Reverse breathing dangerious?

[Adj]

[h.uriahr]

The only thing I've ever heard about it is that the breathing helps store chi in the lower dt.

[Taiji Bum]

You cant get high blood pressure from reverse-breathing. High blood pressure is a heart condition.

http://www.medicinenet.com/high_blood_pressure/article.htm

 

You cannot get hemorrhoids reverse from breathing. Everyone already has hemorrhoids too.

http://www.medicinenet.com/hemorrhoids/article.htm

 

If anything, reverse-breathing would help a hernia.

http://www.medicinenet.com/hernia/article.htm

 

Nobody knows what create acid reflux disease.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art...rticlekey=57772

 

There is no real medical data to show that reverse-breathing is harmful. If there is I cant find it. But... it will make you fart.

[fiveelementtao]

I found deep in one book about it, by Dr. Yang Jwing Ming who is also an author with daoist chi gong. He says that there is no Xing Yi documents that say weather you should do reverse or normal abdominal breathing but he said that because it is Daoist it should use Daoist breathing (aka reverse breathing). He also said that this makes sense because Reverse breathing is YANG like Xing Yi and should be used. He also writes, that because we naturally do reverse breathing when lifting things or exerting our body or laughing that in especially XIng Yi you SHOULD use reverse breathing. Also Daoist theory (for those of you who don't know much about it) doing reverse breathing leads the Chi away from the primary Chi channels into the secondary Chi channels near the skin and into the bone marrow making it ultimately more "powerful and healthful." Ultimately I agreed very strongly with Dr. Yang.

 

I'm sorry but I can't think of worse reason to do something. 1, It came from a book 2. The guy who wrote the book says he doesn't know but "it makes sense."... Why would you want to follow that kind of advice?... Dr. Yang's books are informative but he has alot of his history wrong. He also admits that he is not taoist. he sees everything from a shaolin buddhist perspective. He also tends to paint everything with a black and white "Taoist or buddhist" brush. His books are fun to read but I would not take any advice from him on Taoist stuff...

Edited March 8, 2009 by fiveelementtao

[Adj]

I'm sorry but I can't think of worse reason to do something. 1, It came from a book 2. The guy who wrote the book says he doesn't know but "it makes sense."... Why would you want to follow that kind of advice?... Dr. Yang's books are informative but he has alot of his history wrong. He also admits that he is not taoist. he sees everything from a shaolin buddhist perspective. He also tends to paint everything with a black and white "Taoist or buddhist" brush. His books are fun to read but I would not take any advice from him on Taoist stuff...

 

 

Ooo thank you for your opinion on that. Makes me feel better about not doing reverse breathing in my Xing Yi practice.

 

There are a pair of other books by Dr. Yang Jwing ming about Taoist meditaiton particularly embryonic breathing and small circular meditation (which I do not have). The first, embryonic breathing, motivated me into studying and practicing taoist meditation that eventually lead me to this site.

 

How do you feel about his books that are more specifically about Taoist meditation? I know he does extremely good source work.

[fiveelementtao]

Ooo thank you for your opinion on that. Makes me feel better about not doing reverse breathing in my Xing Yi practice.

 

There are a pair of other books by Dr. Yang Jwing ming about Taoist meditaiton particularly embryonic breathing and small circular meditation (which I do not have). The first, embryonic breathing, motivated me into studying and practicing taoist meditation that eventually lead me to this site.

 

How do you feel about his books that are more specifically about Taoist meditation? I know he does extremely good source work.

Well, I have a couple of his books and have read them but I saw that he was very Shaolin oriented in his theories and that made me a little cautious about his stuff. The Shaolin history of Taoism is a little skewed in their favor.... IMO, don't study shaolin from a taoist and don't study Taoism from a buddhist... Thats just my thing. I'm sure that alot of people have had great success with his books. So, I am not trying to say he's good or bad. I'm sure there are many on this forum who have good things to say about him. As I said, I read his books and chose not to follow his advice. When possible, it's always best to learn from a live human as opposed to a book. But in that particular instance.. he himself said he had no idea, "but since it's taoist use taoist breathing" which presupposes that ALL taoist breathing is reverse breathing. This is the kind of mindset that worries me. In that instance, he makes broad judgements based on erroneous presupposition. Now, I'm not even a Xing Yi guy, any xing yi people out there. Does Xing yi use reverse breathing?

