SANTIAGO DOBLES'S SECRET CLUB Where I take all your money & you Learn nothing.

[sinno]

Santiago has helped me alot along my way and he is also a great friend and teacher...he does things out of the kindness of his heart and has helped me tremendously and through him doing that it has enabled me to helped other people around me also...Goldisheavy, please take the stick out your ass...Santiago offered you a chance to practice with Sheik Nazim OR Pak Muhammad and you declined..I understand some practices being kept secret...Like Santi said you can fuck yourself up if you don't have a teacher by your side guiding you through these practices and it also tests to see who is actually serious about their practices..Obviously, you arent or else you would have taken Santiago up on his offer...And one thing I will say is it doesn't matter how many words you type or how many threads you make until you get experience under your belt they mean NOTHING...and its funny how you skip over all of the Truthful statements in people's post and pick something that has nothing to do with the actual point they were trying to make too..All I will say is Santiago gives out of the kindness of his heart...I know people who he gave empowerments to without asking for a dime(me included)..In fact, he OFFERED it to me...I was having trouble with my Yoga Nidra practice and he, through his kindness, gave me a better technique for Yoga Nidra w/ the empowerment for it also without asking for a dime and I FELT like giving him a donation...He didn't ask but I FELT like giving him a donation just because he was so kind..So please don't speak on this man or what he does unless you know what your talking about..That's my 2 cents

 

Peace & God Bless

Edited March 14, 2009 by sinno

[Sunya]

gold,

 

i too find it hard to reconcile spirituality with money. the whole idea of teachings with conditions has bothered me, for some time. but money, in our society is energy. it has meaning, we give it that meaning. for my birthday i always tell my family to give me money, not a gift. of course I can say don't give me anything at all, but they really want to give me something, energy, and the best form of that energy is money, since some other gift would be something that I don't need. so likewise if you have a teacher and he is giving you teachings, to repay him in money is not wrong, but the conditions, thats a problem, i agree with you on that. to be forced to give..instead of asked. this makes many people uncomfortable. i think teachers should be more responsible, and not rely on their students for the basic needs of survival. this just isn't the old days anymore, and to commercialize spirituality (new age movement) is a mistake. leads to spiritual materialism and false view.

 

about Kundalini issues, I also agree with you about that. I think meditating on emptiness and no-self are the cures for any Kundalini issues. all of these arise from grasping to an "I", whoever was having issues with Vipassana wasn't meditating with the proper view. Zen doesn't even mention this subtle phenomena and they do quite fine. so I also agree with you that whatever Santi taught him, was only a temporary fix, because the belief in a real self still exists.

[goldisheavy]

i too find it hard to reconcile spirituality with money. the whole idea of teachings with conditions has bothered me, for some time. but money, in our society is energy. it has meaning, we give it that meaning. for my birthday i always tell my family to give me money, not a gift.

 

I don't find a problem with money and business. It's strange that I constantly have to remind everyone about me not finding problems with money and business.

 

What I have a problem with is mischaracterization. It's wrong to say that a business deal is unconditional or free giving. When you buy something in the store, you cannot say that what you have bought was freely given. It wasn't freely given. And it's OK that it was given conditionally. Just call it what it is.

 

There are people in the world who do give of themselves freely. It's not business at all. They put no conditions on knowledge and wisdom at all. Whatever you learn is fully yours 100%, unconditionally. These people should not be confused with tradesmen.

 

about Kundalini issues, I also agree with you about that. I think meditating on emptiness and no-self are the cures for any Kundalini issues. all of these arise from grasping to an "I", whoever was having issues with Vipassana wasn't meditating with the proper view. Zen doesn't even mention this subtle phenomena and they do quite fine.

 

Exactly. There is a good reason why in many traditions you don't play with energy as a means for enlightenment.

