Yeshe Lama Thogal teachings

[kadak]

Weak because we're taught not to believe in their existence? Or weak because most people don't bother with the spiritual except as a few yearly (or less) rituals? Or weak because as a nation we're getting fatter and less physically active? Why do non-Westerners have stronger channels? Is Western society really that degenerated? (shades of Julius Evola!)

 

Do strong channels = healthy - necessary and sufficient - or is that only one among other conditions needed to not be weak? How exactly is a person with strong channels different from someone who has weak ones?

 

Hmm... I wonder if someone like the author of this article who denies the existence of Qi has naturally strong channels?

 

That may seem strange, but at some point, you begin to see channels, winds and drops of other people. Which is much more interesting than auras...

There are many things which are deadly to the channels, like drugs, alcohol and spiritism (channelling). And there are things which are really not good, like bad food, bad air, no exercise and emotional instability. The winds become sick, and as they are flowing through the channels, they create problems.

Now I see that young people are beginning to suffer a new "sickness", which is a strong and global instability of the subtle body. The consequence is that they are afraid of all, especially of other people. I think that television and computers are the main cause. If you see television or video games, you can notice a permanent instability of the images, which creates the same in the winds. These are "shaking" "trembling", that's difficult to describe, but it is clearly damaging the channels. Remember than you can destroy walls and bridges with vibrations.

It is easy to see weaknesses of the channels during pranayama. If you hold strongly your breath, prana will go astray in the weak channels first. A globally weak person won't be able to do strong pranayamas without severe prana imbalance. And they won't have much willpower anyway, because the will is depending on the channels. But they will have many spiritual experiences. Like a house with a hole in the wall. Anything can enter, light, thieves, wild beasts... And of course they're very good channels.

As for the author of the article, it doesn't mean anything. I need to see people to know how they are.

Edited July 19, 2009 by kadak

[Vajrahridaya]

 

If you're not willing to go crazy, then thogal is not for you. Thogal is for someone who is ready to depart conventional reality 100%. If you're that ready, you really don't need a book to tell you how to do it. By that time you have intimate understanding of how appearances work.

 

 

Thogal is specifically a contemplation that one is granted after mastering Tregchod and being constantly relaxed in that state. Then you get Thogal in order to completely realize the Jalus or body of light. What your talking about is just what is known as "crazy wisdom". I think though sometimes your just crazy.

 

 

 

Does anyone own a copy of "Yeshe Lama" thogal teachings? The cost is 85.00. However, if these teachings are already available in other texts, I will not buy it. I already own "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya" and "Dalai Lama's Secret Temple". The price is ridiculously high!

 

ralis

 

If you don't have the karma to spend that money on such a book, you should just take it as your not ready for the information. To complain about Tibetan Buddhist prices is soooo silly to me. Considering how inexpensive the retreats are with these Tantric Masters to receive specific tantric teachings as compared to Shaiva Tantra and Taoist retreats with Masters. They even work on a sliding scale making sure not to turn anyone away. To pay a little for a big book such as Thogal, which is a very deep and subtle transmission that leads to complete and total Buddhahood in this life and not only that but the compassionate Jalus realization, is just amazing!! You complain about dogma but look at all your own mental dogmas.

 

Proverbial mirror anyone?

 

Interesting point. I am not certain thogal is the end of things. Namkai Norbu and his son Yeshe both did Rainbow bodies in their last lifetime. Maybe one becomes more plastic.

ralis

 

HAHA!! Where on earth did you get the idea that there was an end of things? There is the collapse of reification of anything... and that's it. One can incarnate anywhere indefinitely with the right training and merit accumulations while still being free from the proliferation of any of these ideas.

 

I own most of those books, including the restricted ones. In what way are you helping me? Seems as though your statement assumes a lot.

 

ralis

 

It seems that you jump and prattle at the slightest provocation as well as assume a lot about other people. Looks like your not even a Master of Tregchod yet to even be looking for Thogal. Spiritual Materialism might be a good book for you.

 

i wouldnt have posted if you hadnt asked these last questions, but i would like to answer you question with zhuangzi "by standing beside the river ho". it is curious how that kind of advice seems to be popular in this regard, when folks want to discuss something they are told to get a transmission or ask a teacher or something, what good does this do?