[Aetherous]

You cant get high blood pressure from reverse-breathing. High blood pressure is a heart condition.

http://www.medicinenet.com/high_blood_pressure/article.htm

 

You cannot get hemorrhoids reverse from breathing. Everyone already has hemorrhoids too.

http://www.medicinenet.com/hemorrhoids/article.htm

 

If anything, reverse-breathing would help a hernia.

http://www.medicinenet.com/hernia/article.htm

 

Nobody knows what create acid reflux disease.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art...rticlekey=57772

 

There is no real medical data to show that reverse-breathing is harmful. If there is I cant find it. But... it will make you fart. ohmy.gif

 

Darin,

 

I disagree. It is very possible to get high blood pressure, hemorrhoids, hernias and acid reflux disease from these types of methods. Real medical data is always after the fact...and I don't really know of any decent studies on different types of breathing. So it doesn't make sense to ask for real medical data about Taoist practices, which for the most part don't capture the attention of the medical community. And if there does exist some odd study, I'm sure it's biased towards saying that "these practices are good for relaxation" etc.

 

I trust my own body over what anyone tells me, and my body says that without a great foundation, it's a dangerous practice.

 

If anyone ever feels bad effects from a practice, that's a sign that it's not right for them and they should try something else.

[Spectrum]

He's protecting you. Most importantly what did you feel when you experimented with breathing methods? There are man. Reverse, compression, vacuum, condensation, etc.

 

One Chen teacher I learned it from had me use force to push the dantien down on exhale.

 

That's not the reverse breathing I learned. What that describes is simply emptying the diaphram of stale air, but it's not "reverse" as I was taught. I don't see anything wrong with compressing the lower abdomin to get ride of old aire.

 

Reverse Breathing as I've learned is breathing in through the mouth w/ aspirated haa and out through the nose aspirated hen(g); pushing the naval outwards on the exhale and pulling it in on the inhale. It was suggested to me that I use it when sick, for breif periods of time as it reverses the orbit direction, and has a tonic effect.

 

Condensation Breathing: What we learned in the wei dan forms was condensation breathing which utilizes the natural vacuum and compression of the torso cavity by completely empting the lower dan tien and regulated the inhale w/ the throat/tounge aspirated hen so a vacuum forms in the cavity from the natural expansion of the dantien after it's compression. on the exhale tongue drops and aspirated haa regulates the breath. No tension is held in the torso, it is the vocal cavity which regulates the breath, the mind can be completely free and the body can completely relax and melt into the breath.

 

Condensation breathing works in the same way a super charger gives a car more horse power than the old fashioned carburator. The coolest thing about it is how relaxing it is as once the upper cavities expansion creates compression and lower cavities compression creates vacuum, you go zoom zoom vroom vroom.

 

I used to hold my breath under water in the bathtub, I suppose I could have drowned. Experiment small. Less is more.

[ralis]

Instead of listening to someone who is merely guessing, why not buy a blood pressure cuff and find out if the blood pressure is affected. Put these teachers and so called experts to the test. Why does one keep on listening to someone who may or may not know what they are talking about.

 

ralis

Edited March 9, 2009 by ralis

[Adj]

Instead of listening to someone who is merely guessing, why not buy a blood pressure cuff and find out if the blood pressure is affected. Put these teachers and so called experts to the test. Why does one keep on listening to someone who may or may not know what they are talking about.

 

ralis

 

 

Good point, I won't listen to you then.

 

 

Overall I asked this same question in Xing Yi boards. No one could really answer me. Some say they do, others say they don't do reverse breathing.

 

Ultimately my instructor tells me not to. So I wont, even if it is safe. There is a reason he is telling me not to. Perhaps because I am too young or he hasnt found the time to teach me how to do it correctly. Who knows. I just say Yes Shirfu and listen. And no reverse breathing in my Xing Yi practice or meditation practices until some one properly teaches me how to do it for my meditation practices only.