 

According to tradition Buddha Gotama was completely enlightened and could perform miracles such as emitting water and fire from his chest, and yet he said not a single word about kundalini in any of the Suttas. There is not a single word about kundalini in any of the works on nagualism. There is assemblage point, which Hindus don't even know about. There are energy compartments. But it's not kundalini -- not even close. Kabbalah energy configurations are also different. Truth is, there are many simultaneous, different, competing ideas about subtle energies. What does this mean? It means these visions are cultural, relative, empty (in the Buddhist sense), unique. They are not "HOW IT IS". They are how it is for some people in some belief systems. There is nothing universal about them if you look at them honestly.

 

Even physical human anatomy is not universal. Some people have few more muscles than others, etc. People just don't pay attention to this. We all want to think that everything we know and see is objective and universally applicable. The only universal "thing" is the highest wisdom, which is very abstract and has no particular concrete representation at all.

[三江源]

.

Edited March 15, 2015 by 三江源

[jaloo]

goldisheavy,

 

You definitely seem to think you are an authority, at least enough to challenge Santi. Yet you have provided no details about yourself or your background to backup your "authority". Anyone can spout rehashed pieces from spiritual literature, but can you back it up with practice?

 

So, how old are you? What have you studied and who have you studied with? What is your current practice?

 

I'm sure with your extensive background, much greater than most of ours, you should be able to provide some depth to backup your statements.

[ralis]

gold,

 

i too find it hard to reconcile spirituality with money. the whole idea of teachings with conditions has bothered me, for some time. but money, in our society is energy. it has meaning, we give it that meaning. for my birthday i always tell my family to give me money, not a gift. of course I can say don't give me anything at all, but they really want to give me something, energy, and the best form of that energy is money, since some other gift would be something that I don't need. so likewise if you have a teacher and he is giving you teachings, to repay him in money is not wrong, but the conditions, thats a problem, i agree with you on that. to be forced to give..instead of asked. this makes many people uncomfortable. i think teachers should be more responsible, and not rely on their students for the basic needs of survival. this just isn't the old days anymore, and to commercialize spirituality (new age movement) is a mistake. leads to spiritual materialism and false view.

 

about Kundalini issues, I also agree with you about that. I think meditating on emptiness and no-self are the cures for any Kundalini issues. all of these arise from grasping to an "I", whoever was having issues with Vipassana wasn't meditating with the proper view. Zen doesn't even mention this subtle phenomena and they do quite fine. so I also agree with you that whatever Santi taught him, was only a temporary fix, because the belief in a real self still exists.

 

I am the one you refer to with the so called improper view. You know nothing around my life or circumstances with which to make a judgment. You assume much with your judgments. Your ideas around kundalini issues are just ideas. Have you had kundalini problems in your life? From your use of "I" it is obvious you still believe in a real self. Count how many times you use it. LOL!!

 

ralis

 

 

I don't find a problem with money and business. It's strange that I constantly have to remind everyone about me not finding problems with money and business.

 

What I have a problem with is mischaracterization. It's wrong to say that a business deal is unconditional or free giving. When you buy something in the store, you cannot say that what you have bought was freely given. It wasn't freely given. And it's OK that it was given conditionally. Just call it what it is.

 

There are people in the world who do give of themselves freely. It's not business at all. They put no conditions on knowledge and wisdom at all. Whatever you learn is fully yours 100%, unconditionally. These people should not be confused with tradesmen.

Exactly. There is a good reason why in many traditions you don't play with energy as a means for enlightenment.

 

According to tradition Buddha Gotama was completely enlightened and could perform miracles such as emitting water and fire from his chest, and yet he said not a single word about kundalini in any of the Suttas. There is not a single word about kundalini in any of the works on nagualism. There is assemblage point, which Hindus don't even know about. There are energy compartments. But it's not kundalini -- not even close. Kabbalah energy configurations are also different. Truth is, there are many simultaneous, different, competing ideas about subtle energies. What does this mean? It means these visions are cultural, relative, empty (in the Buddhist sense), unique. They are not "HOW IT IS". They are how it is for some people in some belief systems. There is nothing universal about them if you look at them honestly.

