Meat Eaters vs. Veggies

[GrandTrinity]

And how does this affect your three centers?

[sean]

You had set this poll to disallow replies ... when I tried to reply it told me I didn't have permission to, but seeing as you asked a follow up question in your post I assumed you didn't intend that so I made this topic open.

 

I was a vegetarian for two years, between ages of 17-19 (approx). When I started eating meat again it was so profoundly grounding that I compared how I felt beforehand to feeling like I was going to float away ... I won't even consider going vegetarian or vegan again unless I find proper nutritional support and deeply grounding practices. In this vein, Mike Mahler really seems to be on to something.

 

Sean.

[voice]

I was a vegetarian for 13 years (ages 22 to 34) because I felt squeamish cooking meat, and because it was the thing to do! Been a regular meat eater for the last 9 years. Wife suggested the change because the blood-type diet suggested that meat is important for me. Sure enough, it makes me feel strong and centered. But, too much meat makes me feel heavy. We buy organic, free-range meat and eggs.

 

I don't remember nearly often enough to give thanks to the creatures who have had their life taken to give me mine. But, another spin on it is that the matter of those creatures gets to be part of the experiment that is human me!

 

Chris

[neimad]

i dont subscribe to any kind of 'ism' (not even taoISM) cos i am trying to limit and reduce the number of labels attached to me.

 

so i am not a strict vegetarian but i prefer to eat vegetarian food if possible.

 

meat makes me feel heavy and stuck. i actually feel the meat get stuck in my intestines when i eat it and if i eat much of it i will get constipated.

 

i don't like the way meat makes me feel when i eat it, especially red meat and pork. i try to avoid pig as much as possible now..... on a side note, something i have noticed in people is that those people who eat a lot of pig actually begin to look piggish! i have noticed this with many people and sometimes i see people who may look a little piggish in some way and i'll ask them if they eat a lot of pig and 10 times out of 10 they will say yes. hahaha. you are what you eat, right?

 

anyways chicken is ok, better if it's organic and free-range, can really taste and feel the different.

 

and i enjoy eating fish, i don't really classify it the same way as other meat because it is so far removed from us evolutionary wise.

 

but when eating vegetarian i find it important to get some kind of protein source otherwise i will feel too floaty as saun said. it feels good for a while but i know where it heads if i keep that up.

so some kind of legume, e.g. dahl (lentils or mung beans) or nuts or something else along those lines finds regularity in my diet. doesn't need to be much though because if the intestines are functioning well we actually produce most of our protein from gut bacteria eating vegetables. also our body recycles protein so unless you are doing some strenuous muscle building activities, a heavy protein meal is only really need every couple of days.

 

if i go for a couple of weeks without meat (and also very important to me is going without wheat too) i begin to feel really really good, smooth from the inside.

[sunshine]

Really. With eating meat it is similar to all other stuff. It depends on where you are in your development. I have seen vegetarians that would be much better off consuming meat. Just adept to the circumstances in your development... as always: listen to your body.

 

There is a pretty good reason to avoid pigs: it has to do with them having no sweat pores... this way they tend to be pretty full of toxins. This is the main reason why in some religions they are considered dirty...

 

Harry

[neimad]

yeah i totally agree.

 

i also think it has a lot to do with body type too.

 

i have been realising lately that my stomach is actually quite weak. when seeing an ayurvedic doctor or a chinese acupuncturist i have been told this.... but i am actually beginning to be able to feel for myself that it is weak.

 

the problem with meat is that it requires a very high concentration of strong stomach acid to be able to digest it. the teeth cannot properly tear it apart.

most people do not produce the kind of acid needed to digest meat properly... as a result it goes down into the intestines in sticky clumps.

 

however if your diet is very rich in fresh vegetables, particularly green-leafy ones and also sprouts, then enzyme content will be much higher and the digestive system will be much stronger and it will be possible to digest meat properly. a person who wants to eat meat would probably find it very beneficial to eat meat on its own (avoid the bread, rice, pasta whatever that normally goes with it - save that for a seperate meat-free meal) with only vegetables, raw preferably, and salads.

 

most peoples diets however are not healthy enough to be able to eat meat as freely as they do.

 

physiologically speaking we are not designed in any way whatsoever to eat meat. however there are those people who through their family line have developed a stronger stomach and the ability to digest meat properly. this is not all and probably not even half of people out there.

