SANTIAGO DOBLES'S SECRET CLUB Where I take all your money & you Learn nothing.

[goldisheavy]

You seriously must be smoking weed or dropping way to much LSD you are absolutely Delusional.

 

You GIH CAN NOT do anything i listed.

Peace

 

Hahaha

 

He may actually benefit from masturbating a bit more to get himself out of his Ivory tower.

 

Santi

This is VERY true : )

 

Vajra,

 

Enjoying yourself, eh, golden-palmed Guru Santi?

 

Look -- I have tried to empower you numerous times, but each time you respond by trying to disempowering me. Do you understand why you cannot accept empowerment? It's cause your heart is the size of a baby pea.

 

So I will tell you one more story, arrogant though you are.

 

Suppose you have an acorn. And suppose you can't be sure it's acorn, but you've wished for all your life to grow a mighty big oak, and you want nothing in your life more than to see a mighty oak grow. And you have this unknown seed. Should you assume it's an acorn or should you assume it's just some algae gamete? If you assume it's algae gamete, you'll either abandon the acorn or at best throw it in water, which would be proper for an algae gamete. The only thing that makes sense to do, if growing an oak is the only wish you have, is to assume what you have there is an acorn. So right from the beginning you have to treat it as an oak. Plant it in soil, like you would an oak seed. Water it like you would an oak. Treat it in every way as an oak, and if you are right, it will grow up as an oak. If you are wrong, nothing will happen, but it's no loss if seeing an oak is all you ever wanted in life.

 

When the oak is young, it's just a sapling. Protect its identity as an oak. When it grows up, it will protect you in turn. If you try to test the sapling the same way you would a might oak, you will break it and kill it. It won't grow up and it won't have a chance to protect you later on. So even before the oak is mighty, protect it and know it as mighty, even as it is vulnerable. Later it will protect you.

 

Just so, if seeing God's face is all you want in life, you must assume you are God. Even a seed of God is God.

Edited March 17, 2009 by goldisheavy

[goldisheavy]

Santi why r u so worried about this guy. You should thank him. I consider you a Sufi so think like a Sufi

He made you a huge favor by keeping this thread on top of the list for so long - he totally made your publicity and you got to see that the vast majority of the taobums support you and benefit from your teachings.

Cheers Mate

 

The answer is simple. He wants my love. It's not good enough that some tao bums love him. He wants my love too.

[onikalk]

goldisheavy,

 

If you're not planning to write a book, how about putting a video or audio on YouTube lecturing on the principles you have learned/developed. Teach us in baby steps so that all you have to do is just make a 5 minute or so lecture. That way, it won't take a lot of time, such as making a book or developing a website.

[Jedi777]

Vajra,

 

Enjoying yourself, eh, golden-palmed Guru Santi?

 

Look -- I have tried to empower you numerous times, but each time you respond by trying to disempowering me. Do you understand why you cannot accept empowerment? It's cause your heart is the size of a baby pea.

 

So I will tell you one more story, arrogant though you are.

 

Suppose you have an acorn. And suppose you can't be sure it's acorn, but you've wished for all your life to grow a mighty big oak, and you want nothing in your life more than to see a mighty oak grow. And you have this unknown seed. Should you assume it's an acorn or should you assume it's just some algae gamete? If you assume it's algae gamete, you'll either abandon the acorn or at best throw it in water, which would be proper for an algae gamete. The only thing that makes sense to do, if growing an oak is the only wish you have, is to assume what you have there is an acorn. So right from the beginning you have to treat it as an oak. Plant it in soil, like you would an oak seed. Water it like you would an oak. Treat it in every way as an oak, and if you are right, it will grow up as an oak. If you are wrong, nothing will happen, but it's no loss if seeing an oak is all you ever wanted in life.

 

When the oak is young, it's just a sapling. Protect its identity as an oak. When it grows up, it will protect you in turn. If you try to test the sapling the same way you would a might oak, you will break it and kill it. It won't grow up and it won't have a chance to protect you later on. So even before the oak is mighty, protect it and know it as mighty, even as it is vulnerable. Later it will protect you.