 

Even physical human anatomy is not universal. Some people have few more muscles than others, etc. People just don't pay attention to this. We all want to think that everything we know and see is objective and universally applicable. The only universal "thing" is the highest wisdom, which is very abstract and has no particular concrete representation at all.

 

 

You assume that what is written in the Suttas are facts. The Pali Canon was written 500 yrs. after the Buddhas death and these writings may not be accurate. As far as this so called assemblage point, I have never been to verify it existence and even if it is some point, there is much debate where it is located. If you have real knowledge of the assemblage point, by all means enlighten us.

 

ralis

[Vajrasattva]

This is how I see it too, no question at all.

 

But the title of the thread made me laugh, so that was nice, thanks for that.

 

Haha Glad you did that is why i typed it : )

[Jedi777]

Thanks guys : )

This guy is just silly.

 

I love how people (GIH) are willing to toot their horns but have zero actual experience. In person he would be singing a different toon.

 

Peace

 

Santiago

Hey Santi hes more than just silly hes kind of an asshat! and an ego baby

 

Hey Santi hes more than just silly hes kind of an asshat! and an ego baby

Just remember everything is energy dont waste it with this silly mental masturbation that Gold loves to promote

[Vajrasattva]

I don't find a problem with money and business. It's strange that I constantly have to remind everyone about me not finding problems with money and business.

 

What I have a problem with is mischaracterization. It's wrong to say that a business deal is unconditional or free giving. When you buy something in the store, you cannot say that what you have bought was freely given. It wasn't freely given. And it's OK that it was given conditionally. Just call it what it is.

 

There are people in the world who do give of themselves freely. It's not business at all. They put no conditions on knowledge and wisdom at all. Whatever you learn is fully yours 100%, unconditionally. These people should not be confused with tradesmen.

Exactly. There is a good reason why in many traditions you don't play with energy as a means for enlightenment.

 

According to tradition Buddha Gotama was completely enlightened and could perform miracles such as emitting water and fire from his chest, and yet he said not a single word about kundalini in any of the Suttas. There is not a single word about kundalini in any of the works on nagualism. There is assemblage point, which Hindus don't even know about. There are energy compartments. But it's not kundalini -- not even close. Kabbalah energy configurations are also different. Truth is, there are many simultaneous, different, competing ideas about subtle energies. What does this mean? It means these visions are cultural, relative, empty (in the Buddhist sense), unique. They are not "HOW IT IS". They are how it is for some people in some belief systems. There is nothing universal about them if you look at them honestly.

 

Even physical human anatomy is not universal. Some people have few more muscles than others, etc. People just don't pay attention to this. We all want to think that everything we know and see is objective and universally applicable. The only universal "thing" is the highest wisdom, which is very abstract and has no particular concrete representation at all.

 

GIH...Do you have a transmission from Buddha or his diciples? Do you understand that there is an

 

"OUTER, INNER & SECRET" tradition to everything the Buddha Taught and to everything the "buddhas" before him taught?

 

Sutra was for the "outer"

 

Although it may have "Secrets" in there.

 

For the most part it is to help those on the

 

"renunciate Path"

 

Then there is the "Tantric Path"

 

Then there is the

"Dzogchen" Path

 

And then there is the combination of all 3

 

Which is something to the effect Gurdjieff looked for in his "4th way"

 

Also keep in mind that for some reasons yes mention of Energy/Shakti/ Kundalini etc was taken out of some of the sutras and also purposely hidden....NOT MY FAULT . I not like you do not take or make CLAIMS that I did or that I AM GOD. Only GOD is GOD i am just a tiny drop of whatever HE/SHE wants me to be.

 

Why was that done?

 

Why was it that in the original texts "Buddha" was no mentioned but "SHIVA" was instead?

 

Here is my guess:

 

To keep the masses from having it? In some cases yes

 

But also to keep people from fucking themselves up.

