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Tao Te Ching Translations

By Guest artform, in General Discussion

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Guest artform   

Guest artform
Posted

Hi All

 

My question is about the translations into English of the Tao Te Ching.

 

I have relied upon the 1990 translation by Victor H. Mair based on the then "recently discovered Ma-Wang-Tui manuscripts".

 

I am curious about any consensus on particular translations, other translation recommendations or translation/lineage links... and also personal perspectives.

 

Apologies if this has been covered before, although I have not seen anything over the last year of threads...

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and suggestions.

 

artform

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Stigweard   

Stigweard
Posted

Thanks very much Stig! I agree with Kate, and thanks Sean for pinning this.

 

My question is about the translations into English of the Tao Te Ching. I have relied upon the 1990 translation by Victor H. Mair based on the then "recently discovered Ma-Wang-Tui manuscripts".

 

I am curious about any consensus on particular translations or translation/lineage links... and also personal perspectives. Perhaps this should actually be in the general forum discussion threads?

 

thanks again

 

artform

 

Hiya Artform ... using our FAQ link ;) the Stanford Uni has a good outline of the Daodejing which does touch on your question. It also mentions Victor H. Mair.

 

<http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/laozi/#AppLao>

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Guest artform   

Guest artform
Posted

Hiya Artform ... using our FAQ link ;) the Stanford Uni has a good outline of the Daodejing which does touch on your question. It also mentions Victor H. Mair.

 

<http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/laozi/#AppLao>

 

Much appreciated Stig! Anyone with other ideas, resources, most welcome...

 

all the best on every path

 

artform

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Eric23   

Eric23
Posted

I picked up Sam Hamill's translation last year and have been enjoying it. The intent of this translation was to capture the poetic nature of the TTC. In my opinion he succeeded in delivering a straight forward, poetic translation.

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gossamer   

gossamer
Posted (edited)

I'd like to reply to the Tao Te Ching question.

 

We have probably around 40 translations of the TTC/DDJ.

 

Here's the skivvies.

 

Translators translate in one of two ways.

 

Word-per-word, or they "paraphrase".

 

The great word-per-word translators are: Red Pine, David Hinton, Jonathan Star, John C.H. Wu, Michael Lafargue, Philip J. Ivanhoe, and Robert G. Hendricks.

 

Sam Hamill and Arthur Waley, are both GREAT translators, but neither of them translated word-per-word.

 

Two more great translations are done by Hua-Ching Ni,who operates his own lineage and training centers.

 

And one more really great translation is by Liu Qixuan (it's called: 'The Way'). It's especially good for those with Christian backgrounds, as Qixuan juxtaposes the TTC against the Gospels.

 

My personal favorites are by David Hinton, and Red Pine, both of which are excellent!!

 

Peace, gossamer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I picked up Sam Hamill's translation last year and have been enjoying it. The intent of this translation was to capture the poetic nature of the TTC. In my opinion he succeeded in delivering a straight forward, poetic translation.

Edited by gossamer

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Guest artform   

Guest artform
Posted

Thanks gossamer.

 

I appreciate your overview. Stig, I also appreciate the overview in your link above.

 

I'd like to reply to the Tao Te Ching question.

 

We have probably around 40 translations of the TTC/DDJ.

 

Here's the skivvies.

 

Translators translate in one of two ways.

 

Word-per-word, or they "paraphrase".

 

The great word-per-word translators are: Red Pine, David Hinton, Jonathan Star, John C.H. Wu, Michael Lafargue, Philip J. Ivanhoe, and Robert G. Hendricks.

 

Sam Hamill and Arthur Waley, are both GREAT translators, but neither of them translated word-per-word.

 

Two more great translations are done by Hua-Ching Ni,who operates his own lineage and training centers.

 

And one more really great translation is by Liu Qixuan (it's called: 'The Way'). It's especially good for those with Christian backgrounds, as Qixuan juxtaposes the TTC against the Gospels.

 

My personal favorites are by David Hinton, and Red Pine, both of which are excellent!!