 

Just so, if seeing God's face is all you want in life, you must assume you are God. Even a seed of God is God.

GIH LOL you are so full of shit you should be called brown is heavy!!

[Prince...]

GIH LOL you are so full of shit you should be called brown is heavy!!

Brown is Stinky

 

goldisheavy,

 

If you're not planning to write a book, how about putting a video or audio on YouTube lecturing on the principles you have learned/developed. Teach us in baby steps so that all you have to do is just make a 5 minute or so lecture. That way, it won't take a lot of time, such as making a book or developing a website.

are you serious? this guy hasn't said anything that I care to read or care to learn. I did think it was funny when he called me out about the whole dogma thing. Hey playboy, I'm training to become a minister, that's what people pay me to do...but oh yeah, you expect people to teach for a living and not expect any payment...which is just...well...teaching for nothing.

[mat black]

Edited March 17, 2009 by mat black

[goldisheavy]

goldisheavy,

 

If you're not planning to write a book, how about putting a video or audio on YouTube lecturing on the principles you have learned/developed. Teach us in baby steps so that all you have to do is just make a 5 minute or so lecture. That way, it won't take a lot of time, such as making a book or developing a website.

 

Listen, we don't have time for this. I give you all my secrets right now: at the root of your being, you are omniscient. You have the inner wisdom, intuition, patience, sensitivity and all the qualities necessary to manifest anything you want. Just pay attention. And if something seems to be stuck or wrong, contemplate it.

 

The secret is to stop externalizing authority and authenticity. Your experience is authentic. Your knowledge is authoritative. You can internalize this without harm. In the beginning you might think it makes you better than everything else. That's OK. You will grow beyond that stage if you continue your contemplation. Be mindful of the opinions of others, and do consider them -- but don't allow any opinion to topple who you are deep within. You are LORD. No matter what kind of tsunami your experience seems to resemble, even if the moon is burning and the Sun has gone dark, and if the Earth has split in half, and your body is turning inside out -- you are beyond all such appearances, and they only have power over you if you yourself empower them.

 

It is you who gives power and meaning to appearances. And it is you who takes it away, O LORD. I bow one thousand times before your lotus feet. You too won't be wrong if you bow before yourself. Even as you may feel vulnerable. Even though you may see yourself lacking. You've always been beautiful and you have never lacked even one thing. All secrets are born and die in your heart and nowhere else.

[CarsonZi]

Namaste Vajrasattva....

 

God always takes care of my family and I.

 

Of course he does. My point was that he still would even if you didn't charge a "set" price for your services. Nothing would change.

 

Also I practice Tithing and giving back to my Creator by giving every time I receive money to help poor children. I do not need to receive donations I give them practice instead giving them.

 

Always good to give when you receive. Otherwise it is just taking.

 

Thanks for asking : ).

 

Do you really mean that? I kinda sense a bit of hostility from you for asking. Hope I am mistaken.

 

I charge what my teacher was charging as he asked us to charge.

 

Sounds reasonable I guess.

 

There is no problem to exchange Money for Knowledge.

 

Well, for some people there is....Especially if you are really poor or don't strive for monetary wealth and therefore have none.

 

Its all an exchange of Karma. Money is also an energy.

 

I understand, but there are other modes of currency that are just as valuable as cash. (IMO)

 

I have stated why I do what I do and it is the way it is.

 

Yes you have and it certainly is.

 

When you have Kids you will understand.

 

Shouldn't say that man...you really have no idea what I understand and don't understand...or what I will or wont understand in the future. You don't know if I have had children in the past and they have died, you don't know if I have had children and given them up for adoption, or if I have never had a child. All I said was that I don't have children of my own (yet). Doesn't mean I don't understand the responsibility necessary to be a father. You don't know where I have been or what my past entails so you really shouldn't judge like that.

 

And God will never punish you for working hard and taking care of your family nor for charging people fair for your services.