 

the differences between humans and carnivores are so numerous. the difference between humans and true omnivores is also numerous.

there isn't a single part of our anatomy that we could point to and say "look... right there, that bit is for meat!"

none of it is. not our teeth. not our stomach. not our intestines.

 

nevertheless im not a person to preach that we should all start being vegetarians to each their own and im not strict myself, although if we did the world would transform radically and be a hell of a lot more sustainable too. the amount of land in australia that has been totally ruined by cattle grazing is ridiculous.

the amount of forests in africa and south america logged for cattle grazing is also ridiculous too.

but you tofu-loving vegetarians out there aren't any better off! cos the parts of the forest not cleared for cattle is cleared for soybean production anyway.

 

soy is another of the falsities that is totally misunderstood. but i'll leave that for another time.

[sunshine]

I don't fully agree with you. If you look into the world of apes Chimpazees belong to the most close to us... and they do eat meat. The literally hunt for it in groups... pretty good at it actually. The way their mucles are connected at the skull shows that they are meat eaters... completely different to Gorillas for example.

 

Regarding the way meat should be eaten & the acid of the stomach you mention:

actually meat should be eaten preferably most raw as well... this once again would give the bodies food that is alive and helps to dissolve itself..

 

Harry

[GrandTrinity]

Dman Neimad, you always amaze me. CAn you clarify a bit more on protein? A lot of poeple think they need at least 60 grams a day...this leads to me eating protein shakes and farting a lot, and I dont like it!

[sunshine]

Dman Neimad, you always amaze me. CAn you clarify a bit more on protein? A lot of poeple think they need at least 60 grams a day...this leads to me eating protein shakes and farting a lot, and I dont like it!

7796[/snapback]

 

If you don't mind me giving my pepper to it:

You do not need meat in order to get the proteins. See: if you eat nuts & vegetables & & & they are all composed of aminoacids to certain extents... potatoes, eggs etc.

 

meet protein needs to be broken down while if you eat the other stuff the body composes what it needs from the aminoacids delivered...

 

important is that you do not miss certain aminocids in your diet...

 

and: have a look at gorillas. They can get quite strong and do not eat meat for their proteins BUT: they consume a lot of plants all day long...

 

Harry

[DaoWaDiddy]

If you don't mind me giving my pepper to it:

You do not need meat in order to get the proteins. See: if you eat nuts & vegetables & & & they are all composed of aminoacids to certain extents... potatoes, eggs etc.

 

7798[/snapback]

 

I'm the walking proof of that one. I was raised as a lacto-ovo vegetarian (eats dairy and eggs) but did not eat ANY meat until about the age of 20 or so -- I was raised Seventh Day Adventist. We followed this to the point that my Mom would check for vegetable shortning in the products list and wouldn't buy if it wasn't specificly called out.

 

I tell people that it stunted my growth (6'2" - 215 lb.)

 

I do eat meat now, but tend more toward eating only a smaller amount of things like chicken, fish, etc.

 

Some folks see sizzling steak, I see steaming hunk of dead cow...

 

Meanwhile, it seems that the Seventh Day Adventists are on to something - mainly vegetarian, don't drink, don't smoke, etc. Actuarially, they tend to live over 4 years longer than the general population - and this without inner alchemy.

 

On the other hand, the overall lifestyle can be like living in a very small box - I gave it up early in my 20s.

 

Charlie

[peter falk]

neimad says:

 

"physiologically speaking we are not designed in any way whatsoever to eat meat. however there are those people who through their family line have developed a stronger stomach and the ability to digest meat properly. this is not all and probably not even half of people out there."

 

 

this is wrong. if anything, humans arent designed to be vegetarians. most vegetarians, that is herbivores, have digestive adaptations that are completyely absent in humans. for example, the most successful herbivores, the ungulates, have multiple stomachs. humnas do not. others have enormous stomachsand bodies to contain them--such as elephants. among the birds, witness the goose, among the biggest birds precisely because it eats nothiong but plants. it also ahs to eat and shit constantly and continuously. it you look at primate species that eat exclusively plant matter, they spend all day eating and the rest of the time sleeping in order to conserve energy because plants are basically not very nutritious or calorie rich. the same can be said of other herbivorous mammals like the sloth, it's life style and reputation are due precisely to being vegetarian.

 

this is not to say that the behavior of one species should be a certain way just because another species is. it does indicate, however that there are certain universal adaptions to the same survival strategy in evolution.

