.

[NeutralWire]

Depending on what you mean by psyche, I may not agree with this. The personality is like the surface of a planet. There are peaks and valleys, forests and rivers. But the true stuff is formed deep, deep down inside. People who spend time on psychology will only rearrange the furniture on the surface. In order to get down deep, you need to go to the core. One can make a nice, colorful prison for oneself, but fundamentally, it is still a prison.

 

Before it was hijacked by scientists (a couple of thousand years before), psyche meant 'soul' in the west.

 

But my friend, if you think I'm advocating staying on the surface and never seeing the depths you are molto mistaken.

 

NW

[goldisheavy]

I think this table gives a false impression. I think 10-12 years is roughly a "right" period of time to achieve a breakthrough or "next level", whatever you want to call it, but...

 

First, I wouldn't call it mastery. I believe spiritual evolution is endless and there is no such thing as mastery because it is not something well defined and measurable in the first place. It's more art than science. And even while philosophy beget modern science, I still think philosophy itself a little closer to art than to science. To me philosophy is love of wisdom, which is an older Socratic meaning.

 

Secondly, the table makes one think that more is always better and that there is no such thing as diminishing returns and that both resting and leisure are somehow unholy, wasteful, unproductive. It also seems to imply that spiritual practice is a dumb chore like sweeping the floor. So if you sweep for 16 hours a day you sweep more. Even for a mindless chore like sweeping the principle of diminishing returns seems applicable.

 

I think it's true that if someone is committed to a certain lifestyle for a decade, there will be a profound change in one's life. If you lead a contemplative lifestyle for 10 years, you won't be able to look at anything the same way again, that's for sure. Also, people think that questions and concerns are endless. But if you spend a decade contemplating your concerns, they do melt, at least in my experience. In my experience there are big chunks of time where there is literally nothing to think about... not because the mind is being held by concentration, but because it's devoid of concerns, so there is nothing to think about anyway, so it naturally becomes quiescent, without techniques. At the same time, should conditions change, the mind is instantly ready to do what is perceived to be necessary. It's not stuck in quiescence. So can't really call it an "attainment", because it's not a permanent state, but if you still have memories of your old mind/heart life, it does seem like a change. I am mixing different perspectives, as usual, because I am assuming some commonality of experience.

 

The problem I think is that this table is a result of studying mundane, conventional forms of mastery. For example, lifting weights or running or playing a guitar. Even then, for lifters, I think the most dedicated lifters experience improvements for their entire lifetime, practically to death. Bruce Lee also, I believe, said that he hasn't found any walls in his practice, he just kept getting better till he died (arguably he was pretty young though). In either case, I don't think spiritual evolution should be compared to a conventional skill. Not at all.

 

Spiritual people practice many mundane, if rare or strange skills, like energy manipulation. But the core of spirituality is wisdom and mystery, and those just can't be measured in a conventional way, pretty much by definition, because they underlie or precede convention and are therefore not subject to convention.

Edited March 11, 2009 by goldisheavy

[AugustLeo]

.

[goldisheavy]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Please explain why you think what you think.

 

Doh. That's what the rest of my post was for.

 

Consider the differrence between an implication an an inference.

 

Yes, what is the difference? It's kind of fuzzy. An implication is perceived to be an immediate connection, almost involuntary and effortless. Inference is perceived to be a more distant connection, usually requiring mental effort and intent. In reality I think the difference between these two is not very clear. It's only clear if you just leave the definition uncontemplated, as it is with most things. In any case, if you have a deeper point to make, you should be more direct and not try to hint at it.

 

The table was my take based on published results of studies done with Tibetan Buddhist meditators under the auspices of the Dalai Lama.

Thanks for sharing.

 

Yes, I've seen similar studies being reported in the media, even recently. If you can measure something, it is mundane, conventional. It's not bad or evil. Mundanity is an ornament of awareness. However, if you perceive the ornament to be the root of meaning, that's a tragedy in my view.

[AugustLeo]

.