 

Never is a long time, and I would be careful about pigeon-holing God. God will do what he wants and sees fit. If putting me through a difficult time is necessary, I can view it as a punishment or I can view it as a lesson. It's all in the perspective. And what is fair for one person may not be fair for another. (homeless man versus a corporate bigwig.....should the homeless man have to pay the same as the CEO?)

 

Also I stated before I am very FAIR in how i do things and Flexible.

 

I'm sorry but did I say you weren't somewhere? I definitely wasn't TRYING to imply that!

 

I am Glad you Value AYP. If it works for you more power to you.

 

It works for me right now. Saved my life actually. But to each their own. Not trying to convert anyone.

 

Love,

Carson:D

 

P.S. Sorry but I am not sure why the quotes aren't working.

Edited March 17, 2009 by CarsonZi

[gendao]

goldisheavy,

 

If you're not planning to write a book, how about putting a video or audio on YouTube lecturing on the principles you have learned/developed. Teach us in baby steps so that all you have to do is just make a 5 minute or so lecture. That way, it won't take a lot of time, such as making a book or developing a website.

I agree, if you can do better for cheaper - by all means show it!

 

Otherwise, backseat drivers are a dime a dozen who when asked to show what THEY can do...suddenly find every excuse under the sun why they can't show anything.

 

 

I think going back to my physics POV, the BOTTOMLINE is not whether you charge or not...but what your NET DELTA is. Are you putting into society at least what you take out? Putting in even more, or less? The key here is the net +/- change, not whether you charge at all.

 

For example, if it cost me $50 to build a shelf and I sold it to you for $40, I actually "gave" you $10, not "took" $40 from you.

 

I think with Santi, most people here would agree that even though he charges, he actually ends up putting far more into the grid than he takes out. He's a net generator. So in essence, he is still a positive addition to this world - and we are all better off with him here.

 

I know GIH's initial point was different than this, but just wanted to try to shed some more light on this whole generic issue. Because it's one that has surfaced a number of times.

[goldisheavy]

I think with Santi, most people here would agree that even though he charges, he actually ends up putting far more into the grid than he takes out. He's a net generator. So in essence, he is still a positive addition to this world - and we are all better off with him here.

 

I agree completely. I think Santi is a good person. That's why my point was purposefully pedantic at the beginning. I wasn't saying that Santi was useless. I wasn't saying Santi was an unfair businessman or that he cheated his customers.

 

I've been on Tao Bums for a little while and based on my attendance here I don't think Vajra really participated all that much. Nor do I think he shared anything all that profound. I would characterize his participation as nice, friendly and supportive of the general atmosphere. However, I don't see it as saintly and nor do I see it as an unmitigated outpouring of bliss or anything like that! So when someone was praising Vajra like he was God's gift to men, when that's not what I saw, I took exception to that. It's not a big deal in my opinion. Shortly thereafter I realized that what must have happened to get such public outburst of admiration must have been private interactions between Vajra and the guy that was adoring Vajra. So I made a note to that effect -- saying that it's best to render thanks in private for what was done in private. Again, not a big deal.

 

But for some reason Vajra really didn't like that. So he exploded all over this forum with his wild outbursts.

 

But, let's get some perspective again. Let's step back. I still think Vajra is a good guy <tm>, and I think he's fair and I do think he cares about what he does. I think he's insecure and I also think he has some serious obscurations that he could work on right now, had he more humility.

 

A real Guru should be able to take an initiation from the dumbest person, while teaching others as a Guru.

 

There is a story about that. One time Patrul Rinpoche met a student whom he initiated into Dzogchen. The student didn't recognize Patrul, because Patrul looked like an ordinary vagabond. So they got to talking and Patrul asked if this guy (his student) knew anything of Dzogchen. The guy said "Yes, would you like me to instruct you?" And Patrul said, "Yes, sure." So this guy initiated Patrul Rinpoche into his own teaching. That's what lila is all about. There are no limits. But it takes big big heart to realize that.

 

GIH LOL you are so full of shit you should be called brown is heavy!!

 

My best friend has a saying. It goes like this, "Everything in the world is shit. Except for piss that is!"

