

7. The beings of the elements.

 

8. The daimons.

 

9. Not to mention, if you are a Native American, a god.

 

This is closer to what I conceive as a spirit world going around us. Again not seeing it, not noticing any effect it has on my life it's not in 'my world'. Not yet.

 

I'd prefer whatever method I use to see this part of reality be experiential based, not told in legends, stories or any book form; because I don't want that prism. I don't want to feel an elephants butt and say an elephant is a lot like a fart . If its my Karma to see into that world I want it done w/out dark glasses.

 

 

 

Michael

[thelerner]

Speaking of ghosts, I posted a ghost story called Spirit Running in my personal discussion section, the Misc. Stories one. Blood, spirits, revenge, parents..its got it all

 

Michael

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Hun(s) and Po(s) are developed ??

 

Aren't you born with 3 hun and 7 po already?... not making much sense here with your half-bucket water knowledge guy..

Thats correct. We have them already.

yes other schools DO teach different methods, just as training opens your awarness to existing energies.

The school of Medical ChiKung in Beijing teaches this method, as there are methods.

 

A side door technique used to sense spirits and ghost is the eight direction perception meditaion, or something similar where you use your periphrial energies to sense spirits. After that, there are different ways of sensing or feeling what kind they are based upon the feelings but that is the most basic.

 

Just because you are not completely knowledgable about the subject doesnt mean you can be 'hating'...

In fact if your heart is in it, enlighten us.

 

This is closer to what I conceive as a spirit world going around us. Again not seeing it, not noticing any effect it has on my life it's not in 'my world'. Not yet.

 

I'd prefer whatever method I use to see this part of reality be experiential based, not told in legends, stories or any book form; because I don't want that prism. I don't want to feel an elephants butt and say an elephant is a lot like a fart . If its my Karma to see into that world I want it done w/out dark glasses.

 

That cool learner, hmmm... all i can say is if you are not used to it. Dont believe in it, then are exposed to it it can be a shock...(as was my case) Especially when you hear a gooman tong bang on walls. Creepy initially, then when you realize they have rules that they follow too, just like we have in the physical world... its cool.

Edited March 9, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Lets say you are now open to a chance to learn this "Yin-Eye" in Taoism, which will open up your 3rd eye with the Yin-path, you can only see yin stuff, so you can see ghosts, and your ancestors suffer in hell and also see things happening in hell, will you take the chance to open it? (it's free and it's like you can click a button and get it online, easy easy)

[thelerner]

Lets say you are now open to a chance to learn this "Yin-Eye" in Taoism, which will open up your 3rd eye with the Yin-path, you can only see yin stuff, so you can see ghosts, and your ancestors suffer in hell and also see things happening in hell, will you take the chance to open it? (it's free and it's like you can click a button and get it online, easy easy)

 

Yeah, I would, but I'd want to get in some heavy duty purifying first mind and body. When I mentioned kicking the devil in the balls earlier I was being humorously flippant. I don't think seeing ghosts would bother me. There are aspects of the spirit world I'd like to explore. Hell is a different story.

 

I realize if you're going to to look into hell you'd better have a mountain load of equanimity. The hell man creates is pretty disconcerting, to begin to comprehend it, is to bathe in its madness. Worse you see reflections of yourself in the pool.

 

Short answer; if I could peep down the rabbit hole now, I would. To stare at the bottom I'd need some serious time to prepare myself. So how does one begin?

 

Would you be able to teach one such as I? One who wants the method and not the mythology? If you see ancestors in hell, I understand, but I'd rather go in as a blank slate, without expectations. If I might see shocking things I'd need to be prepared with a balance of compassion and capacity to let my mind flow without clinging. In kabalistic terms to see any insult or flattery in the same dull light. I wouldn't want the experience to be tainted and colored by your dogma. I suspect ones mindset and filters greatly effect what one sees. If your view is universal I'll discover it myself.

 

Yours

 

 

Michael

[Mak_Tin_Si]

to the reply above,

 

did you think about this theory : "no you want to swim in a pool of "poo poo". You told me if you want to get dirty, you wuold like to be VERY CLEAN first before doing it..."

 

do you know that you are going to swim in this pool of "poo poo" at the end and get dirty anyway no matter how clean you are now?

[Mak_Tin_Si]

We do have 3 hun and 7 po when we are born. Do you ever think that what happens to them when we die? maybe you will then be enlgihtened abit more.

 

Ghost in taoism means ANY hidden negatives energy or mesasge.

 

One can have a ghost mind - meaning a mind that think about a lot of evil stuff at the back without people knowing about it.

 

One can have a ghost eye - meaning you look at evil things when people do not see you do it.

 

etc,..

[thelerner]

I don't want to swim in a pool of shit. If a major part of your yin eye is visions of hell and suffering it may not be for me. I understand the universe tends to balance things out, where there is great good, evil may exist as counterpoint. Therein lies my thoughts on purification to attain better balance within, not to cling to old notions.

 

I can't help but think cultural conditioning plays a role in what you see. Not that its made up or imaginary, but that the world is big, multi-dimensional and filled with many things. A tour guide who takes you to hell and play in dirty pools is not what I'm looking for. Ultimately I want to learn it all, but in the beginning I'll need balance.

 

Hell offends me in many ways. Beyond morality questions, it seems inefficient in a way that goes against nature. I mean nature is efficient, good recycling, non judging, doesn't waste time and effort on human concepts of morality. Suffering exists within it only as a function of cycle completion. I agree with Eckhardt Tolle's view that despite what TV nature programs show, in nature-animals spend there time looking around, resting, looking for food, etc. The kill and flight are a very small part of the over all time structure.

 

In the western world hell is used as a control mechanism to keep the masses in line, the ultimate threat. Its sad to see it prevalent in the East too. I think it makes a mockery of the belief not only in a loving God, but even a neutral one. It posits a psychopathically cruel infinite being. I don't think nature reflects that. People of all practices who touch God in there deepest moments don't reflect it.

 

 

my 2 cents

 

Michael

 

"do you know that you are going to swim in this pool of "poo poo" at the end and get dirty anyway no matter how clean you are now?"

 

Actually I don't know that. Thats your belief, not mine. Its a sad one too. You and all your ancestors in hell or just all your ancestors, cause you've escaped by finding the one true religion.

 

No offense, but if thats your cup of tea, I'll fill up my glass somewhere else.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

You are right to say so....

In fact opening yourself up to what is stated has many dangers...