SANTIAGO DOBLES'S SECRET CLUB Where I take all your money & you Learn nothing.

[CarsonZi]

Please excuse me if this sounds presuming, it isn't meant as such, this is an honest question with no hidden intent.....

 

What ever happened to the idea of Dana? Paying by donation based on what you feel you recieved. Every meditation/yoga class I have ever taught has been by dana. I prefer getting "paid" in this way as there is no one asking and therefore no obligation to give. The gift of money is given from the heart this way. I understand where Santiago is coming from, everyone has to make a living and if your job is healing/teaching/transmitting there is not a lot of opportunity to make the necessary cash to keep food on the table for the family. But that said I also believe there is great value in trusting God to provide. I stopped worrying about money a long time ago. At one point I realized that only when I stressed about money was I ever short on it. If I just forget that money even exists, God always seems to make sure my rent is paid, there is food on the table and my body is clothed. He often even manages to throw in some frills every once in a while. My point is basically to say, I understand where you are coming from Santiago (hope you don't mind if I use your name and not your moniker even though we have never spoken) in asking for payment for your teachings, but instead of charging a "set" price, wouldn't it be more effective to allow people to give from their hearts by dana instead? Just an honest question please don't shoot

 

Love,

Carson

[gendao]

But that said I also believe there is great value in trusting God to provide.

Isn't dana still just passing the buck though to wage workers who clock in regularly to paid gigs, though? I mean, it's not really coming out of thin air from "God."

 

Somewhere along the line, someone probably made that money working hard plying his trade around before he "donated" it to you "from God."

 

I know someone who basically uses "manifestation" as an excuse not to work a job. But, they essentially just end up bumming stuff from people who do and also living off an inheritance...from a deceased relative who made money the old-fashioned way. So, the money wasn't really "manifested" per se, just received from others - relying upon friendly favors and the kindness of strangers.

 

And these same jobless people who find it beneath themselves to "work at something they don't love doing," have NO problem accepting donations from people who are working out of personal responsibility, not sheer passion for their work.

 

Which ultimately is unbalanced and unsustainable macroeconomically. Because you get worker bees grinding to support themselves - and a few others who are "too good" to do the same work - but not too good to enjoy the fruits of such work by others... (Unless they have something really great to share back.)

 

Generally, I think people should do whatever it takes to at least support themselves first. If the whole world did that, we'd all be in much better shape. Freedom and the pursuit of happiness should always be balanced with responsibility. Then after that point, feel free to do (or not do) whatever the hell you want.

[CarsonZi]

Namaste Vortex....

Isn't dana still just passing the buck though to wage workers who clock in regularly to paid gigs, though? I mean, it's not really coming out of thin air from "God."

If you aren't asking, and someone is giving you can choose how to "see" this. From God or not, it is a choice.

And who said the teacher recieving dana doesn't work a "wage job" as well? I know I certainly do. I teach Yoga for other reasons other then to support myself. The money is a bonus from God as I see it. My choice though right? Anyone can see it any way they want to.

Somewhere along the line, someone probably made that money working hard plying his trade around before he "donated" it to you "from God."

Yes of course. And I am able to be in that place of imparting knowledge because there is enough money coming in to keep me physically alive. But does that really change anything I have said? Does it matter how the money was originally earned? Where did the person "working hard plying his trade" get paid? And the person that paid him etc etc? This doesn't change the fact that I am teaching others something valuable to me, and if they find value in it then they will donate to my survival. If they find nothing in the teachings then they should not give. And with faith in God, those who do not give because they did not recieve are balanced out by those that gave because they did receive. In this way all support comes from God as noone is making anyone do anything. All giving comes from the heart which is God.

I know someone who basically uses "manifestation" as an excuse not to work a job. But, they essentially just end up bumming stuff from people who do and also living off an inheritance...from a deceased relative who made money the old-fashioned way. So, the money wasn't really "manifested" per se, just received from others - relying upon friendly favors and the kindness of strangers.

