The folly of self annihilation.

[ralis]

This is a favorite topic of Sufis and Buddhists. I am almost certain that self annihilation is impossible. All energy can neither be created or destroyed. The only changes are in form.

 

 

ralis

[contrivedname!]

this is a teaching of the daoists as well, hence avoid "fame and reputation"

[nac]

"Energy" is annihilation. (of matter and antimatter, for example)

 

PS. In Taoist terms, One splits apart into the Many, and the Many returns back to One. The state of the universe is that of incessant impermanence and co-dependence. Existence itself is the process of Annihilation as defined by Buddhism.

 

EDIT: Or rather, Emptiness. Buddhists try to avoid falling into the twin delusions of "Eternalism" and "Annihilationism".

Edited March 19, 2009 by nac

[goldisheavy]

This is a favorite topic of Sufis and Buddhists. I am almost certain that self annihilation is impossible. All energy can neither be created or destroyed. The only changes are in form.

ralis

 

Depending on what you believe yourself to be, that can be very true. Most people think they are the particulars of forms. They believe certain specifics make them who they are. A perception of those specifics can vanish in many ways. But is this annihilation? I don't think so. New specifics soon make an entry into the field of awareness. Nothing lasts. The experience of the unspecified is as temporal as the experience of specifics.

 

I think seeking annihilation is more true of Sufis than Buddhists though. Buddhists are a little more subtle in defining Nirvana than just "annihilation" or "annihilation in God" or anything like that. In fact, if you hang in the Buddhists circles, you'll hear "middle way between the extremes of nihilism and eternalism".

 

Nirvana is not defined in exactly the same way as fanaa.

 

The real purpose of renunciation-flavor teachings is not annihilation. It's to uproot the dominance of the specifics on the mind, so that you can see the big picture and see beyond what is obviously apparent.

Edited March 19, 2009 by goldisheavy

[SpiralTrance]

self anihilation is possible but it can only be experienced and not really grapsed intellectualy. in fact the more you ponder it intellectualy the more you stop it from happening.

 

i've experienced self-annihalation before in deep states of meditation where there's no difference between you and the world around you, everything unifies to one. to be honest self transcendance is probably a better term to use than slef annihaltion.

Edited March 19, 2009 by SpiralTrance

[nac]

self anihilation is possible but it can only be experienced and not really grapsed intellectualy. in fact the more you ponder it intellectualy the more you stop it from happening.

 

i've experienced self-annihalation before in deep states of meditation where there's no difference between you and the world around you, everything unifies to one. to be honest self transcendance is probably a better term to use than slef annihaltion.

Yeah. It's much harder to maintain that state of mind in everyday life, though.

[goldisheavy]

Yeah. It's much harder to maintain that state of mind in everyday life, though.

 

It's worse than that. It's not even harder. All experiences are dynamic. That means you cannot maintain the same flavor forever. While it's possible to undergo a period of perceived self-annihilation, there are two problems with it. First, during the experience of self-annihilation you still have your self-idea, but you cannot recognize the features of your self-idea within experience, and so perceive it as "self-annihilation". If you had no self-idea to begin with, you'd not feel anything was annihilated to begin with. Second, it doesn't last forever. You can't stay in any one place for too long, at least, as long as you have specifics in mind. And the state of self-annihilation is a pretty specific state.

Edited March 19, 2009 by goldisheavy

[nac]

It's worse than that. It's not even harder. All experiences are dynamic. That means you cannot maintain the same flavor forever. While it's possible to undergo a period of perceived self-annihilation, there are two problems with it. First, during the experience of self-annihilation you still have your self-idea, but you cannot recognize the features of your self-idea within experience, and so perceive it as "self-annihilation". If you had no self-idea to begin with, you'd not feel anything was annihilated to begin with. Second, it doesn't last forever. You can't stay in any one place for too long, at least, as long as you have specifics in mind. And the state of self-annihilation is a pretty specific state.

True. Some people try to nevertheless.

[Seth Ananda]

When the sugar cube dissolves in water, the sweetness remains

[goldisheavy]

When the sugar cube dissolves in water, the sweetness remains

 

And then the water evaporates and the sugar crystal is back. Oh, alas...

 

This is why suffering is escaped not by going into non-suffering, but by something more subtle. If suffering is a bad country that you leave on an airplane, then you just need a ride out and you don't need to understand why it hurts. But in reality suffering has to be understood. You cannot escape it, because it follows like a shadow until one understands why it happens.

[Seth Ananda]

Sufi's talk about the Baqa, the remaining after extinction, the existence after dissolution.

 

In the same way Shunya, the experience of the void, which represents an ending of the personality or false self is only the step before realisation of the Dharmakaya or Buddha nature, The Real Self.

 

Dont worry about Annihilation. The real you wont go anywhere

[doc benway]

Interesting discussion about annihilation of the self.

Of course to have a meaningful discussion of dissolution of the self, can we first define the self?

Next, can we determine who or what it is that is doing the annihilating?

[goldisheavy]

Interesting discussion about annihilation of the self.

Of course to have a meaningful discussion of dissolution of the self, can we first define the self?

Next, can we determine who or what it is that is doing the annihilating?

 

But if we do that, we'll soon see the entire topic has no meaning. It's best to avoid asking such question so we can continue our dream of alternating self-preservation and annihilation. (tongue in cheek).

[idiot_stimpy]

Some interesting posts.

[Everything]

Human Self-Annihilation is completely justifiable. In self-preservation, you keep your nerves intact. These nerves allow for the experience of pain. Sure, the pain is for a good purpose, but It is hard to imagine an experience without pain, in a living body, for people who solely focus on the desire to experience a void of pain. So they take their chances and suicide. No one has ever died and returned to say that the experience of the dead was either uncomfortable or painful. Even if it were, there's allways the chance that it is LESS painful. Jeez, who dafuq cares! I betya in the future there will be suicide artists and then they will refuse to rationalize their masterworks as it will imply an insult to their inexhaustable lust for creative expression

 

In terms of energy not being able to be destroyed or created, energy gives rise to creation and destruction. Thus you are merely saying that creation and destruction cannot be destroyed. It means absolutely jack shizzle, my friend! Especially if you're dead. That very concept is even less important then the already void of value the dead person chooses to place in his lifetime of choices of when to bite and when to chew.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Everything

[Everything]

 

And then the water evaporates and the sugar crystal is back. Oh, alas...

 

This is why suffering is escaped not by going into non-suffering, but by something more subtle. If suffering is a bad country that you leave on an airplane, then you just need a ride out and you don't need to understand why it hurts. But in reality suffering has to be understood. You cannot escape it, because it follows like a shadow until one understands why it happens.

Yeah, we have to understand suffering man. I totally agree with you. Can you like suffer for us? We will try and understand you. Edited February 15, 2014 by Everything

[Everything]

 

http://thetaobums.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/laugh.gif But if we do that, we'll soon see the entire topic has no meaning. It's best to avoid asking such question so we can continue our dream of alternating self-preservation and annihilation. (tongue in cheek).

But then you apply to this topic the value of perceiving that which has no fcking value, which is a pretty focking BIG DEAL!

[Everything]

Sufi's talk about the Baqa, the remaining after extinction, the existence after dissolution.

 

In the same way Shunya, the experience of the void, which represents an ending of the personality or false self is only the step before realisation of the Dharmakaya or Buddha nature, The Real Self.

 

Dont worry about Annihilation. The real you wont go anywhere http://thetaobums.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/laugh.gif

How do you experience the void if the void is void of experience? Edited February 15, 2014 by Everything