 

Your asked to get a transmission because there are certain practices one must get the right "transmission" in your "car" for in order to get into that "gear". Otherwise it's just a whole bunch of information that acts more like a distraction than an aid. You have to step on the first rung of the ladder before you get to the top rung. If you want to burn the ladder down, you still have to get the order of materials right to start the fire.

 

All this New Age, "Give it all to me NOW"...

 

The reason comes from the monasteries ruling Tibet for 800 yrs. Tibet was a feudalistic theocracy. The poor were kept ignorant with superstitious beliefs. The propaganda (brainwashing) was that if a teaching was acquired outside of the religious venue, one would acquire bad karma, hell realms etc. This is no different than the European dark ages.

 

It is a known fact that most if not all of the Tibetan teachings were acquired from India, China, Mongolia and some areas around Afghanistan. However, the Lamas claim absolute knowledge and sole authority, directly from the enlightened God realms. Is this any different than Papal authoritarian claims of absolute power from God? The deference to a higher cause always leads to abuse, secrecy and acquisition of more power.

 

What I am against is the undermining of personal judgment in favor of joining the mindless collective. I live in Santa Fe NM and there are a lot of Tibetan wannabes that have sublimated their better judgment in favor of doing what they are told.

ralis

 

Rofl.. how bout that. I'm partially from Santa Fe and went to Santa Fe High.

 

As far as the other stuff goes... wow... you've been reading to many conspiracy theories. There is some of that of course. But, even Tantric Shaivism is the same way about their teachings, it does have to do with readiness. There is a process to undertake and progress to be made. We are dealing with the relative universe here. You are full of mental dogmas my dear. Practice some more tregchod if you even have transmission of rigpa yet.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[kadak]

[Vajrahridaya]

[Sunya]

Edited July 19, 2009 by mikaelz

[kadak]

Tummo is not a prerequisite for Thogal. Tummo is a completion stage practice of Tantra, and all Tantric practices are only supplemental to Dzogchen, they are not necessary nor required. First one receives transmission or direct introduction to Rigpa, than (if one gets it) they practice Trekcho to stabilize Rigpa presence than later Thogal when one is at a very high level. have you read Crystal and the Way of Light? its really an amazing book.

 

just because you didn't need transmission for gTummo doesn't mean others don't. you obviously just had a connection to the practice from previous life(s). since the retreat didn't help you that doesn't mean it won't help others. do you think your experience will be the same for everyone? is everyones name Kadak?

 

Hi

I'm sorry you didn't have the time to read my entire post, because I wrote "I don't say that anyone has to do like me".

As for tummo and thogal, tummo is not theorically a prerequisite, but it is practically one. The difference is subtle yet real. Like preliminaries. Tenzin Namdak said one day that preliminaries were not required for dzogchen. Another day he said that very few people in the world could practice dzogchen without doing preliminaries. Now, one can think he is among these few people, that's fine with me. I'm just saying that it is highly improbable that 20 people in the same sangha are.

[kadak]

what evidence do you have that Lamas view Westerners as inferior and are holding back on us?

 

This :

- speaking with a friend who learned tibetan, se said that someday she was speaking with a Rinpoche, and she asked him if tibetans knew about kundalini. He said "yes, but we don't want to speak of it".

- one day my former lama said that he couldn't say what was death because of course he was alive, and alive is not dead. So I told publicly that I didn't believe him, because he said that he had realized the real meaning of rigpa, which meant he was dead for some time (I didn't add my reasons because people would not understand, not knowing what I was speaking about. I was speaking about meaning clear light, complete dissolution of the winds, which is equal of being clinically totally dead. My purpose was to make him teach about clear light for other people, something he never did, yet he is giving extensive teachings about dzogchen, emptiness, clarity... ). His answer was :"Are you saying that I am dead and came back ? mwahahaha !". He was just making a fool of me (and displaying his low consideration for others). I was OK with that, but this day, I knew he would keep holding back for a long time. It was a retreat, during which I tried to make him speak about clear light, winds dissolution etc. He always skipped. Anyway, half of his followers believe they've realized the true meaning of rigpa, just because he never went into the details, example clear lights, meaning clear light etc... he sometimes mentions things, but refuses to be clearer when asked. One other day I was telling that I was capable of being lucid during some dreams and asking a master for direct transmission of rigpa, within the dream. He said that someone capable of this would be rather advanced and could easily reach clear light of dream. When I asked for a definition of clear light of dream, he refused. When I asked for a method (in private), he refused. All these skillfull means are nonsense. But in some way I have no doubt he has a great realization. I just know he messed up things with me. Probably because he doesn't want me to be around and tell others how much he is holding back.