[gendao]

I agree completely. I think Santi is a good person. That's why my point was purposefully pedantic at the beginning. I wasn't saying that Santi was useless. I wasn't saying Santi was an unfair businessman or that he cheated his customers.

 

I've been on Tao Bums for a little while and based on my attendance here I don't think Vajra really participated all that much. Nor do I think he shared anything all that profound. I would characterize his participation as nice, friendly and supportive of the general atmosphere. However, I don't see it as saintly and nor do I see it as an unmitigated outpouring of bliss or anything like that! So when someone was praising Vajra like he was God's gift to men, when that's not what I saw, I took exception to that. It's not a big deal in my opinion. Shortly thereafter I realized that what must have happened to get such public outburst of admiration must have been private interactions between Vajra and the guy that was adoring Vajra. So I made a note to that effect -- saying that it's best to render thanks in private for what was done in private. Again, not a big deal.

Right, well your "complaint" actually fits into my physics/electrical analogy.

 

You don't think he's undeserving of any praise, just felt he got some undue praise.

 

IOW, you felt like he received more out of the grid than he had put in. Now, we can all argue over that, but that's beside my theoretical point here..

 

Unfortunately, the knee-jerk human reaction is too polarized to recognize such subtle discrete graduations - and instead quickly becomes a "for" or "against" duality with nothing in between.

 

But with my "electrical grid" analogy, you can take some of the emotion out and mechanically analyze each operation with greater precision. Then it simply becomes a matter of balancing the books between what anyone gives and takes off our grid. It doesn't matter if they charge or "whether praise is public or private." The bottomline becomes simply subtracting what they took out from what they put in and seeing what the net result is.

 

Or that's my 2 cents I'm putting in. You all can feel free to disagree.

[Creation]

I've been on Tao Bums for a little while and based on my attendance here I don't think Vajra really participated all that much. Nor do I think he shared anything all that profound. I would characterize his participation as nice, friendly and supportive of the general atmosphere. However, I don't see it as saintly and nor do I see it as an unmitigated outpouring of bliss or anything like that! So when someone was praising Vajra like he was God's gift to men, when that's not what I saw, I took exception to that. It's not a big deal in my opinion. Shortly thereafter I realized that what must have happened to get such public outburst of admiration must have been private interactions between Vajra and the guy that was adoring Vajra. So I made a note to that effect -- saying that it's best to render thanks in private for what was done in private. Again, not a big deal.

You know, right before I posted the post with the paragraph in question I thought "maybe this is too gushy." After all, I was in a really good mood, and when I am in a good mood I get gushy. But I had seen some gushiness around here before so I didn't think it was a big deal. Moreover, note that the gushy paragraph was just a part of a larger post and not the main point, and that a very small percentage of my posts have received replies, so I had the impression that people don't pay much attention to my posts anyway. But the post in question sparked what appears to me to be the most furious collection of posts not related to Kunlun or Mak Tin Si in quite some time!

 

How 'bout them apples?

 

Pondering this, the following quote from The Fellowship of the Ring came to my mind:

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to."

 

Peace to all of you.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Creation

[Vajrasattva]

My conception is that we are of God, but we are not God. He's bigger and better looking. Much much bigger. The drop is made of the same stuff as ocean, but it is not the same thing.

 

Monotheism can give us the wrong image. IMO its not one god out there, its one God Everywhere, within and without. Again, we're not God, but his being suffuses us (& confuses us:) )

Michael

 

 

 

I am intellectual masturbator in the same sense that you're a scum sucking bottom feeder.

 

 

The enlightened has spoken : )

 

Vajra,

 

Enjoying yourself, eh, golden-palmed Guru Santi?

 

Look -- I have tried to empower you numerous times, but each time you respond by trying to disempowering me. Do you understand why you cannot accept empowerment? It's cause your heart is the size of a baby pea.

Just so, if seeing God's face is all you want in life, you must assume you are God. Even a seed of God is God.

 

Oh wait I am hearing the Voice of God here.....

 

The answer is simple. He wants my love. It's not good enough that some tao bums love him. He wants my love too.

 

 

You are seriously delusional but I smile in your general direction.