[voidisyinyang]

Santiago had mentioned that Glenn could suck the jing from somebody -- and I'd just like to clarify that is also the secret to energy transmission. Once the third eye is open the body-mind transduces other peoples' sex energy into love-light energy and this love-light energy is then euphoric healing kundalini. Once qigong master Chunyi Lin stated he was giving a class down in Sedona AZ and a couple there was sucking up his energy to use for evil purposes. In this case it's the OPPOSITE of using jing to create laser-light -- it's using jing to create more sex fluid for selfish reasons. Qigong Master Chunyi Lin let these people take his energy for their own evil reasons because he said the more energy you take the more I have to give. This is because when the third eye is fully open then the mind can just recharge the energy directly from pure consciousness. I just read the biography of Sri Anandi Ma's guru -- Sri Dhyanyogi-ji. He gave shaktipat transmissions to thousands but in order to do that he ALSO took in the evil energy of people -- their illnesses. So afterwards he would have to do intensive meditation for a week or maybe a month to recharge his energy. In the end when he moved to the U.S. the negative karma he took in was too strong and he had to move back to India where he died at the age of 116.

[Mal]

[Vajrasattva]

Edited March 12, 2009 by Vajrasattva

[三江源]

One's psychology is locked in one's body, in the organs, the fascia, the deep tissues, in one's karma.

 

Hence one's psychology gets transformed and revealed by opening a dialogue with the body spirits and harmonising their energies. Ones karma unravels.

 

 

About Laziness. I am quite incredibly lazy lately, I am fairly freaked by how lazy I feel. I have become Mistress of Procrastination. I hope it is a phase in balancing.. because .. ahh.. I have stuff to do and I am not doing it.

 

About preparation practices, re. Neut's post... 'readiness is all' and some people will not be ready in their current lifetime. I take the long view.

 

I hope taking the long view isnt part of laziness... ie dont worry, be happy, there's always another day, meaning, actually "I'm too apathetic right now.."

 

What is laziness, actually? I guess there is a positive and a negative side to it... but I wonder how we distinguish false yin in ourselves. It is easier to distinguish false yang, I think. Hmmm..

[Sunya]

....some folks should have done their homework with Deity Yoga & Avishkara Yoga.

 

 

Santiago

 

what do visualization exercises have to do with communing with non physical spirits?

[NeutralWire]

Santiago:

 

even then its good to kick your self in the ass and bust a bit so you get to a new level.

 

Agree strongly!

 

cat

 

What is laziness, actually?

 

Well I think your remarks are cogent. Laziness for me is basically lack of interest, lack of enthusiasm, lack of love for what one is doing, no creativity, settling for a repeating pattern etc. etc.

 

It's what happens when you've forgotten the goal you are striving for, are not getting good 'success feedback' and/or haven't persistence.

 

Life will keep kicking one in the butt to solve specific issues, but for the full deal, you will be looking at self-motivation. It's a love thing is what it is.

 

Agree about psychology.

 

NW

Edited March 12, 2009 by NeutralWire

[rex]

...

 

[sorry, question on Avishkara Yoga deleted]

Edited March 12, 2009 by rex

[Vajrasattva]

Santiago

 

what do visualization exercises have to do with communing with non physical spirits?

 

Are they just Visual exercises?

[CarsonZi]

Hi forestofsouls,

Have you been liberated?

From some things yes. From others no. I have been liberated of my addiction to heroin, methadone, methamphetamine, and marijuana. I have been liberated from most of my suffering. I have been liberated from trying to appease anyone but myself. I have not acheived "spiritual liberation" though. I still have the veil of seperation wrapped around my head. But the veil is thinner today then it was yesterday and that's all I can realistically strive for IMO.

 

Love,

Carson

[forestofsouls]

The only people I've run across that seem to approach anything close to a level of liberation have worked their butts off. I think this sort of "nothing is necessary" approach disempowers individuals from taking responsibilities for their own spiritual growth.

 

I don't think a sage would sit around waiting for the Tao to direct a roast pigeon into their mouth.