[Sunya]

Dunno.

 

Namkhai Norbu speaks pretty openly about things like that.. and he writes about kundalini as "thigle", in the book Crystal and the Way of Light he briefly mentions it.

 

maybe you just needed a better teacher eh? I don't think all Lamas are perfect since perfection is only subjective. for some... that Rinpoche was the best teacher they could have at the moment, for others their karma is different.

 

my karma is strange as I'm drawn to Namkhai Norbu's open and radical approach but I really want a physical teacher. there is a Kagyu Lama living closeby and he is a Dzogchen/Mahamudra master but I get the feeling he's very traditional (as Kagyus typically are) and i'll have to do lots of prostrations and preliminaries before getting to the goody stuff. I'm no monk, and coming to terms with that, I might have to let go of my need for a constant physical presence. not sure if the traditional Tibetan approach is right for me, i'm drawn to Namkhai Norbu. taking transmission from him on the 31st (worldwide broadcast). I have the karma at the moment to discern and choose a teacher that befits my mindset. not many have that going for them. I do believe though, that we end up with the teachers that are most right for us. we are drawn to those that are there to fuel something, diminish something, or teach us about something. Did you really not benefit at all from that particular Rinpoche?

[Vajrahridaya]

But in some way I have no doubt he has a great realization. I just know he messed up things with me. Probably because he doesn't want me to be around and tell others how much he is holding back.

 

It's a very limited subjective experience. To roll every Rinpoche up into that bun would be not very Buddhist.

[JustARandomPanda]

And what is preventing you from trying on your own ?

 

 

In truth nothing I suppose. Except knowing that I know nothing I take note of the advice frequently handed out by fellow TaoBums much further along on the spiritual awakening path than myself.

 

Look at how many people in this thread raked Ralis over the coals for his simple question instead of answering it.

 

 

There is a strong prejudice at TaoBums - whether intentional or no - that can be summed up with the following:

 

 

"The student who advises himself has a fool for a teacher."

[Sunya]

call it tough love

 

[kadak]

Namkhai Norbu speaks pretty openly about things like that.. and he writes about kundalini as "thigle", in the book Crystal and the Way of Light he briefly mentions it.

 

So does lama Yeshe and that's even worse than nothing. Because kundalini is definitely not thigle, nor wind. It's something else. I can tell because I can feel pretty well red and white thigles. After 2 years of tummo, I've become interested in hinduism and I've tried to understand what exactly was kundalini without referring to another system. Just from the inside. And I've discovered that kundalini is the fundamental life force which ignites the red drop and drips the white drop. And dissolves the winds. And creates karma. It is the desire for samsara or the desire for God. Etc etc... It all depends how it is used.

It is located in the first chakra. It is the very key for tummo, and no one mentions it.

 

So :

To roll every Rinpoche up into that bun would be not very Buddhist.

 

What I said above is not a good point for them.

Now I've had a very good friend who told me about many great Rinpoches he has known, followed etc... since 30 years, doing retreat after retreat, capable of practicing 10 hours a day. A worthy practicioner. After years of discussion with him, it became clear he has never been told the fundamentals of completion stage. He doesn't know where he stands. Lamas have been playing with him all this time. Now he is rather old, the same lamas continue their play, telling he has probably 10 or 15 years left, he has not the fruit of practice, and he should do something about this. But they don't tell him what to do, for sure. When I try to explain him the different levels of clear light, the winds, the signs, how to know where he stands exactly on the path, he doesn't understand a thing.

I've seen a good amount of Rinpoches myself, they're all the same. And when I read Lobsang Tenzin's biography, he didn't get much help from them, despite of being a tibetan monk in a cave for 20 years. But he was no tulku.

If you are no tulku, you are nothing.

 

Did you really not benefit at all from that particular Rinpoche?

 

I did benefit from him, in many different ways. But what he has really taught me is to trust no one (I've followed him for 10 years, just to say it was not just a 6 months story).

 

There is a strong prejudice at TaoBums - whether intentional or no - that can be summed up with the following:

"The student who advises himself has a fool for a teacher."

