Chuang zi parable

[contrivedname!]

the parable i have in mind is this:

 

"A man with a passion for horses catches the shit in a basket and the piss in a jar. If a mosquito or a fly lands on the horse and he brushes it off too abruptly, then the horse will break its bit, hurt the man's head, and crack his ribs. Such a man has good intentions, but he overdoes it. Can you afford to be careless?" (gia-fu feng & english trans)

 

or

 

"The horse lover will use a fine box to catch the dung and a giant clam shell to catch the stale. But if a mosquito or a fly lights on the horse and he slaps it at the wrong time, then the horse will break the bit, hurt its head, and bang its chest. The horse lover tries to think of everything, but his affection leads him into error. Can you afford to be careless?" (burton watson translation)

 

like much of chuang tzu this parable is very applicable to everyday life and can be taken in many different directions. here is my understanding(s) of this parable:

 

this is an excellent example of the teacher/student relationship. when somebody is too passionate about humanity and they try to even catch the shit and piss of humanity in a nice little container though these things should be allowed to flow and fertilize the ground for the future. when the fly lands on the horse, who is to say that the fly isnt doing the horse a favor, perhaps she is helping the horse clean itself up by eating the traces of shit left behind (that wasnt caught in the basket ) or if a mosquito perhaps the horse is selflessly allowing it to continue to live by providing its form of sustinance... just because the fly (mosquito) annoys the horse trainer does that mean it annoys the horse? by forcing the horse to go against its nature (by brushing the fly off and making it shit and piss in containers) it then lashes out at the trainer (or hurts it self variably) and may not even know why. this is the danger of good intentions gone awry and unchecked. by letting a horse shit and piss freely and to allowing whatever alights on it mind (in this case the fly) to be as it is you allow the horse the opportunity to discover its true dao. lead by example; hence the saying "he who speaks doesnt know he who knows doesnt speak" and "first come those [teachers, leaders, etc.] of which the people are barley aware" and "when the work is done the people exclaim "we have done it ourselves!""

 

from the horses prespective it may love and cherish its trainer, but if the trainer is too overbearing and attempts to force the horse to follow his way instead of its own way the horse may break the bit (the teaching) and drift even further from what is in its own heart-mind, such as violently lashing out (or non violently), instead of learning what the bit is for (by shitting and pissing)

 

hence the saying "dont wish that things happen as you want them to happen, but wish that they happen as they do happen and you shall go on well"

 

thats one take on it any other takers?

 

chris

[goldisheavy]

I think that's a good warning. However, the trouble is that it's very, very hard to establish what is "too much" and what is "too little". Further, some horses are crazy, and might kill you even if you did nothing wrong. Other horses might be numb or just stubborn and may not touch you even if you whack them half to death. This makes it very hard to get your bearings.

 

It would be easy if we lived in an objective and easily measurable world. Then we'd know where the extremes were, and stick to the middle. At least I think so. But in reality it's all touch and go, trial and error, play by ear type of stuff.

 

Mistakes should not be prevented too much. If you are too extreme in being careful so that you don't commit a mistake, you might forget to breathe and live too. Some amount of mistakes are natural, in my opinion.

 

We're all going to die some day. The important question is -- have we lived?

[contrivedname!]

I think that's a good warning. However, the trouble is that it's very, very hard to establish what is "too much" and what is "too little". Further, some horses are crazy, and might kill you even if you did nothing wrong. Other horses might be numb or just stubborn and may not touch you even if you whack them half to death. This makes it very hard to get your bearings.

 

It would be easy if we lived in an objective and easily measurable world. Then we'd know where the extremes were, and stick to the middle. At least I think so. But in reality it's all touch and go, trial and error, play by ear type of stuff.

 

Mistakes should not be prevented too much. If you are too extreme in being careful so that you don't commit a mistake, you might forget to breathe and live too. Some amount of mistakes are natural, in my opinion.

 

We're all going to die some day. The important question is -- have we lived?

 

great points about how the horses may or may not behave gold.

 

agree about mistakes which is exactly what i was implying with all the piss and shit comments

 

though your last comment does stike me as a bit cliche, i find it to be true nonetheless

[Stigweard]

Another analogy in the same vein:

 

There are two reasons why the Hunter will starve to death ... either he loves his prey too much or he doesn't love it enough. When the Hunter loves his prey too much he will be unable to fufill the necessary killing act to sustain his own life. When the Hunter doesn't love his prey enough he may kill his prey indescriminately or without measure and deplete his source of sustainance.

 

[zanshin]

I think it applies more than just the student/teacher relationship, most close family and friend relationships. Especially resonates as a parent. Have you heard the term "helicopter parent"? In our society we hover over the kids and swoop in to rescue them at the first sign of trouble. It is hard to know which flies to swat and when and how hard. Too much fly swatting does indeed cause anger and resentment and bigger problems than the fly was in the first place. Then the piss and shit- well is that what it is the complaining whining and criticism we get from other people? So we hang onto it and save it up and put so much of our attention on that when we should have let it drop. I have my own precious collection of shit from my own parents, should probably try to let go of some of that and just enjoy the horse.

[goldisheavy]

though your last comment does stike me as a bit cliche, i find it to be true nonetheless

 

Heck, why even say "a bit". It is cliche. It's what came out when I was thinking about it. Cliches are part of my thinking patterns.

 

Another analogy in the same vein:

 

There are two reasons why the Hunter will starve to death ... either he loves his prey too much or he doesn't love it enough. When the Hunter loves his prey too much he will be unable to fufill the necessary killing act to sustain his own life. When the Hunter doesn't love his prey enough he may kill his prey indescriminately or without measure and deplete his source of sustainance.

 

I hope you don't mind if I remember this example for future use.

[doc benway]

Nice commentary on a great parable.

I see this as a parable for recognizing attachment and trying to live in accordance with wu wei.

 

I see that my lovely horse creates excrement so I save it in a jar. I really have no idea what it is but I am attached to the horse so I hoard it's excrement and consider it valuable. In actuality there is no value to the excrement and certainly no advantage to keeping it in a jar. I am simply interfering with the natural process of waste (as described earlier).

 

Similarly, in my misguided efforts to "help" my horse I swat it's flies and slap it, interfering with wu wei and causing the horse harm or anxiety through my misguided attempts at "helping." Allow the natural processes to carry on as they always do without your "help" is the message I get. I find Wu Wei to be a central theme in so many of his parables.

[contrivedname!]

great parable stigweard, i too may use it in the future

 

gih - you are correct, i should have omitted the "bit", i was prettying it up too much

 

zanshin - another great take on that parable

 

xuesheng - wu wei... right arm , you summed what i was saying in fewer words