Yes I can see why knowing someone like this could leave a bad taste in your mouth for freeloaders, but this is not what I am suggesting is the right course of action. We all have to take responsibility for ourselves, but we also need to be in a state of pure surrender at all times as well, as we truly have no control anyways. All control is illusion. I am not suggesting that Santiago should be as the friend you are describing, and I don't really think you think I was saying this either, so I'm not quite sure why you wrote this but regardless......Working for a living is necessary. Whatever God calls you to do for "work". If that means working a day job so you can afford to live while teaching Yoga for free like I am, then so be it. If that means teaching Yoga all day everyday by dana just to survive then so be it. One way is not "better" then the other. All I was suggesting was that it is important to trust God to provide and not to "force" people to pay for something when they do not feel they received what they are paying for. That is why I prefer to charge by dana.

And these same jobless people who find it beneath themselves to "work at something they don't love doing," have NO problem accepting donations from people who are working out of personal responsibility, not sheer passion for their work.

To each their own right?

Which ultimately is unbalanced and unsustainable macroeconomically.

The whole global macro-economy is unbalanced and unsustainable. It will collapse in on itself someday. We should really focus on learning to live without having to purchase goods to survive IMO.

Because you get worker bees grinding to support themselves - and a few others who are "too good" to do the same work - but not too good to enjoy the fruits of such work by others... (Unless they have something really great to share back.)

There will always be slothful and lazy people. To some this is a satisfying way of living. To others death would be much more preferable. Again to each their own.

Generally, I think people should do whatever it takes to at least support themselves first.

Agreed.

If the whole world did that, we'd all be in much better shape.

If the whole world did a lot of stuff we'd all be in much better shape. But to hope for that is to fight reality. What Is, IS, and that's all there is to it. Focus on yourself and living how you see fit.

Freedom and the pursuit of happiness should always be balanced with responsibility. Then after that point, feel free to do (or not do) whatever the hell you want.

If only life would listen to us the world would be a better place. Open your ears damn world! **wink wink**

 

Love,

Carson

Edited March 16, 2009 by CarsonZi

[goldisheavy]

Vajra, you are making me break my inner promise to abandon this thread with this interesting post of yours. I must kindly take issue with some statements you make.

 

We are truly ZERO and are animated in this play of illusions by the ONE. There is nothing more. So one must be Zero to allow the ONE to be with in you.

 

When you say "I am", what is moving your lips? Are you moving your lips or is God moving them? If it's you, then you have a will and intent separate from God's. If so, please explain how is this kind of separateness accomplished. If not, then it's God saying those things. Then it's not wrong for God to call himself "God", albeit unconventional. It's also not wrong for God to call himself Santiago, because you can't tell God what to say.

 

La Ilaha Illah-l-lah (There is no god but the one and true God)

 

So no matter how much ability or power or development or ENLIGHTENMENT one attains. PLease keep in mind it is attained cause.

 

1) God allowed you to

 

2) God gave you the grace & Blessings to learn what you learned in this life time.

 

3) Your power/Abilities/Attainments are God's they are not really yours you are ZERO.

 

You are contradicting yourself. If God is all that exists, then who is this "you" that doesn't own powers? Who is the object of giving? Who does God give grace and blessings to, if God is all that exists? Can you add 1 + 1?

 

EDIT: If you want to discuss God's nature, please make another thread, and let's allow this thread to go down into the halls of history.

Edited March 16, 2009 by goldisheavy

[goldisheavy]

It seems this is the crux of many of your opinions.

 

But it's just another ideology, no?

 

That's correct! Of course it is. However I think it's a good one. What do you think? If you find some flaw in it, please let me know so I can make it better.

 

IMO, a true embrace of Mystery includes an openness to the possibility that forms evolved precisely the way they have in order to create the potential for an incarnated consciousness evolving into and living as an expression of the Recognition of That.

 

This seems to imply that matter evolved consciousness. I can't agree with that at all. The reason I cannot agree with this, is that it's not logical. I recognize many competing ideologies but only if they are logical, congruent, cogent. I don't recognize illogical ideologies, because if I do, then you must recognize that my chair is controlling your brain. (Yea, I know it makes no sense, that's the point.)

 

But the inherent Emptiness of Form is absolutely not the same as "there is nothing universal about form".

 

Emptiness itself is universal, however the particulars of form are not universal. So you are correct. Emptiness is not nothing, so there is "something" universal about form. Form is a partial reflection of universal wisdom.

 

Discrepancies do not prove everything is relative, they are playful variations on a basic theme.

 

Doh! Relativity is all about playful variations. I don't see any contradiction there.

 

Clarity doesn't literally destroy the world. The manifestation of Form remains more or less consistent.