 

It took me time to get over this. But when you have no choice, you change your mind. Being given the choice between trusting myself or being stuck in the middle of nowhere, I've taken the risk.

I've learned that, for masters, tibetan or indians, people like us are meant to realize in many lifes. Not in this one. That's why you can do karma yoga all your life, wasting your time, that's OK for them. You will be reborn better. And then you will still do karma yoga etc...

I've learned that it is politically incorrect if you want to realize in this lifetime. We should be patient, serve the guru, and ask no question. All will come in good time. The good time will be in a thousand lives, but that's not an issue for the gurus.

Anyway, I don't want to be this kind of fool. I simply refuse. And I can see that, if the living masters don't help, the buddhas are helping much. So, now, I'm sending my prayers to buddhas, especially Samantabhadra, or Paramatman. They're most reliable. They give you the clarity you need, because they're your own nature as well.

[goldisheavy]

Thogal is specifically a contemplation that one is granted after mastering Tregchod and being constantly relaxed in that state. Then you get Thogal in order to completely realize the Jalus or body of light. What your talking about is just what is known as "crazy wisdom". I think though sometimes your just crazy.

 

 

I think you don't have a clue. No offense. You must not understand the full implications of Dzogchen's intent. Dzogchen uproots convention 100%. What do you think "mix your mind with the world appearances" mean? What do you think tigle is, if not insanity, from ordinary POV? A tigle is a vision that appears as real as anything in the world while you are awake. While tigles appear as limited bubbles at first, you're supposed to spread them out and mix them with the world, thus making your entire world appearance like that visionary tigle. Of course the world is already 100% visionary, but this Dzogchen practice lets you see the meaning of that.

 

So, if a person's mind is firmly structured/conditioned by convention, then clear convention-breaking appearances will be felt as pain and suffering. The person will be scared of losing their mind.

 

On the other hand, if the person's mind is already soft and flexible and one intuitively knows that the world is an appearance, then such person doesn't need Dzogchen as a book or as an initiation. This person, in fact, lives the truth of Dzogchen and doesn't need togal either. Why? Because this person is either at, or very close, to the end result/fruit of what Dzogchen aims at with togal.

 

So my point is very simple. I don't want to scare anyone. I am against secrecy. For example, I can buy a book on how to prepare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid, and then maim myself with it, if I am not careful. Or hell, I can buy a book of matches and set myself on fire. But the matches are on sale, and that's good. Instead of keeping the matches secret, we explain to people the dangerous of matches and show them how things burn. This allows people to use potentially dangerous things like matches, acid, bullets, dynamite sticks, kitchen knives, needles, glass bottles, toothbrushes (dangerous if you foolishly attempt to stick one in your eye or rear end), and so forth, with care and responsibility.

 

A teaching on togal should be openly published together with the explanation of the ensuing world-vision. Then people should be offered an option of something like a diluted togal so they can get a taste of it. I think limited post-hypnotic suggestions can work here. So you can suggest to yourself that the next time you hear the noon bells, you'll see a vision of a strange demon eating a human eyeball and surrounded by rainbows. See if that's scary or not. If not, then try a vision of the Earth splitting in half. If still not scared, then proceed with togal. Maybe prior to togal one should try to do chod in the scariest cemetery of wild place you can think of. If this is perfectly agreeable, then go on with togal.

 

In other words, there is a gradual progression that's possible. There is no need to dive into the pool. You can first stick a hand into it and see how you like it. If people are explained about the pool and are explained how to stick more and more of themselves into it, there is no need to worry. Then people can do so responsibly.

 

I would say that mostly the post-togal vision of the world is a very happy one. However since you're dealing with limitless appearances here, it's best to be ready for anything. That's why Dzoghcen tantras have texts like "a dzoghcen practitioner wouldn't be scared even if molden lead were poured into their throats in the deepest of hells". There is a reason for that. While generally the visions will probably be beautiful and wonderful and all that, one has to be ready for anything because the mind becomes more open and less structured, more flexible, and thus more appearances becomes possible, some of which can be scary to people with narrowly fixed mindsets.

[Sunya]

Edited July 20, 2009 by mikaelz

[kadak]

Edited July 20, 2009 by kadak

[Vajrahridaya]

 

I've learned that it is politically incorrect if you want to realize in this lifetime. We should be patient, serve the guru, and ask no question. All will come in good time. The good time will be in a thousand lives, but that's not an issue for the gurus.