 

Peace, gossamer

 

 

Thanks too to Eric23, Todd and Wu-Liu for your specific suggestions.

 

all the best along the way

 

artform

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Guest artform   

Guest artform
Posted

This is a great site for TTC translations ... you are able to cross reference the original Chinese with Legge's, Susuki's, and Goddard's Translation.

 

Dao De Jing [Tao Te Ching]. J. Lau. YellowBridge.com. <http://www.yellowbridge.com/onlinelit/daodejing01.php>

 

Again, thank you very much for this additional great lead Stig.

 

artform

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lienshan   

lienshan
Posted (edited)

My question is about the translations into English of the Tao Te Ching.

 

I have relied upon the 1990 translation by Victor H. Mair based on the then "recently discovered Ma-Wang-Tui manuscripts".

 

I am curious about any consensus on particular translations, other translation recommendations or translation/lineage links... and also personal perspectives.

Try Nina Correa's Tao Te Ching translation forum: http://forum.daoisopen.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=5

 

It's second to none, if you are specifically interested in chinese-english Tao Te Ching translation details:

There is also a site with the Guodian bamboo slips: http://www.daoisopen.com/A11toA13Chapters25516.html

And too a site comparing all Tao Te Ching versions: http://www.daoisopen.com/Comparisons.html

 

You ask for "personal perspectives"? Here are some of mine related to the B version of Ma-Wang-Tui:

 

It's a unique Tao Te Ching version written in the years 201-199 BCE. Some of its phrases relate to the civil war 206-202 BCE and some details of the A version indicates, that the copyist of the A version knew the B version, and the A version is copied no later than 196 BCE according to its use of the taboo character bang. What makes the Ma-Wang-Tui B version unique is, that the lines are numerical structured mirroring from the middle of each chapter. E.g. If the first line consists of 8 characters, then the last line too consists of 8 characters. That's the reason why this version include a lot of "fill-characters", that are not included in the received version. Their function is to make the number of characters match the numerical line structure of each chapter.

 

The Ma-Wang-Tui Tao Te Ching B version is therefore in my opinion telling, how Tao Te Ching was interpreted in the Kingdom of Chansha in early Han-dynasty times. It's great constructed, but the content is not superior to the Received version and the Guodian version.

Edited by lienshan

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Guest artform   

Guest artform
Posted

Thanks Gossamer,and 2nd Stig for that rich site, which I have added to the bookmarks accumulating from first looks through the recommendations above.

 

Try Nina Correa's Tao Te Ching translation forum: http://forum.daoisopen.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=5

 

It's second to none, if you are specifically interested in chinese-english Tao Te Ching translation details:

There is also a site with the Guodian bamboo slips: http://www.daoisopen.com/A11toA13Chapters25516.html

And too a site comparing all Tao Te Ching versions: http://www.daoisopen.com/Comparisons.html

 

You ask for "personal perspectives"? Here are some of mine related to the B version of Ma-Wang-Tui:

 

It's a unique Tao Te Ching version written in the years 201-199 BCE. Some of its phrases relate to the civil war 206-202 BCE and some details of the A version indicates, that the copyist of the A version knew the B version, and the A version is copied no later than 196 BCE according to its use of the taboo character bang. What makes the Ma-Wang-Tui B version unique is, that the lines are numerical structured mirroring from the middle of each chapter. E.g. If the first line consists of 8 characters, then the last line too consists of 8 characters. That's the reason why this version include a lot of "fill-characters", that are not included in the received version. Their function is to make the number of characters match the numerical line structure of each chapter.

 

The Ma-Wang-Tui Tao Te Ching B version is therefore in my opinion telling, how Tao Te Ching was interpreted in the Kingdom of Chansha in early Han-dynasty times. It's great constructed, but the content is not superior to the Received version and the Guodian version.

 

Thank you lienshan, for your personal perspective on the Ma-Wang-Tui in particular, and the sites you have added to this growing resource collection.

 

all the best along the way

 

artform

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