 

As Michael (lerner) said in another post: 10,000 hours of sitting IS the short cut.

 

From some things yes. From others no. I have been liberated of my addiction to heroin, methadone, methamphetamine, and marijuana. I have been liberated from most of my suffering. I have been liberated from trying to appease anyone but myself. I have not acheived "spiritual liberation" though. I still have the veil of seperation wrapped around my head. But the veil is thinner today then it was yesterday and that's all I can realistically strive for IMO.

[CarsonZi]

The only people I've run across that seem to approach anything close to a level of liberation have worked their butts off. I think this sort of "nothing is necessary" approach disempowers individuals from taking responsibilities for their own spiritual growth.

 

I don't think a sage would sit around waiting for the Tao to direct a roast pigeon into their mouth.

 

As Michael (lerner) said in another post: 10,000 hours of sitting IS the short cut.

Sorry forestofsouls, but am I missing something? Where did I say that "nothing is necessary"? Personally my daily practice set looks like this:

 

10-15 minutes of postures, mostly postures from the Bikrams series but also with Plow Pose and

a few Vinyasa postures as well.

3 minutes of Nauli Kriya

2 minutes of Navi Kriya

5 minutes of Bastrika Pranayam

5 repetitions of Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka

10 minutes of Spinal Breathing Pranayam while sitting in Siddhasana with Mulabandha, Uddiyanabandha,

Sambhavi and Kechari Mudra (any one of the 4 stages) all engaged. (SBP is a root to brow

visualization with slow deep inhales with an open throat and slow deep exhales using ujjyai breath,

all through the nostrils)

2 repetitions each direction of Jalandhara Chin Pump (AYP style)

20 minutes of Deep Meditation using the "i am" or "ayam" mantra

5 minutes of Samyama with 2 repetitions of each of the sutras (Love, Radiance, Unity, Health,

Strength, Abundance, Wisdom, Inner Sensuality, Akasha) with 15 seconds silence in-between

5 minutes of Targetted Bastrika Pranayam

10-15 minutes of silent rest

 

I do this twice a day, once before breakfast and once before dinner.

 

During the day I practice Mindfulness and Self Inquiry. The Self Inquiry method I use is

"The Work" as written by Byron Katie in "Loving What Is". At night in bed I practice Yoga

Nidra to fall asleep.

 

This doesn't even go into the tantric sexual practices I am involved in both solo and with my wife.

 

I don't believe that "nothing is necessary" for liberation but merely that nothing IN PARTICULAR is necessary for liberation. Liberation IS possible in this lifetime and IMO the only thing that is ABSOLUTELY necessary for this to occur is desire for liberation. That's all I was meaning. Hope this clears that little misunderstanding up.

 

Love,

Carson

[forestofsouls]

Carson,

 

Right here:

 

Nothing is necessary except desire for liberation.

 

I think I misunderstood it--- You seem to now say that not one thing is necessary, not that nothing is necessary. Sorry, I think I tend to overreact when I think I sense "neo-advaita" at work.

 

Sort of like nothing v. No thing!

 

Glad we cleared it up! Carry on!

Edited March 12, 2009 by forestofsouls

[BrokenFist64]

I'm currently taking KAP1 with Santi and it's only been I believe 3 weeks in so can't comment on much other than I'm really enjoying it so far I usually practice an hour in the morning, maybe 10 mins here and there throughout the day and 1hr - 1hr 30mins at night.

[Blind Owl]

[goldisheavy]

When one has a genuine desire for liberation, nothing else is necessary. In what sense is this true?

 

It's true in a sense that genuine desire for liberation translates spontaneously and naturally into self-liberating activity. It transforms itself into contemplation, meditation, visiting Gurus, staying away from Gurus, practicing this and that, searching, resting, relaxing, sharing, having fun, and so on, in the name of liberation.