[Guest paul walter]

Reverse breathing is a natural outcome of being perfectly empty. If you force it as with any chi practice you stuff yourself up. Most if these 'unnatural' practices that harm practitioners seem to happen when you apply martial style attainment to natural processes from what I've heard- you actually do a yang on what was a yin process. It's like meditating -meditating should usually come after 'enlightenment', then you will come to understand you were in the way of your own desire to be free of your desire for outcome (and round and round it goes). It's very humbling to know that what is consciously desired in a willed sense creates the opposite of the outcome you are chasing (except we don't honestly know what we are after since we haven't 'experienced' it). Watch a baby breathing while they are sleeping if you can. Empty/Full.

 

Reverse breathing is a natural outcome of being perfectly empty. If you force it as with any chi practice you stuff yourself up. Most if these 'unnatural' practices that harm practitioners seem to happen when you apply martial style attainment to natural processes from what I've heard- you actually do a yang on what was a yin process. It's like meditating -meditating should usually come after 'enlightenment', then you will come to understand you were in the way of your own desire to be free of your desire for outcome (and round and round it goes). It's very humbling to know that what is consciously desired in a willed sense creates the opposite of the outcome you are chasing (except we don't honestly know what we are after since we haven't 'experienced' it). Watch a baby breathing while they are sleeping if you can. Empty/Full.

 

 

I forgot to say reverse breathing came naturally when I succeeded to tao twenty or more years ago. It hasnt changed since-as long as you are completely without tension in your mind/body it comes of its own accord.

for the last four years I was forced into shallow (chest and higher breathing) breathing by an unfortunate threatening alliance with a girl'friend' and it almost killed me. reverse breathing has returned and I am healing VERY fast now- I feel the chi going boom boom in that area now. stay empty...

[shidadao]

As far as I know, (and that is, as far as I was taught), reverse breathing - also called correct breathing, is not forced in anyway, or used when moving around. Mostly, I was taught to do it in a seated position, but sometimes when standing, but stood in a relaxed manner, and definitely not when moving.

 

It can be a quick method of acquiring energy. Literally separating qi from carbon dioxide - the latter is breathed out, whilst the former is taken down into the Dan Tian

 

Charles Luk has written two books containing reliable information; one is Taoist Yoga, and the other is Secrets of Chinese Meditation. Luk trained under a Daoist master, and conveys interesting information and practical advice. Not everyone should do this method, and if they do, it should be under the guidance of a qualified master - the warnings are clear.

 

I think Xingyi is a battlefield art - possibly based upon the wuxing (five phases) of qi transformation. And probably not Daoist in the true sense. Therefore, reverse breathing would not be a suitable practice for this art.

 

As for medical concerns, there has not been any reliable research that concludes that reverse breathing is systemically dangerous when practiced. Individuals may have had medical complaints before starting reverse breathing, or develop health issues due to unconnected reasons. Do not practice without proper guidance. I have used reverse breathing for 20 years, with no associated ailments.

Edited March 9, 2009 by shidadao

[Qlites]

Hi Adj. Which lineage of Xing-Yi do you do? I been doing Kenny Gong lineage for 5 years now. There is a reverse breathing in his system. I was told to do it for a hundred days straight. It build chi in my boby, open channels, and other benefit to my Xing Yi and other internal arts that I practice.

 

You have to do embryonic breathing first to build the first level strength or you will have issue doing reverse breathing.

 

Peace,

Q..

[h.uriahr]

Good point, I won't listen to you then.

Overall I asked this same question in Xing Yi boards. No one could really answer me. Some say they do, others say they don't do reverse breathing.

 

Ultimately my instructor tells me not to. So I wont, even if it is safe. There is a reason he is telling me not to. Perhaps because I am too young or he hasnt found the time to teach me how to do it correctly. Who knows. I just say Yes Shirfu and listen. And no reverse breathing in my Xing Yi practice or meditation practices until some one properly teaches me how to do it for my meditation practices only.

 

It could be that he is biased towards his own techniques or that he was never taught reverse breathing. No insult intended.

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited August 26, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Spectrum]

Less is more. Try easy. Experiment.

[goldisheavy]

Nobody knows what create acid reflux disease.

 

I know. But then again, I am nobody, so maybe it's right after all.