Anyway, I don't want to be this kind of fool. I simply refuse. And I can see that, if the living masters don't help, the buddhas are helping much. So, now, I'm sending my prayers to buddhas, especially Samantabhadra, or Paramatman. They're most reliable. They give you the clarity you need, because they're your own nature as well.

 

Samantabhadra is not Paratman. first of all, because Samantabhadra is merely an enlightened Buddha who had the merit to not be born into this cosmic kalpa with knowledge afflictions. There is no Paratman in Buddhism or Dzogchen. Your not even understanding the teachings of the system you are trying to practice. You speak of God some universal static, essence that exists from it's own side?

 

Oh boy...

 

Second of all, I have received guidence on the subtler aspects through dream yoga experience. I have experienced kundalini (one of my kundalini referenced experiences) as my Rinpoche, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche riding a Wind horse up my spine that was like a long cave, slapping with a stick my different chakra points then baking me like bread in an oven in my crown chakra and his eyes were blazing with bliss and I was in a state of bliss, but felt tight in an oven on the crown. The dream was deeply lucid and powerful. The Wing Horse is a Tibetan symbol for Kundalini. I've received many of these types of guidance's on subtler dimensions than the physical from different Rinpoche's, including the Dalai Lama and as well the current Karmapa who I feel very connected to, though haven't seen in this lifetime.

 

You've got many assumptions that are merely based upon your karmic baggage being reflected right back at you.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

I think you don't have a clue. No offense.

 

Should I be offended by the blind fool in the corner who thinks he see's mice?

 

You must not understand the full implications of Dzogchen's intent.

 

I know that I've been informed by more informed sources than you. From directly Tibetan non-translated into English sources. You go ahead and blow your stream though...

 

Dzogchen uproots convention 100%.

 

It doesn't uproot anything... it merely see's things just as they are and leaves them be as they are on all dimensions. If you think it means being crazy from the point of view of everyone else... You do need medication.

 

What do you think "mix your mind with the world appearances" mean? What do you think tigle is, if not insanity, from ordinary POV? A tigle is a vision that appears as real as anything in the world while you are awake. While tigles appear as limited bubbles at first, you're supposed to spread them out and mix them with the world, thus making your entire world appearance like that visionary tigle. Of course the world is already 100% visionary, but this Dzogchen practice lets you see the meaning of that.

 

What's ordinary POV? Yes sure... I've had plenty of these wondrous experiences all the time... blah, blah, blah. You still have to empty the basis. Which I'm sure you know nothing about. You probably mostly only have access to Semsde anyway.

 

 

On the other hand, if the person's mind is already soft and flexible and one intuitively knows that the world is an appearance, then such person doesn't need Dzogchen as a book or as an initiation. This person, in fact, lives the truth of Dzogchen and doesn't need togal either. Why? Because this person is either at, or very close, to the end result/fruit of what Dzogchen aims at with togal.

 

It's aim is Jalus, or another type of Jalus that elongated the physical appearance as well.

 

So my point is very simple. I don't want to scare anyone. I am against secrecy. For example, I can buy a book on how to prepare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid, and then maim myself with it, if I am not careful. Or hell, I can buy a book of matches and set myself on fire. But the matches are on sale, and that's good. Instead of keeping the matches secret, we explain to people the dangerous of matches and show them how things burn. This allows people to use potentially dangerous things like matches, acid, bullets, dynamite sticks, kitchen knives, needles, glass bottles, toothbrushes (dangerous if you foolishly attempt to stick one in your eye or rear end), and so forth, with care and responsibility.

 

Uh hu... So your perspective is so much better than beings trained for eons and remember it? Your so full of yourself dude. Seriously. You have no humility or reverence. It takes genuine reverence to be genuinely and fully realized "crazy wisdom" irreverent freedom from appearance.

A teaching on togal should be openly published together with the explanation of the ensuing world-vision. Then people should be offered an option of something like a diluted togal so they can get a taste of it. I think limited post-hypnotic suggestions can work here. So you can suggest to yourself that the next time you hear the noon bells, you'll see a vision of a strange demon eating a human eyeball and surrounded by rainbows. See if that's scary or not. If not, then try a vision of the Earth splitting in half. If still not scared, then proceed with togal. Maybe prior to togal one should try to do chod in the scariest cemetery of wild place you can think of. If this is perfectly agreeable, then go on with togal.