 

I don't know what you mean by "clarity". Awareness is ever-clear, and cannot be more clear. The same with attention too. For example, if you believe you have muddy awareness, that's pretty clear? The cognizance of muddiness is not obscured by anything. You don't think "maybe I am muddy or maybe I am not" do you? And even if you thought "maybe I am muddy and maybe I am not" you'd not confuse that with "I am definitely muddy", so there is still ever present clarity in your mind.

 

Clarity is not an attainment, it is a realization. There is a difference.

 

EDIT: These questions should go into a separate thread. How about we let this thread die?

Edited March 16, 2009 by goldisheavy

[gendao]

CZ - I agree. You are not relying upon the system, but yourself first and foremost.

 

Basically, I think people "should" put in at least as much as they take out of the system. If not, then they become a drain and others are forced to support them. Good for them, but very bad for the system and everyone else in it.

 

And that on a large scale, in a nutshell, is what ends up causing welfare states and our current economic collapse today. Again, people drawing more energy out of a system than they are putting in = depletion = debt = death.

 

It's no different than depleting all your qi faster than you can replenish it. And what our country has become today is the equivalent of jacking off 10X per day while doing no restorative qigong ever.

[CarsonZi]

Namaste Vortex.....

CZ - I agree. You are not relying upon the system, but yourself first and foremost.

I rely on God not on myself. I will still go to work everyday that I have a job, but that job can be taken from me in an instant if it is God's will and I am not attached to this job. If God see's fit to take this job away from me I trust that he will supply me with a new job. If not a job for money then a job for survival. If that means teaching meditation for dana only and trusting that God will provide should I not make enough cash then so be it. If I am meant to live as a homeless person for a while, living as a drain on the "economic system" then that is the way it is meant to be according to God's plan. Of course that doesn't mean I should wait for God to fly a "cooked pigeon into my mouth" as someone so eloquently said to me earlier on TTB forum, and I should take every opportunity to become employed as the opportunities arise, but if God has plans for me other then working a "wage job" then that is the way it is. I am no better nor any worse off then I am now. Nor is society.

Basically, I think people "should" put in at least as much as they take out of the system. If not, then they become a drain and others are forced to support them. Good for them, but very bad for the system and everyone else in it.

"Shoulda Coulda Woulda" right? Don't think about what "should" be, or what "could have been". What is IS. That's it. Anything else is fighting reality.

And that on a large scale, in a nutshell,is what ends up causing welfare states and our current economic collapse today. Again, people drawing more energy out of a system than they are putting in = depletion = debt = death.

I'm sorry but I respectively disagree 100% with you on this. The economic collapse is a completely seperate subject and I really don't want to get off topic more then we already are here, but people taking more out (money-wise) is NOT what is causing this collapse. The system is FLAWED. Has been since the beginning. Nothing short of a complete revamp is going correct this for long. And that's ALL I'm going to say on this. Please don't try to continue this arguement with me, I will not take the bait.

It's no different than depleting all your qi faster than you can replenish it. And what our country has become today is the equivalent of jacking off 10X per day while doing no restorative qigong ever.

Hahahaha....thanks for the laugh, I enjoyed that. I would agree with this statement if you are talking morally and spiritually. I don't see things from a strictly financial perspective so I can't really say that this is true in just that respect. Thanks for the stimulating conversation.

 

Love,

Carson

[gendao]

that doesn't mean I should wait for God to fly a "cooked pigeon into my mouth"

Why not, then? If you truly rely on God?

 

Shouldn't you just sit down at your table for dinner tonight and just wait for a meal to manifest there for you?

 

If not, then aren't you also relying upon yourself?

 

I didn't mean to take God out of the equation - but I think with co-creation you still have to walk along with "Him." Which does take effort and self-reliance on your part too.

 

 

 

I'll agree to disagree with you on the system, then. Although, from my physics perspective, I can actually find a theoretical way out of our mess. As opposed to Obama's hyperinflationary "quick fix." Since this equation holds tight for a closed system...if you opened or expanded it with the input of "free energy," then you could relieve the energy/monetary deficit. Which goes back to Tesla, Coral Castle and zero-point energy, etc... So we are talking about a real paradigm shift here though, not just more shell games.

Edited March 16, 2009 by vortex

[Prince...]

