How Confucianism Departed From the Dao

[Gaxtal]

Edited March 9, 2009 by Gaxtal

[goldisheavy]

Edited March 10, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Gaxtal]

But at the end of the day, political and economic systems are of low importance compared to spiritual development. If you really want to change the world, forget politics, and work to soften and to broaden the rigid, dogmatic and narrow mindsets that people have.

 

"If you really want to change the world, work to soften and to broaden the rigid .... that people have."

 

But, How ?

[goldisheavy]

"If you really want to change the world, work to soften and to broaden the rigid .... that people have."

 

But, How ?

 

It's very easy, at least conceptually. You start with yourself.

[lienshan]

It's very easy, at least conceptually. You start with yourself.

Start with a face lift?

[shidadao]

I am not sure about the economic question, but I thought the following quote from Confucius might be interesting;

 

'The Master said; "Riches and honours are what men desire. If they can not be obtained in the proper way, they should not be held. Poverty and meanness are what men dislike. If they can not be avoided in the proper way, they should not be avoided.'

 

Lunyu: 4:5

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I have taken a quick look at the whole article and I have to say that the author makes reckless generalizations about complex subjects, for example, he speaks of Confucianism like some ignorant critic of Biblical fundamentalists might speak of 'Christians' without realizing the diversity of 'Christian' belief and practice, such as the distinction between Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox and mainline Protestantism. Thus the radical distinction between Mencius and Xunzi is glossed over completely. Worse than that, this confusion seems to be exploited for polemical purposes to create an invidious comparison of Confucianism to a simple minded and chimerical unification of Legalism and Daoism, but the whole point of 'the Dao which cannot be spoken' is to subvert the core of Legalism which is the notion that exact and well formed definitions of, for example, political offices can be created so that exact and well formed rewards and punishments can be administered by the state.

 

This sites apparent advocacy of Lord Shang is even worse, since he is not even an example of 'philosophical' Legalism as exemplified by Han Feizi, rather Lord Shang is basically a militaristic protofascist, whose ruthless doctrines may have helped the Qin State unify China, but also lead to the tyranny of the first emperor's reign which caused the dynasty's downfall as soon as the first Tyrant (On a personal level I am not sure he really deserved to be called a 'Di', but in this case the usage is rhetorical/polemical and not historical) was dead.

 

On the other hand the Mencian branch of Confucianism is quite mystical. In my own research there is a strong link between Mencius and the Neiye, and this also seems to be connected with aspects of early Daoism. It is the authority of Mencius that allows the Song Confucians to assimilate Daoism and Buddhism into that great body of thought usually referred to as Neo-Confucianism and raises the question of whether Confucianism ever departed from the Dao, or whether its profound name was simply kidnapped by Xunzi, who from this perspective should be viewed as the founding robber baron of a long line of 'thieves of virtue'.

 

For an enlightening discussion of the early history of the 'Dao' see A. C. Graham's Disputer's of the Tao, which should be on the reading list of everyone who is interested in Daoism and how the various daos became the eternal Dao.

[Adj]

So much talk about softening the ridged.

 

Too much Yin! There is a total lack of Yang particularly with westerners who have men who completely lack masculinity and are all way too YIN.

 

I think the answer is strengthening the weak, hardening the softies who won't stand up for THEMSELVES and ALLOW others to walk all over them.

 

There would not be these problems if there was not so many damn softies. Wanna know what happens to the ridged if the softies had a pair of balls? The ridged would get their asses kicked.

 

"give me freedom or give me death." Those are the chants of men standing up for themselves in the face of the ridged. And it was those men who allow you to read this post.

 

This whole idea to soften the hard by being a pacifist is entirely idealistic and completely unrealistic. The pacifists again and again have been walked over all throughout history.

 

At one point in CHINA the pacifists grew a pair and from softies became hard. They were called Shaolin. Damo came in and made these pacifist monks into killing machines and they proceed to change the history of the east.

 

Open any history book and they are riddled with those stories.

 

You need compassion AND you need strength. One without the other causes problems. Even Ghandi, who won India's freedom without firing a single bullet was hard as nails.

 

This whole idea of being soft and gentle and stuff is just making things worse.

 

You wanna change yourself first before changing the world. DEVELOP YOUR CONFIDENCE. Develop your ability to SPEAK UP for yourself. Develop your body with HARD work and effort (gong fu) and VIBRATE your STRENGTH and vitality.

 

This whole concept of victims and villains is only from the mindset of LOSERS too lazy to stand up for themselves.

 

Super rich and powerful corporations? If they were such a problem, 90% of the so called victims will go and make their own society. But that does not happen. Because they would rather cry and be controlled than stand up for themselves. They are WILLING victims. How crazy is that?

 

The problem are not the rigid, the problem are the pansies allowing others to walk all over them.