 

The acid reflux "disease" (more like a condition) is created when you cannot accept food into your system. When you eat, you have to have the conception that food is becoming part of you. If you feel like you've eaten and yet the food and you are still two different entities, and the food is not becoming mentally accepted by you, it will come out of your mouth, or you'll have diarrhea, which is another kind of food rejection, and which one will manifest will depend on the specifics of your mindset and your state of mind/being at the time.

 

This condition can be caused by stress (duh! stress can cause anything), by being in a hurry, eating too fast, thinking about something urgent while eating (instead of thinking about food you're eating or thinking about something pleasant and slow), etc. Especially if you have a habit of stuffing yourself on the run, you can get that condition.

 

My suggestion is to slow down, forget your job or whatever else is bothering you, and either think about food, or think nothing (if you can do that), or think something slow and pleasant, something that doesn't put you into a state of urgency or a state of survival alertness.

 

Most importantly, if you focus on why you are rejecting the food, you'll know it yourself. You don't need me to tell you. Everyone knows where their diseases are coming from.

 

--------

 

Secondly, what is natural and what is not natural really depends on individual make up. What's natural for one is completely unnatural for another. That's why you have to use your own head and think for yourself when using techniques. If you think all techniques are universal, work for all people under all circumstances, then you are strongly deluded and the teachers are just making you stupider and stupider as you absorb more and more techniques without any nuance in your understanding.

Edited March 10, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Spectrum]

Especially if you have a habit of stuffing yourself on the run, you can get that condition.

 

Generally speaking a regular exercise routine will help relax the mind enough to bring the breathing into rhythm. Meditation exercises like chi gung specialize in this. After that experimentingly gently with different rhythms is just that, experimental and helps sweeten the enjoyment of practice. Like experimenting holding your breath under water when your a kid or slowshing back and forth in the tub. Forcing anything doesn't feel good and is like trying to force threading a needle.

 

My suggestion is to slow down, forget your job or whatever else is bothering you, and either think about food, or think nothing (if you can do that), or think something slow and pleasant, something that doesn't put you into a state of urgency or a state of survival alertness.

 

Wuji. Move Liver Fire

 

Most importantly, if you focus on why you are rejecting the food, you'll know it yourself. You don't need me to tell you. Everyone knows where their diseases are coming from.

 

dis eases : forget about focusing on the problem. just remember your learning the solution by letting go. It doesn't help to focus on the pain of getting punched in the face, it helps to remember to step to the side when you get a feed that tells you that punch is coming.

 

--------

 

Secondly, what is natural and what is not natural really depends on individual make up. What's natural for one is completely unnatural for another.

 

It's natural to avoid pain. Animals do it too. Thats the mind illusion separating into the duality. Pain and Pleasure bind us all together. Stand still and die. Holding your arms up is relaxing. Without wuji your talking like a fat goose quacks before i eat his liver.

 

That's why you have to use your own head and think for yourself when using techniques.

 

Experience is the Mother of Wisdom. The most important situations in your life require no thought... simple intantaneous action. Like getting out of the way of a moving car.

 

If you think all techniques are universal, work for all people under all circumstances, then you are strongly deluded and the teachers are just making you stupider and stupider as you absorb more and more techniques without any nuance in your understanding.

 

Theres no end to letting go. You can let go forever. From knowing one technique of finding wuji, all techniques you could ever learn literally spring to life from that common origin. Our human origin. From wuji the chinese comological drama plays out in human form. A timeless drama. In all classical forms of chinese movement education the "opening" of the form opens a gateway to the "empti" space called "wuji" which oils the hinges of the "gates" allowing a variety of combinations of possible "planes".

 

Perhaps this is interdimensional travel, picking things up, climbing ladders, stepping over rocks, balancing on beams, stepping through doorways, getting out of the way of falling objects. It's all profound when you lose yourself in the accidental moments.

 

It's beauty in motion rooted in stillness. No division, from ten thousand to one, from one ten thousand. stillness in motion. No drones, theres peace at the center of the cyclone. Peace is Bliss.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Spectrum

[宁]

I think many of the practices were invented/conceived for practicioners that are in good health.

Unfortunately, the Western lifestyle is VERY unhealthy.

So that's what happens when you get trouble. Instead of blaming the cause (POOR HEALTH), you blame the practices... Altogether with the attitude: Oh, spare me, I know better...

Sad and Funny at the same time...