 

 

1) God allowed you to

 

2) God gave you the grace & Blessings to learn what you learned in this life time.

 

3) Your power/Abilities/Attainments are God's they are not really yours you are ZERO.

 

You can View God as : ALLAH/UNIVERSE/HU/AUM/TAO/SHIVASHAKTI/

 

 

I liked this Santi...also, did you know the Aramaic term for GOD is Alaha or Elaha, which translates to Allah "The Diety"... sorry just my bible nerdiness starting to come out.

 

Anyway, I see the beef is still going. I posted in the "don't thank people" thread a week ago, spent the weekend out of town at a seminary, and it's still going. *sheesh*

 

Don't know about Dobles' secret club, but I know Santi has a wife, home & kids in beautiful Miami...is an accomplished martial artist, and has progressed down the spiritual path that many of the folks on TB walk. If things work out, I'll be a starving student at Seminary and I hope to have the same success that Santi already has. I can't hate on that and anybody that can...well...they're just a hater plain and simple.

 

Oh yeah, Hey Mike, hadn't seen you post in awhile, but I haven't been on TB much lately!

 

Why not, then? If you truly rely on God?

 

Shouldn't you just sit down at your table for dinner tonight and just wait for a meal to manifest there for you?

 

If not, then aren't you also relying upon yourself?

 

Technically you should be able to sit and have enough faith that a meal will manifest itself...but I always say God helps those who help themselves. A few weeks ago when I was last in the pulpit, I told people to stop praying for God to cure their high blood pressure or weight problems and get with people in the church who lead healthy lifestyles and exercise with them.

 

It takes awhile before people have enough faith to materialize things using their Mind Vitality...haha, but I won't open that can of worms, cause I'm not anywhere near it either!

[TTT]

I am not going to read this whole tread. But I would like

to share my opinion because I have trained with him.

I think Santiago's attainments are real and he is definitely

very sincere, honest and helpfull!

 

I didn't know about God being in every (word) "Human" But it is indeed

interesting to know.

 

http://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/god...ly/67951/931664

 

The HU has been in use for thousands of years by many different cultures and religious groups as a means to have a greater conscious contact with the Light and Sound of God. It is by no means exclusive to Eckankar. Texts or practices of the ancient Egyptians, Gnostics, Greek mystery schools, Druids, Sufi, Hermetic, early Christian, Coptic and Africans have, or still use the HU.

 

According to the Oxford English Dictionary http://www.oed.com/

The word "God" can be plausibly derived from the Sanskrit word "HU"

 

"The word is HU, the universal name of God, which is in the language of every living thing. It is everywhere, in everything.

Edited March 16, 2009 by TTT

[CarsonZi]

Namaste Vortex....

Why not, then? If you truly rely on God?

Shouldn't you just sit down at your table for dinner tonight and just wait for a meal to manifest there for you?

If not, then aren't you also relying upon yourself?

I've heard it said that God helps those who help themselves. This how I live. I trust God to provide for me in whatever way he sees fit. If that means God calls me to sit down and waiting for a cooked pigeon to fly into my mouth, then I will do that. If that means God calls me to go to work scrubbing toilets for crusty bread then I will do that. It is all about hearing the voice of God clearly within.

I didn't mean to take God out of the equation - but I think with co-creation you still have to walk along with "Him." Which does take effort and self-reliance on your part too.

To Effort or not to Effort that is the question....**wink wink** Meaning who is it that makes an effort anyways?? Again, **wink wink**. Hope you catch my drift here.

I'll agree to disagree with you on the system, then. Although, from my physics perspective, I can actually find a theoretical way out of our mess. As opposed to Obama's hyperinflationary "quick fix." Since this equation holds tight for a closed system...if you opened or expanded it with the input of "free energy," then you could relieve the energy/monetary deficit. Which goes back to Tesla, Coral Castle and zero-point energy, etc... So we are talking about a real paradigm shift here though, not just more shell games.

Sorry duder...not going there as I said.

 

Love,

Carson

[Vajrasattva]

Vajra, you are making me break my inner promise to abandon this thread with this interesting post of yours. I must kindly take issue with some statements you make.

When you say "I am", what is moving your lips? Are you moving your lips or is God moving them? If it's you, then you have a will and intent separate from God's. If so, please explain how is this kind of separateness accomplished. If not, then it's God saying those things. Then it's not wrong for God to call himself "God", albeit unconventional. It's also not wrong for God to call himself Santiago, because you can't tell God what to say.