 

What you think is a whole lot of nuts in a bag.

 

In other words, there is a gradual progression that's possible. There is no need to dive into the pool. You can first stick a hand into it and see how you like it. If people are explained about the pool and are explained how to stick more and more of themselves into it, there is no need to worry. Then people can do so responsibly.

 

Go to a genuine Dzogchen master and ask if you are actually ready to teach Dzogchen. Someone who has done extensive dark retreats, has been with real Masters who attained the literal, "body of light" or "Jalus" like Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. Oh... that's right, you just think he's a nice guy. Even though his Master who attained the Jalus himself, taught him Tregchod then Thogal after he felt he had mastered Tregchod, thought he was quite ready for the Thogal contemplation.

I would say that mostly the post-togal vision of the world is a very happy one. However since you're dealing with limitless appearances here, it's best to be ready for anything. That's why Dzoghcen tantras have texts like "a dzoghcen practitioner wouldn't be scared even if molden lead were poured into their throats in the deepest of hells". There is a reason for that. While generally the visions will probably be beautiful and wonderful and all that, one has to be ready for anything because the mind becomes more open and less structured, more flexible, and thus more appearances becomes possible, some of which can be scary to people with narrowly fixed mindsets.

 

There is also the collapse of appearances into clear light.

 

You've probably taken too much acid in your life. Though, I do know multi-dimensional appearance first hand without the slightest need for chemical imbalancing.

[Vajrahridaya]

With tummo practice, one can feel red drop and white drop. This is definitely not the same thing as Muktananda describes in his books. "The power of a thousand suns" in Muladhara chakra is definitely not a matter of drops. But it can be triggered by drops. It is pretty obvious that, in tummo practice, kundalini is meants to be triggered by the white drop when it reaches the lower extremity of the central channel. Hence the great power of the four inverted joys and the fact than this third stage of tummo gives mastery over 5 elements. And allows to reach isolated clear lights. There is a new strong power operating in this third stage, which is not existing in the previous ones. It is kundalini.

 

Oh, you know of Muktananda. Yes, he was my Mother's Guru and mine as a kid, then Gurumayi gave me Shaktipat. I've read every single book by Muktananda, even those really old ones. I'm selling many of them on Ebay right now in fact. Under a1annah. Many of them have already been bought.

[Vajrahridaya]

With tummo practice, one can feel red drop and white drop. This is definitely not the same thing as Muktananda describes in his books. "The power of a thousand suns" in Muladhara chakra is definitely not a matter of drops. But it can be triggered by drops. It is pretty obvious that, in tummo practice, kundalini is meants to be triggered by the white drop when it reaches the lower extremity of the central channel. Hence the great power of the four inverted joys and the fact than this third stage of tummo gives mastery over 5 elements. And allows to reach isolated clear lights. There is a new strong power operating in this third stage, which is not existing in the previous ones. It is kundalini.

 

Oh, you know of Muktananda. Yes, he was my Mother's Guru and mine as a kid, then Gurumayi gave me Shaktipat. I've read every single book by Muktananda, even those really old ones. I'm selling many of them on Ebay right now in fact. Under a1annah. Many of them have already been bought.

[Aetherous]

It takes genuine reverence to be genuinely and fully realized "crazy wisdom" irreverent freedom from appearance.

 

Nice.

 

Vajrahridaya, I'm interested in what you know of jalus. Would you be willing to share?

[mat black]

You've got many assumptions that are merely based upon your karmic baggage being reflected right back at you.

This quote is very important, like a mirror...........

 

Vajrahridhaya's contributions are much appreciated.

 

 

Namo Guan Shr Yin Pusa.

[kadak]

Samantabhadra is not Paratman. first of all, because Samantabhadra is merely an enlightened Buddha who had the merit to not be born into this cosmic kalpa with knowledge afflictions. There is no Paratman in Buddhism or Dzogchen. Your not even understanding the teachings of the system you are trying to practice. You speak of God some universal static, essence that exists from it's own side?

 

1) Or maybe it's you, who don't understand hinduism and christianism ? Just repeating what others say, over and over, without taking the time to properly understand other traditions ? Rinpoches don't understand a thing of christianism. And not so much of hinduism. And why should they ? They're rinpoches, not swamis nor abbots.