 

It's impossible to have a genuine desire for something that doesn't manifest anything and just sort of remains "as a desire". So when you say it's all that's necessary, that's because you can safely assume that if the desire is genuine, for sure the right phenomena and the right activity will manifest, no doubt about it. What's "right" is going to be different for everyone. For some people it might be just one thought and that's enough. For others it might be 100 lifetimes of searching and practicing. There is no standard path because everyone's obscurations are different. Depending on what obscures your ability to see, a different method and tactic is appropriate. For example, if you are too willful, then generating more activity and practicing more is precisely the wrong approach. If you are too passive and fatalistic, then generating more activity and practicing something is correct. There is no single correct answer that suits everyone. One size does not fit all, especially when it comes to particulars. At the ultimate level it's all the same path, or even better, no path at all.

Edited March 14, 2009 by goldisheavy

[sinno]

KAP has really changed my life...I'm really about to start going hard with my practices by doing 4 hours of KAP a day...Im getting alot of kriyas and Spontaneous bliss throughout my whole body and I haven't even started doing the Microcosmic Orbit or 5pb yet(which will change today) so I feel that its time to start and strike while the iron is hot...Ive asked my Higher Self to help me to come up with a practice regimen and I think I've got it now

 

During the day, I just work on the 5 elements at random times...Whenever I have 10 minutes to spare Ill just go through the elements..KAP is convenient like that..like yesterday I did my Tummo Breath while watching videos on the internet...and I even did it while playing videogames once...Around 9pm I try to practice Trataka for 20 minutes...Then jump to 2am that's when my 2 hours of Microcosmic Orbit & 2 hours of 5pb start...When I go to sleep then I practice Yoga Nidra

[sinno]

skybound..

[CarsonZi]

Namaste Goldisheavy.....

 

You confuse me a little. You say things like what is quoted directly below:

When one has a genuine desire for liberation, nothing else is necessary. In what sense is this true?

...but then you go and say in exactly what sense this is true (below). Contradicting nothing I said.

It's true in a sense that genuine desire for liberation translates spontaneously and naturally into self-liberating activity. It transforms itself into contemplation, meditation, visiting Gurus, staying away from Gurus, practicing this and that, searching, resting, relaxing, sharing, having fun, and so on, in the name of liberation.

Exactly what I was saying in my March 12th 8:32am post. No contradictions there...

It's impossible to have a genuine desire for something that doesn't manifest anything and just sort of remains "as a desire". So when you say it's all that's necessary, that's because you can safely assume that if the desire is genuine, for sure the right phenomena and the right activity will manifest, no doubt about it.

Exactly

What's "right" is going to be different for everyone. For some people it might be just one thought and that's enough. For others it might be 100 lifetimes of searching and practicing. There is no standard path because everyone's obscurations are different.

Exactly. My exact words were: "I don't believe that "nothing is necessary" for liberation but merely that nothing IN PARTICULAR is necessary for liberation" Meaning that what works for one will not necessarily work for another as we are all different and have different obstructions.

Depending on what obscures your ability to see, a different method and tactic is appropriate. For example, if you are too willful, then generating more activity and practicing more is precisely the wrong approach. If you are too passive and fatalistic, then generating more activity and practicing something is correct. There is no single correct answer that suits everyone. One size does not fit all, especially when it comes to particulars. At the ultimate level it's all the same path, or even better, no path at all.

Couldn't agree more. There are no absolutes in life and it is no different with our spiritual journeys.

 

Love,

Carson:D

[ToL]

Santiago,

Just wanted to thank you for bringing KAP and Glenn Morris work,

I've started to read Path Notes of an American Ninja Master, and it's amazing.

"my life began to pass before my eyes as if I were watching a movie running backwards in

slow motion."

"The wildest memory was of being sperm. Even sperm has consciousness"

 

I recommend everyone to read it.

[Vajrasattva]

Santiago,

Just wanted to thank you for bringing KAP and Glenn Morris work,

I've started to read Path Notes of an American Ninja Master, and it's amazing.

"my life began to pass before my eyes as if I were watching a movie running backwards in

slow motion."

"The wildest memory was of being sperm. Even sperm has consciousness"

 

I recommend everyone to read it.

 

 

: )