 

I do not want anything man I am happy with what I have.

[Vajrasattva]

Namaste Vajrasattva....

Of course he does. My point was that he still would even if you didn't charge a "set" price for your services. Nothing would change.

Always good to give when you receive. Otherwise it is just taking.

Do you really mean that? I kinda sense a bit of hostility from you for asking. Hope I am mistaken.

Sounds reasonable I guess.

Well, for some people there is....Especially if you are really poor or don't strive for monetary wealth and therefore have none.

I understand, but there are other modes of currency that are just as valuable as cash. (IMO)

Yes you have and it certainly is.

Shouldn't say that man...you really have no idea what I understand and don't understand...or what I will or wont understand in the future. You don't know if I have had children in the past and they have died, you don't know if I have had children and given them up for adoption, or if I have never had a child. All I said was that I don't have children of my own (yet). Doesn't mean I don't understand the responsibility necessary to be a father. You don't know where I have been or what my past entails so you really shouldn't judge like that.

Never is a long time, and I would be careful about pigeon-holing God. God will do what he wants and sees fit. If putting me through a difficult time is necessary, I can view it as a punishment or I can view it as a lesson. It's all in the perspective. And what is fair for one person may not be fair for another. (homeless man versus a corporate bigwig.....should the homeless man have to pay the same as the CEO?)

I'm sorry but did I say you weren't somewhere? I definitely wasn't TRYING to imply that!

It works for me right now. Saved my life actually. But to each their own. Not trying to convert anyone.

 

Love,

Carson:D

 

P.S. Sorry but I am not sure why the quotes aren't working.

 

You are mistaken no hostility.

 

If you lost a child I am truly sorry, If you haven't well again life will change for you if you have kids one day.

 

Now back to the $. You and I do not know each other. Had you contacted me and gave me a legit reason as to why you couldn't pay I would work with you in some way or another.

 

I am fair. Always have been always will be. But I will not tolerate being burned. I have been in the past so have my teachers been burned. I have also GIVEN people the courses for free and guess what some did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WITH IT. THE SIMPLY DID NOT VALUE IT. Sad but true.

 

I learned that lesson from all my teachers. I too asked them...Why do you charge?

 

So they will value it & the basic costs of expenses can be covered.

 

In the OLD DAYS it was like this

 

a) give your 1st born child to learn or donate a daughter.

donate land or a house to make into ashram or temple or lodge

c) give food or supplies or animals (horses etc)

d) give money to set you up for life so you could teach and establish a temple or monestary.

 

so asking $27 per week is really minor when you look at it. : ) Not a lot but enough to be fair to me and my family.

It just is what it is.

 

AND NO DO NOT try to send me your children or goats : )

 

 

By the way send me your email please through PM

 

thanks

 

Santiago

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited August 26, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Vajrasattva]

 

Don't know about Dobles' secret club, but I know Santi has a wife, home & kids in beautiful Miami...is an accomplished martial artist, and has progressed down the spiritual path that many of the folks on TB walk. If things work out, I'll be a starving student at Seminary and I hope to have the same success that Santi already has. I can't hate on that and anybody that can...well...they're just a hater plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

thanks mate : )

 

Santi has a wife

 

more like

 

Santi practices WIFE SILAT with Viking/Cherokee/Haitian WAR GODDESS named "ING".

 

 

Santi why r u so worried about this guy. You should thank him. I consider you a Sufi so think like a Sufi

He made you a huge favor by keeping this thread on top of the list for so long - he totally made your publicity and you got to see that the vast majority of the taobums support you and benefit from your teachings.

Cheers Mate

 

i am not worried at all mate : ) I am just having fun. i agree : )

[Vajrasattva]

Yes, but I am not a spineless coward who hides behind an internet identity.

 

 

well you know how that goes Mike its easier to be the internet CYBER "Ghengis Khan/UFC champ & authority on enlightenment & also God " than to have any real experience, skills, real results & real attributes that helps many and at the same time a normal Human.

 

By the way GIH.....