You are contradicting yourself. If God is all that exists, then who is this "you" that doesn't own powers? Who is the object of giving? Who does God give grace and blessings to, if God is all that exists? Can you add 1 + 1?

 

EDIT: If you want to discuss God's nature, please make another thread, and let's allow this thread to go down into the halls of history.

 

 

GIH....Who makes your heart beat?

 

You right here right now the person who uses the title "Gold is Heavy"?

 

If you can at will stop your HEART BEAT completely with out touch, Impact, Gun, Poison, deprivation of breath, Suicide, etc then I would say that YOU are TRULY GOD and have the authority to be praised as such and to call your self the ONE TRUE GOD. But you can not. You are just a drop of his Divine grace maybe even just a stain.

 

If you GIH right here right now can stop planets and galaxies & universes from existing and or can bring them back to manifestation and or CREATE new ones tangible that WE can see in the SKY then I would say that YOU are TRULY GOD and have the authority to be praised as such and to call your self the ONE TRUE GOD. But you can not. You are just a drop of his Divine grace maybe even just a stain.

 

So the only truth my brother is the following the EGO deceives you even in your "I AM GOD". GOD is you But YOU are not GOD. You will fade God will never fade. If he wills you to have power you will have it. If he wills you to be immortal you will achieve it. But again you are nothing with out DIVINE Grace.

 

Lailahailallah is the only TRUTH. It can be applied to ANY PATH Buddhist, Taoist, Christian, Hindu, It doesn't matter. All Paths and Knowledge is from GOD. The only truth is the ABSOLUTELY TRUTH. Everything else including yourself is RELATIVE TRUTH.

 

So its better to just humble up get rid of your EGO. Its ok to recognize your divinity but recognize also the ultimate truth (AL HAQQ) that is WAY beyond you and this manifestation and in fact is NEITHER INSIDE nor OUTSIDE of this Creation nor subject to it. You are still playing in what you think is a HUGE field which is nothing more than a small cube the size of a pin drop in God's Palm.

 

Lailahailallah

 

When you can do what ALLAH/TAO/SHIVA can do then you and I will have this conversation. But all you can do right now again is just be a stain of existance if that.

 

This is why its best to be ZERO and LET THE TRUE "ONE" fill you up. So you become when its permissible "THE ONE"

Peace & God Bless.

 

Santiago

Edited March 16, 2009 by Vajrasattva

[CarsonZi]

Namaste Vajrasattva....

 

I hope you will respond to a few of the questions directed at you from others besides GIH. If I may be so arrogant as to ask you to (re-)read post #76 in this thread, (it's a post from me) it has a question in it that I very much hope you will take the time to respond to. I understand if you don't have the time or don't feel the need, but personally I would love to know how you feel about teaching for dana. I think it is relevant to this thread. Thanks.

 

Love,

Carson

[gendao]

Technically you should be able to sit and have enough faith that a meal will manifest itself...but I always say God helps those who help themselves. A few weeks ago when I was last in the pulpit, I told people to stop praying for God to cure their high blood pressure or weight problems and get with people in the church who lead healthy lifestyles and exercise with them.

 

It takes awhile before people have enough faith to materialize things using their Mind Vitality...haha, but I won't open that can of worms, cause I'm not anywhere near it either!

Sure, but how many people have actually been able to manifest stuff consistently at will - in human history? Only a few...and it took each of them a LOTTT of time and effort to develop that ability.

 

So, until you reach that level, I think you may still have to do a lot of things manually...

 

Problem I've seen with a lot of jobless "manifesters" I know is that that when they come up short on funds, the money tends to "manifest" out of employed friends' and family's wallets. And again, although they are "too spiritual" to make money the hard way...they're not "too spiritual" to accept it from those who do.

 

This is like someone who won't bloody their hands killing animals themselves for food, but will gladly eat meat provided by a hunter who does the dirty work for them.

Edited March 16, 2009 by vortex

[Vajrasattva]

Please excuse me if this sounds presuming, it isn't meant as such, this is an honest question with no hidden intent.....