 

You do not hand over a loaded shotgun to a child.

 

Energy work takes maturity other wise you end up

 

1) Screwed up

 

or 2) Something similar to a Sith Lord.

 

 

As for your methods.....

 

Show your FACE show your ability Help people with out your EGO but with your heart and do not hide behind posts.

 

The only thing you DO have is Meglomania & hidden issues in your Solar Plexus Chakra & Sex centers.

 

Peace

 

Santiago

[Sunya]

From your use of "I" it is obvious you still believe in a real self. Count how many times you use it. LOL!!

 

ralis

 

 

If in language instead of "I" we used "compounded experience, memories, and emotion, bodily perception, and consciousness changing every second" it would take a while to formulate a sentence wouldn't it? from one impermanent brain to another, i'm telling you what your problem is. don't get defensive, look into it. analyze it, see if its wrong or not. my credibility has nothing to do with whether or not its true or not

[thelerner]

Its taken me 20 years but I'm beginning to recognize how important it is to have regular lessons in dharma. That its as important as emptiness or yang practices. From whatever tradition they spring from. There are wisdom traditions that are in many ways common sense, but not commonly followed. Too easily forgotten in a rush to judge or egoic attempts to pull out the weiner first.

 

The lessons are easy, living it is hard, we fail at it all to often.

 

 

Michael

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Santi

 

Yes i got a kick out of the topic thread name too.

 

This kind of reminds me of a friend in Greece who once said "Sometimes the light we shine is stifled by the oil of our insecurities".

 

What he said means that where i may talk about attainments or confidence others may misteak it for a form of egotism...

 

As for money, many people learn very specialized skills, like medical chikung. Acupuncture is NO DIFFERENT, as energetic connections must be formed for the needle prescriptions to work. If you learn a skill and spend money learning it and time, there should be no question as to weather it is okay or not to charge money for it.

 

Acupressure may work for some people, but without the esoteric training methods that are taught at an acupuncture university, it is not as effectual as the real thing.

 

As for usage of the word "I" individuality is something we learn on the physical plane. Ego is something that always exists as long as we need food, water or sleep... any of our needs.

Edited March 14, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[ralis]

If in language instead of "I" we used "compounded experience, memories, and emotion, bodily perception, and consciousness changing every second" it would take a while to formulate a sentence wouldn't it? from one impermanent brain to another, i'm telling you what your problem is. don't get defensive, look into it. analyze it, see if its wrong or not. my credibility has nothing to do with whether or not its true or not

 

Just how do you know what my problem is? You don't even know me! What criteria are you using to make your assessment? In my previous post, I only gave a brief outline. Many details are purposely left out. Instead of proceeding from an incorrect conclusion, why not ask me questions.

 

 

ralis

[Hawk Over Water]

Santi - why bother feeding a hungry ghost? Anyone can see GIH is hungry - " yap, yap, yap, feed me, feed me, I need attention, i need to feel important"

 

[baloneyx]

" SANTIAGO DOBLES'S SECRET CLUB Where I take all your money & you Learn nothing."

omg straight from the horses mouth

ITS A JOKE! DONT KILL MEH!

 

Neither of you are gonna change each others mind, let it be. The truth is in the opinions of all Dobles students and the people who have taken his advice/help

[phore]

When a person acquires a family he must give up philosophical prestidigitation and idealism. The concepts he previously held take on a new level of depth and meaning. it is part of becoming a responsible adult.

The person can not choose the easy path of voluntary poverty, when there are children to feed.

This does not mean that the person must give up his heart. He must evolve.

 

Can one give freely, and take freely.

Can one breath in as well as out.

Is one diminished by the other.

Is the out breath morally superior to the in breath.

 

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited July 30, 2009 by mjjbecker

[NeutralWire]

So, please, can this issue be laid to rest?

 

I really hope so. I am another who thinks that Santiago had nothing to defend. I'm very surprised this has lasted so long, and can't quite see what is being accomplished here. NW

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I agree...