 

anotehr thing missing in humans that is common in herbivores is the jaw muscles and dentition, as i think chris or somebody pointed out. the otehr things humans lack are the bacteria essetnial to the digestion of cellulose that other herbivores have.

 

all in all, evolution has adopted humans to an omniverous existence. but evolution has also given us big brains that enable us to adapt thru intelligence what we can't thru genetics. hence different diets work for different cultures all over the world. traditionally, eskimoes eat no plant matter whatsoever and live perfectly healthy lives on meat and blubber alone (this lifestyle has faded in recent times). hindus on the other hand are often vegetarian and live healthy lives.

 

althought the physiological evidence presented by vegetarians is often specious, it does not denegrate one's choice to be vegetarian, as long it can be done in a healthy way.

 

btw, the chinese probably eat more pork than anyone, and all parts of the pig, many of which are of marginal food quality, and almost nobody here looks piggish. i've never seen such a wonderful and abundant collection of slender figures and tight little asses. nice legs too.

[neimad]

in thailand they eat a lot of pork. and i didn't say eating pork made you look piggish... just eating a lot of it. like twice a day, every day... as some people do. and people who eat like that... look piggish to me! haha.

 

i definately agree with you, peter, that we do also lack the stomachs etc to have a diet like ungulates... but you forget something here for this argument.

 

ungulates feed primarly on grasses. we do not include grasses in our diet in any way except for their seeds (and those people who like to drink wheatgrass juice!).

 

for us vegetables means something else entirely.... more like what monkeys eat with their dexterous hands, our closest animal relatives.

 

that is a diet of roots and tubers, various soft-walled leafs (not acacias like giraffes or other african ungulates eat), fruit, nuts and seeds.

our physiology is perfectly suited to this kind of eating..... there is no comparison between us and ungulates (even physically they aren't even close to us) just like there is no comparison between us and carnivores...

we just aren't the same!

i was not talking about a diet of only plant matter.... of course this aint good for us and you can see quickly when looking at those sickly raw foodists and strict vegans.

we need a balanced diet, and perhaps for some this balance may include quantities of meat.... for others it may not. but the key is variety. a wide range of food stuffs.

 

 

if you look at our cousins physiology... some of them are omnivores. they eat meat as well as other things... but if you look at them, very quickly you see differences between them and us! first to be noted is their massive canines for tearing flesh... if you look at their intestines you will find they have a higher secretion of stomach acids than us... etc.

 

anyone can argue all they like about eating meat etc. but they are just justifying a habit to themselves. but the simple truth is we are not designed to eat it.

we can eat it, and some people cope quite well with it.... just like we can live a life of sitting on our asses in front of square boxes... but its not what we are designed for! and too much of it leads to a detrimental quality of life!!!

just because something doesn't kill you in 2 days, or doesn't make you instantly ill... does not mean it is ideal or optimal for your body.

 

im not a vegetarian activist, i'm not even a true vegetarian, i dont really care what other people do, thats their own business not mine.

 

but if you like semantics and like to play around with facts... its very simple, meat is not a designed part of our diet.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

It doesn't at all! All in the mind...

[super80]

Shouldn't "herbivore" be replaced with something like Lacto-Ovo in your poll?? To me, vegan and herbivore seem to refer to the same thing-- veggie without any dairy, egg or meat...

[Tactile]

Regarding the question if humans are herbivores/carnivores by nature..

 

I would say human body is very well adapted to eating meat. Etnological studies (check out http://www.westonaprice.org/ for example) indicate that those cultures that had the highest rate of animal product consumption were the healthiest (inuit and masai for example). That is not to say that vegetarian diet is not good: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008...ic-islands.html a summary of a vegetarian culture which would be very healthy by any standards. So you can do it any way you like as long it's natural & not processed..

[Wayfarer64]

I eat some meat - sometime I eat much too much. But I wouldn't eat pork when I lived in Thailand! The pigs there eat human waste and anything else that they can get to...

 

Fish is best but too expensive, free range is better than mass-produced etc etc... there are many ways to live well ...

 

I do not think that humans are evolutionarily predisposed to being vegetarian. To state that seems counter- productive to vegetarians -it makes them seem foolish and striving to be "right" about an issue that is a matter of taste and choice...

 

Obviously too much of anything will tender bad results -

 

Please try to remember that the middle way is the Taoist way!

 

I also ALWAYS offer a prayer of thanks to any creature I eat, even fishies!-

 

Love to all- Pat

[Owledge]

Me meat love. But no me meat loaf.