 

What ever happened to the idea of Dana? Paying by donation based on what you feel you recieved. Every meditation/yoga class I have ever taught has been by dana. I prefer getting "paid" in this way as there is no one asking and therefore no obligation to give. The gift of money is given from the heart this way. I understand where Santiago is coming from, everyone has to make a living and if your job is healing/teaching/transmitting there is not a lot of opportunity to make the necessary cash to keep food on the table for the family. But that said I also believe there is great value in trusting God to provide. I stopped worrying about money a long time ago. At one point I realized that only when I stressed about money was I ever short on it. If I just forget that money even exists, God always seems to make sure my rent is paid, there is food on the table and my body is clothed. He often even manages to throw in some frills every once in a while. My point is basically to say, I understand where you are coming from Santiago (hope you don't mind if I use your name and not your moniker even though we have never spoken) in asking for payment for your teachings, but instead of charging a "set" price, wouldn't it be more effective to allow people to give from their hearts by dana instead? Just an honest question please don't shoot

 

Love,

Carson

 

Hi Carson,

 

I do many things by donation and in some cases I do not ask for anything.

 

 

If I didn't have a mortgage, kids, wife etc then maybe things would be slightly different.

 

BUT in the case of KAP where i have to spend many hours a week teaching, helping students out, writing articles, editing video & Audio, uploading files etc. It is very TIME consuming for me & my family. What I charge as I have stated before is about $27 per person per week for 12 weeks.

 

And in all cases I let people pay installments if need be. And in some cases I let people pay simply when THEY can.

 

What are they paying me for?

 

My Time.

 

Also I believe if they pay for it in some way or another they will value it. Its an investment in themselves.

 

The will walk away with more tools and experience etc than when they came in.

 

Considering what I do and time spent I am actually undercharging.

 

But Its ok I do not mind. Again its not about the Money I actually do love to share.

 

 

: )

 

Peace

Santiago

[CarsonZi]

Namaste Vajrasattva and thank you for taking the time to respond to me....

Before I get into responding to what you have said, I just want to clarify that I am not trying to say you are doing anything wrong, immoral or anything other then what your heart tells you to do. I am not challenging you. I am merely trying to understand your perspective as I can see valid points from both sides. Please do not get offended I am not questioning your methods or motives. Just to be clear.

I do many things by donation and in some cases I do not ask for anything.

If I didn't have a mortgage, kids, wife etc then maybe things would be slightly different.

Ok.

BUT in the case of KAP where i have to spend many hours a week teaching, helping students out, writing articles, editing video & Audio, uploading files etc. It is very TIME consuming for me & my family. What I charge as I have stated before is about $27 per person per week for 12 weeks.

Of course. We all need to survive. And we all seem to have a need to feel like we are doing something worthwhile. I can understand this.

And in all cases I let people pay installments if need be. And in some cases I let people pay simply when THEY can.

Again I am not questioning the fact that you require money to pay the bills nor how you go about charging that money. My main question was why not charge by donation and trust God that all will be as it should? I know you have kids and a wife, I have a wife and dogs (no kids yet) and I am responsible for keeping a roof over their heads, and food in their mouths as well, but if God called you to become homeless it would happen regardless of how much money you make....I understand the rationale behind charging for your time, but do you not think it would be much more beneficial for everyone involved if you didn't ask for money and it (money/payment) was just freely given? Do you really think God would let you and your family go hungry if you did? Do you not think you would have a zillion times more business if you did? Just questions, I don't know any answers.

What are they paying me for?

My Time.

Knowledge and energy as well.

Also I believe if they pay for it in some way or another they will value it. Its an investment in themselves.

Really? Is something worked for ALWAYS valued more then something freely given? Not for me. I can fully appreciate both. I appreciate AYP so much because it is completely free not because I worked for it. I appreciate it because the practices changed my life. There really is no price tag that can be put on this. Yet I give (donate) back to AYP as much as I can afford. It isn't required, but the practices were freely given to me so I feel honored to give something back, even if it is "just" money. (I offer my time and services as well) I think Yogani benefits from this (the money and knowing that people give even though they don't have to because his teachings are making a difference in people's lives) as do I (I feel like I am giving something back even though I know it is minimal compared to what I have received). In this way Yogani's bills are all paid and all people have equal access to efficient spiritual practices for free.

The will walk away with more tools and experience etc than when they came in.

Considering what I do and time spent I am actually undercharging.

But Its ok I do not mind. Again its not about the Money I actually do love to share.