I know it is not customary with TaoBums, but I in my humble opinion believe this topic should be locked.

Edited March 14, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[h.uriahr]

The problem is not with the money, but with the conditions that are put on the information that's being taught. I explained this so many times that if you fail to see it by now, you are hopeless.

 

What I teach is given freely, truly freely. If you use information I teach to cut off my head, you can do that. I give you everything. All is the real deal. I don't hand out plastic knives. I give sharp katanas to everyone. You can cut your ear off if not careful, and you can cut my head off too. I ask that you don't, but if you want to, you can and I don't put any conditions on you. You are welcome to reprint anything I say. You can even modify what I say and reprint it in modified form. I only ask you don't attribute the modified form to me, but instead put your own name on your modified form.

 

I don't give 10%. Everything I say is 100% complete by the time you see the last period on the last sentence. I don't throw out some bait and wait for your bite for $$$.

 

I can honestly claim to give freely and sleep well at night.

 

Being an honest businessman is good, but you cannot go around claiming to give freely and nor can you accept credit or thanks for giving freely, when in fact you give conditionally.

 

I don't like how people share information and then soon after they spread "Fear Uncertainty and Doubt" with statements like "If you try to follow this book without a master, you can become insane and die." or "If you follow this book, all that results from it will be fake. To get the real deal, get the master to explain this book to you." And so on. It's just FUD -- Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt, that's being spread to keep the teachers marketable.

 

Now, I have nothing against business, but if you need to spread FUD to maintain the value of your business, then you don't run an honest business. You run a slave pen.

 

I get it now. I completely understand your point. This is a case of Penis Envy. You'll be ok though. They've come along way with Penile Enlargement.

 

Edit: Let me just say GIH, I'm just messing with you. Honestly, I mean no harm. Obviously we all arent going to get along.

 

 

 

I agree...

I know it is not customary with TaoBums, but I in my humble opinion believe this topic should be locked.

Oops...

Edited March 14, 2009 by h.uriahr

[Hawk Over Water]

I agree...

I know it is not customary with TaoBums, but I in my humble opinion believe this topic should be locked.

 

 

That sounds like an excellent idea.

[froggie]

to change something is to start with yourself.

[forestofsouls]

Uhh... Can I join this Club?

[Seth Ananda]

C'mon Gold, You cant say these teachings Santi is offering are not dangerous. I know it is popular lately in Kundalini Books to say that it isn't dangerous but a simple reading of the Kundalini posts here reveal a number of people who had really Bad experiences. I helped run a Kundalini support Group for years and I couldn't believe how many people turned up, who had Fucked themselves up using all this kind of stuff.

 

Its not popular to say some things are best at least a bit secret, as no one wants to miss out.

But untill you do something like Run a support group or advertise help, you just wont see how many burned people there are out there. And if you do I think you would quickly come to appreciate people like Santi who make this safe for others.

 

Seth.

[fiveelementtao]

These are some of my favorite quotes...

 

I have what is called the authority of a Lord

 

You get "stuff" from your own mind.

 

Should my heart turn away from you, you powerlessly stop moving, no more than an inanimate soulless thing. You acquire your soulful appearance from my heart and from nowhere else.

 

Because the wisdom I radiate precludes such phenomena from happening.

 

Instead let my words stand and fall on their own merit, regardless of my personal character. My words should be good enough, such that if someone found them scribbled on a bathroom stall, they'd be just as illuminating and holy as if they came from the lips of God himself.

 

I have a lot of experience, most likely more than any of you guys on this forum. By far.

 

What I have a problem with is mischaracterization.

 

What experience I had or didn't have is irrelevant. What matters is how my words affect you.

 

There is not a single word about kundalini in any of the works on nagualism. ( you mean Castaneda....) There is assemblage point (according to Castaneda), which Hindus don't even know about.

 

Just out of curiosity, GIH,

Do you smoke marijuana regularly?