 

My "TITLE" of GURU was given to me after I earned it from my years of training in Pencak Silat from some of the most respected Gurus in Silat. it simple means Teacher nothing more and nothing else. I NEVER tell people to call me GURU. MY students can tell you I tell them I am simply their brother. Only REAL GURU is GOD.

 

 

peace

 

Santiago

[contrivedname!]

I figured "contrivedname" was "goldisheavy" too. Never heard of it being called a sockpuppet though. Do people do that alot?

 

Santiago..... YOU RULE!

 

i think people do darin, and i think it is kind of deceitful in a way, which is why i got so defensive so quick. i can totally see how folks would think that though, in retrospect. and hey i guess i could take it as a compliment, seeing as i like gih's posts, though i'd prefer to only take credit for what i write not someone else

 

thanks for your answer santiago i agree when you say "both with in and with out". i would still enjoy discussing the nyingma tradition too, but i guess that could be a separate thread, i really like chogyam trungpa's works, but have only read them since he died when i was very young

[contrivedname!]

 

...to fly a "cooked pigeon into my mouth" as someone so eloquently said to me earlier on TTB forum...

 

i remember that post and i thought it was an excellent use of zhuangzi's story about "you see a crossbow pellet and expect a roast dove" or some such thing to that effect

[contrivedname!]

 

Don't know about Dobles' secret club, but I know Santi has a wife, home & kids in beautiful Miami...is an accomplished martial artist, and has progressed down the spiritual path that many of the folks on TB walk. If things work out, I'll be a starving student at Seminary and I hope to have the same success that Santi already has. I can't hate on that and anybody that can...well...they're just a hater plain and simple.

 

you probably know more about the bible than i, but i feel this is worth the regurgitation

 

"judge not the ye be not judged for with what judgement ye judge you shall be judged"

 

and following that line of thought: you are being far too judgemental of gih (if that is who you are implying is "hating" on santi) gih has stated that he treats santi as he would his brother ie he doesnt hold shit back from a pretense of propriety. so if you have a brother doing things that annoy you would you just sit back from a sense of propriety and not pipe up?

 

i am not trying to attack you or hate you with this but i believe this quote also bears repeating:

 

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4: Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5: Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

 

good reminders from jesus christo

[seadog]

[Stigweard]

[contrivedname!]

[seadog]

[Ian]

Listen, we don't have time for this. I give you all my secrets right now: at the root of your being, you are omniscient. You have the inner wisdom, intuition, patience, sensitivity and all the qualities necessary to manifest anything you want. Just pay attention. And if something seems to be stuck or wrong, contemplate it.

 

The secret is to stop externalizing authority and authenticity. Your experience is authentic. Your knowledge is authoritative. You can internalize this without harm. In the beginning you might think it makes you better than everything else. That's OK. You will grow beyond that stage if you continue your contemplation. Be mindful of the opinions of others, and do consider them -- but don't allow any opinion to topple who you are deep within. You are LORD. No matter what kind of tsunami your experience seems to resemble, even if the moon is burning and the Sun has gone dark, and if the Earth has split in half, and your body is turning inside out -- you are beyond all such appearances, and they only have power over you if you yourself empower them.

 

It is you who gives power and meaning to appearances. And it is you who takes it away, O LORD. I bow one thousand times before your lotus feet. You too won't be wrong if you bow before yourself. Even as you may feel vulnerable. Even though you may see yourself lacking. You've always been beautiful and you have never lacked even one thing. All secrets are born and die in your heart and nowhere else.

 

Is there not a medium to large sized irony here?

 

Like people need no outside authority, but have to be told this? By, wait for it, an outside authority?

 

If they really don't need an outside authority, then surely they can be left alone to realise this?

 

OR.....is it not feasible that all the "unnecessary" teachers out there are working in their own sweet ways to help students get to the point where the students acknowledge and accept that they need no help....

 

For surely it seems that there are preconditions to accepting your truth, otherwise people wouldn't be ignoring it and arguing in the current fashion.

 

No?

 

 

 

 

(P.S. I know irony doesn't actually mean that, but it's an accepted usage, so what the hell...)