Of course. Never doubted this for a second.

 

Love,

Carson

[goldisheavy]

GIH....Who makes your heart beat?

 

You right here right now the person who uses the title "Gold is Heavy"?

 

If you can at will stop your HEART BEAT completely with out touch, Impact, Gun, Poison, deprivation of breath, Suicide, etc then I would say that YOU are TRULY GOD and have the authority to be praised as such and to call your self the ONE TRUE GOD. But you can not. You are just a drop of his Divine grace maybe even just a stain.

 

That's wrong buddy. Let me clue you in how this works.

 

Suppose you want to become strong one day, but right now you can only lift a 20lbs dumbbell, just barely. Should you consider yourself a weakling? You can. Many people do. It's what we are told to think. However, you'll be much more successful if right from the get-go you innerly assume an identity of a strong man. You'll have a lot more patience, confidence, poise, grace and natural wisdom spontaneously manifest right as you smoothly and gracefully progress along the curve of your strength development.

 

It is even more so with God than with any other identity, because certain intents are only possible from the point of view of God in the first place. So for example, if you assume you are not God, then right away your ability to stop your own heart has been curtailed by that very assumption. On the other hand, if you assume you are God, that's one less blocker right there. Even if you assume God's identity, you can still be prevented from stopping your own heart, but you won't be prevented by anything external! You may be still prevented by your own commitment.

 

If you see an oak sapling, it is correct to call it an oak, even if it doesn't give off a mighty shade. If you see a lion cub, it is correct to call it a lion, even if it still hasn't weaned itself off its mother's tit.

 

Second, you commit a grave error. You imbue God with a false kind of invincibility and a false kind of perfection. You assume a God either could not or would not manifest as an ailing person or as a person of limited abilities and intelligence. That kind of error will indeed prevent you from seeing God's face. God is truly limitless and is not obliged to manifest omnipotence as your own preconceived understanding of invulnerability. Vulnerability is part of omnipotence. Fallibility is part of omniscience.

 

If you GIH right here right now can stop planets and galaxies & universes from existing and or can bring them back to manifestation and or CREATE new ones tangible that WE can see in the SKY then I would say that YOU are TRULY GOD and have the authority to be praised as such and to call your self the ONE TRUE GOD. But you can not. You are just a drop of his Divine grace maybe even just a stain.

 

Alas, if I do that, you won't be there to witness it. Only I can see the result of this kind of action. But don't be too quick to say I cannot do it. Just shut your mouth if you don't know. Enjoy.

Edited March 16, 2009 by goldisheavy

[thelerner]

My conception is that we are of God, but we are not God. He's bigger and better looking. Much much bigger. The drop is made of the same stuff as ocean, but it is not the same thing.

 

Monotheism can give us the wrong image. IMO its not one god out there, its one God Everywhere, within and without. Again, we're not God, but his being suffuses us (& confuses us:) )

 

 

Michael

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited August 26, 2009 by mjjbecker

[goldisheavy]

Vajra,

 

There is a beautiful story I read somewhere. It's too bad I can't find the original anymore. So I'll retell it to you from memory.

 

Once upon the time a Guru was sitting surrounded by his students. A new person walks in and says, "Dear Guru, I'd like to play a flute for you!" The Guru replies, "Please do!" So the new person plays the flute, and it sounds awful. The students all cringed as their ears were insulted by cacophony. At the end of performance, the Guru smiled and said, "Very good! This is truly excellent! I award you the title of MASTER FLUTIST!" All the students immediately became agitated and angry. They said, "What is the meaning of this? This was horrible! Guru, if you keep handing out titles like this, very soon they will become meaningless... That's crap. That's terrible... Arrrrgggg!!!" And there was much gnashing of teeth. The person who played the flute was exuberant though! He was ecstatic! He bowed and said, "Thank you!", and left.

 

Then he returned one year later, and asked to play the flute again. The Guru agreed again. This time everyone could hear the indisputable mastery of this same person.

 

That's a story for Vajra who is struggling to become a master flutist in his own right. Vajra, you are a master flutist! Enjoy.

Edited March 16, 2009 by goldisheavy

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited August 26, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Vajrasattva]

Namaste Vajrasattva and thank you for taking the time to respond to me....