 

2) When I begin to question others' beliefs, compassionate people quickly turn to despise and anger. That's a funny experience, and somehow I like it. In these occurrences, people reveal what they truly are, and not what they want us to believe. In fact, it is very easy to lead someone to put down the mask, and how instructive about human nature.

[Vajrahridaya]

1) Or maybe it's you, who don't understand hinduism and christianism ? Just repeating what others say, over and over, without taking the time to properly understand other traditions ? Rinpoches don't understand a thing of christianism. And not so much of hinduism. And why should they ? They're rinpoches, not swamis nor abbots.

 

Oh thou dost assumist so...

 

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche was a professor in Italy for 30 years before he formally started teaching Dzogchen. He learned some European mysticism.

 

I was raised in a universalist all is one view through Siddha Yoga my entire life before having a Dzogchen realization and memories, inner experiences related to Om Mani Padme Hum. I had many with Om Namah Shivaya for many years before that though.

 

I am educated in quite a bit about the history of all world religions. I've read through different bible versions, the dead sea scrolls, the nag hammadi library and had many different level's of experiences through the reads. I've read the texts of Miester Eckhart, St. Theresa of Avila and Lesuiex. St Francis of Assisi of which many texts I've read and have a deep connection to, though the realization is not as subtle as Buddhist realization. I've read Hildegard Van Begen, St. John of the Cross and so many more lesser known mystics from Europe. All major Hindu texts and many, many of their saints, Surdas, Tukaram, Jhaneshwar, Abhinavagupta, and all the major Kashmir Shaivism authors and poets. Guru Nanak, Wang Liping, Mirabai, Shankaracharya. My library is filled with Theistic approaches, Advaita, Dvaita, Mystic Christianity, Mystic Islam, Coptic Christian, Zorastrianism, Sikh, Taoist, some native American (who by the way were also very secret about their higher up teachings and not to do with politics, but with readiness of a seeker), as well as so many different ways of interpreting the cosmos and I've read all my books. I spent many years just reading, chanting, meditating, yogaing, selfless service, just delving into the meaning of these texts. Read the Bal Shem Tov, Rabia, Kabir, modern Sufi mystics Hafiz, Rumi and Kabbalah texts and commentaries. I know the teachings of the "Golden Dawn" by Aliester Crowley and am initiated into his so called "cult". It's an interesting club, it was mostly for fun as I was more seriously interested in Siddha Yoga at the time. Anyway.. I could name hundreds and hundreds of texts from all the different world religions and the different levels of experiences I had through my studies, transcendent experiences, Nirguna Brahman, and form samadhi's with Saguna Brahman, the different Samadhi's, Jhana states, whatever. No teaching out there compare to Dependent Origination/Emptiness which has a specific meaning and understanding that transcends a universal Alpha that is also the Omega. It transcends this God idea, this identity of all things that all other religions grasp to blissfully, this formless reality beyond all phenomena that is the true dimension of all things that beings call the true reality. This the Buddha say's is a Samsaric approach and is not the meaning of Dzogchen's Rigpa either. Buddhism is a much subtler approach. Nagarjuna even said that other spiritual traditions lead to higher rebirth but not complete liberation like the path of the Buddha Dharma. So many Buddhist Masters were Brahmin Hindu Pandits first before converting due to having a subtler realization through seeing the Buddhas Teaching objectively. The difference is so subtle, and easy to miss through semantics. But, the intuitive understanding of dependent co-arising transcends the substantialist one'ess of monism.

 

2) When I begin to question others' beliefs, compassionate people quickly turn to despise and anger. That's a funny experience, and somehow I like it. In these occurrences, people reveal what they truly are, and not what they want us to believe. In fact, it is very easy to lead someone to put down the mask, and how instructive about human nature.

 

Spend more time questioning your own beliefs and perceptions as well as your proverbial karmic mirror that is the universe you see and experience. As well... what happens to you when someone questions yours?

 

It's fine, I know were all good people here... just you know, gaining clarity and seeing where we are not clear, ya dig?

[Sunya]

This quote is very important, like a mirror...........

 

Vajrahridhaya's contributions are much appreciated.

 

 

 

if he learned how to relate his insights better to people he would be a truly great bodhisattva.

[JustARandomPanda]

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Edited July 21, 2009 by SereneBlue