Before I get into responding to what you have said, I just want to clarify that I am not trying to say you are doing anything wrong, immoral or anything other then what your heart tells you to do. I am not challenging you. I am merely trying to understand your perspective as I can see valid points from both sides. Please do not get offended I am not questioning your methods or motives. Just to be clear.

 

Ok.

 

Of course. We all need to survive. And we all seem to have a need to feel like we are doing something worthwhile. I can understand this.

 

Again I am not questioning the fact that you require money to pay the bills nor how you go about charging that money. My main question was why not charge by donation and trust God that all will be as it should? I know you have kids and a wife, I have a wife and dogs (no kids yet) and I am responsible for keeping a roof over their heads, and food in their mouths as well, but if God called you to become homeless it would happen regardless of how much money you make....I understand the rationale behind charging for your time, but do you not think it would be much more beneficial for everyone involved if you didn't ask for money and it (money/payment) was just freely given? Do you really think God would let you and your family go hungry if you did? Do you not think you would have a zillion times more business if you did? Just questions, I don't know any answers.

 

Knowledge and energy as well.

 

Really? Is something worked for ALWAYS valued more then something freely given? Not for me. I can fully appreciate both. I appreciate AYP so much because it is completely free not because I worked for it. I appreciate it because the practices changed my life. There really is no price tag that can be put on this. Yet I give (donate) back to AYP as much as I can afford. It isn't required, but the practices were freely given to me so I feel honored to give something back, even if it is "just" money. (I offer my time and services as well) I think Yogani benefits from this (the money and knowing that people give even though they don't have to because his teachings are making a difference in people's lives) as do I (I feel like I am giving something back even though I know it is minimal compared to what I have received). In this way Yogani's bills are all paid and all people have equal access to efficient spiritual practices for free.

 

Of course. Never doubted this for a second.

 

Love,

Carson

 

Carson, God always takes care of my family and I. This I can attest to this. Also I practice Tithing and giving back to my Creator by giving every time I receive money to help poor children. I do not need to receive donations I give them practice instead giving them.

 

Thanks for asking : ). I charge what my teacher was charging as he asked us to charge. There is no problem to exchange Money for Knowledge. Its all an exchange of Karma. Money is also an energy.

 

I have stated why I do what I do and it is the way it is. When you have Kids you will understand. And God will never punish you for working hard and taking care of your family nor for charging people fair for your services.

 

Also I stated before I am very FAIR in how i do things and Flexible.

 

I am Glad you Value AYP. If it works for you more power to you.

 

Peace

 

Santiago

[Vajrasattva]

don't be too quick to say I cannot do it. Just shut your mouth if you don't know. Enjoy.

 

 

You seriously must be smoking weed or dropping way to much LSD you are absolutely Delusional.

 

You GIH CAN NOT do anything i listed.

 

 

 

Peace

 

Santiago

 

GIH,

 

I bestow upon you the title of 'The Intellectual Masturbater'.

 

Yes, my wit is as funny as your story is profound.

 

However, like the main character in your story, you could come back in a year and still be, 'The Intellectual Masturbater'. In your case there will be no change that is music to the ears for the audience.

 

Now, don't leap in as usual and try at least think about this. Take some time and actually see if you can understand what I am saying.

 

I'm off now. There really are important things to do. Dialogue with you is a waste of time for now. You need to go away and temper your 'book learning' with some wisdom.

 

Hahaha

 

He may actually benefit from masturbating a bit more to get himself out of his Ivory tower.

 

Santi

 

 

 

 

 

I liked this Santi...also, did you know the Aramaic term for GOD is Alaha or Elaha, which translates to Allah "The Diety"... sorry just my bible nerdiness starting to come out.

 

 

 

 

This is VERY true : )

[goldisheavy]

GIH,

 

I bestow upon you the title of 'The Intellectual Masturbater'.

 

I am intellectual masturbator in the same sense that you're a scum sucking bottom feeder.

[orb]

You seriously must be smoking weed or dropping way to much LSD you are absolutely Delusional.

 

You GIH CAN NOT do anything i listed.

Peace

 

Santiago

 

 

 

Santi why r u so worried about this guy. You should thank him. I consider you a Sufi so think like a Sufi

He made you a huge favor by keeping this thread on top of the list for so long - he totally made your publicity and you got to see that the vast majority of the taobums support you and benefit from your teachings.

 

 

Cheers Mate