Why teach taiji?

[Taiji Bum]

Check this out! I just found it looking over my journal thinking of putting the entire think online. This is a note I wrote when I first started teaching taiji in 1999.

 

Feb 1999

I began teaching Taiji at a local school and a small Dojo. What an eye-opener. Nobody wants to practice. It seems like a waste of time. Decided to teach only the eight energies as a beginning class. Those who take the time to master that I might advance into learning the 24 Beijing Form. Everybody hates push-hands.

 

I cant believe I kept teaching until 2005 but I guess its part of practicing the ART and following the WAY. Pass on what you have learned and it fully integrates within you.

 

So to all the professional teachers out there, why teach?

[Mal]

[Stigweard]

So to all the professional teachers out there, why teach?

Because it is the most natural thing in the world to do I truly LOVE it!

 

To share with someone else that which has inspired me and has taken me to amazing depths of myself is an incredible joy. And then I have those treasured moments where a student, after months of struggling with a move, suddenly 'gets it' and their face lights up with the same inspiration that captivates me ... WOW!

 

But also I teach so that I can learn ... my students, through the mere inquiry of their presence, draws out of me the wisdom of my soul. By reaching further into myself so that I can be of true service to them I learn more than I have ever done from books. They help me bring all my scholarly understanding into the practical realms of experience. For that I can never thank them enough and I am deeply honoured and humbled by their service to me.

 

[Yuen Biao]

So to all the professional teachers out there, why teach?

 

My teacher always used to say that you learn more about yourself when you begin to teach classes.

When I used to go to classes my teacher she would always demonstrate the practicality on myself which was cool because I learned maybe quicker than others!

 

I'm not a 'professional' teacher, but I occasionally teach my girlfriend and friends Taiji. I could teach and probably will when I'm older.

[Aetherous]

I'm not a teacher, but if I were, I'd make it my goal to inspire the students, instead of simply teaching them things. Learning has everything to do with caring about the material, and little to do with memorizing it or simply doing it. There should be reasons for why the students are learning the 8 energies, etc...and the students should for whatever reason care about those reasons. Everyone has individual goals...some want to get in shape, some want to be peaceful, some want to study the greatest martial art of all time, etc. If these people don't feel like they're going to reach those goals, then it won't be interesting to them.

[doc benway]

Great thread -

I don't have time to write much right now but I just agreed to write a newsletter article about this very topic for our school. It'll be cool to see the response in this thread and I'll add a few ideas when I get some time.

[minkus]

I dont know either .. my teacher doesnt get alot of recognition and he's students dont put in alot of effort.

 

He explains everything perfectly and you can ask many questions, he's funny and kind ... but still not that much students . The ones he has arent that intrested it seems .. they yust do taiji to relax during the class i think.

 

Pitty as my teacher is so advanced in Chen taiji :/ i mean really really really deep .. but the students dont see it LOL ... they dont see the diamond blinking right before there eyes. All they have to do is pick up the beautifull shiney diamond but no.

 

I guess most of them dont know because he's so integer .. he never shows off with he's skills, ever.

 

He gives he's lessons the traditional way and that means you have to put effort in it, if you dont put effort in .. skip often, dont ever train at home etc .. you will not progress and will not learn and be learned alot of new fancy things.

 

Its a pitty, its sad really knowing he's level. I personally seen what he can do, mostly in subtle things .. so doing all in my possibility to follow in he's footsteps

 

He got 1 extremely dedicated student yeh Meeeee

Edited March 31, 2009 by minkus

[Martial Development]

If you can't find a prefab set of practice partners, then you have to build them from the ground up.

[Stigweard]

If you can't find a prefab set of practice partners, then you have to build them from the ground up.

So true

[goldisheavy]

Check this out! I just found it looking over my journal thinking of putting the entire think online. This is a note I wrote when I first started teaching taiji in 1999.

 

Feb 1999

I began teaching Taiji at a local school and a small Dojo. What an eye-opener. Nobody wants to practice. It seems like a waste of time. Decided to teach only the eight energies as a beginning class. Those who take the time to master that I might advance into learning the 24 Beijing Form. Everybody hates push-hands.

 

I cant believe I kept teaching until 2005 but I guess its part of practicing the ART and following the WAY. Pass on what you have learned and it fully integrates within you.

 

So to all the professional teachers out there, why teach?

 

What irony. My perception is that no one wants to teach. Everyone throws low quality bones around and not what I would call a serious teaching. Further, the teachers are not real, meaning, often it's a one way street (instruction flowing unilaterally from teacher to student) and you cannot ask or challenge the teacher, which is very bad.

 

So here's a thought. Maybe there are good teachers and good students, but they just can't seem to connect? It might be our karma -- maybe something we are doing or something we are believing at this time. I won't go to a class that's set up to teach western morons so that the teacher has the time to teach 2 closed door students. Basically I am not going to subsidize anyone's education, unless it's done out in the open and I am asked to subsidize it as a donation, then I might. But if I am sold an inferior lesson just so that 2 people can get the real lesson in secret -- no go. And it's impossible to fool me. I know what is real and what is bullshit. Also, I hope to educate more and more people about what is real and what's bullshit so that maybe more people are taught the real deal and the tradition of closed door students goes into the toilet of history.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

PS.: If Taiji is just movement, that's not a real teaching. Real Taiji has nothing to do with forms. So if I arrive and all I am taught is how to perform movements, I understand this to be a dancing class, and if I want a dancing class, I would rather learn from break dancers than from some lame Taiji pseudo-dancers. Taiji is not about dancing. So if physical movement is all I am taught, I depart immediately after the free demonstration.

Edited April 1, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Mal]

[WhiteTiger]

Taiji is not about dancing. So if physical movement is all I am taught, I depart immediately after the free demonstration.

HAHAHA

 

Some teachers I've gone to don't offer the free class.

 

I seem to put myself in sucker positions every time.

[Sunya]

hey guys, what style of tai ji do you do? I just started learning Chen style, which I hear is more martial compared to Yang. would it be fair to say Chen is more external, Yang is more internal? is one more preferred than the other for cultivation if martial application isn't a deciding factor?

[Mal]

[minkus]

Chen is internal yust as Yang

 

Yang can be applied martially no probs.

 

I can honestly say out of experience that Chenjiagou Chen is a very powerfull and complete system for cultivation. So so deep

 

Dont know about yang for cultivation out of own experience although im sure yang, wu, chen etc are all efficient for cultivation aslong as the correct principles are applied.

 

Regards, keep on training

[Yuen Biao]

PS.: If Taiji is just movement, that's not a real teaching. Real Taiji has nothing to do with forms. So if I arrive and all I am taught is how to perform movements, I understand this to be a dancing class, and if I want a dancing class, I would rather learn from break dancers than from some lame Taiji pseudo-dancers. Taiji is not about dancing. So if physical movement is all I am taught, I depart immediately after the free demonstration.

 

I know what you are saying but it of course is dependant upon your movement that you do not get hit when you are protecting yourself!

 

 

 

 

hey guys, what style of tai ji do you do? I just started learning Chen style, which I hear is more martial compared to Yang. would it be fair to say Chen is more external, Yang is more internal? is one more preferred than the other for cultivation if martial application isn't a deciding factor?

 

Quite a misconception. I study Yang and I have always learned the applications of the movements; the movements/applications are the same whether it is Yang or Chen as far as I'm concerned.

 

I've also learned a Yang offshoot which is a pure fighting form known as Ruyi Taijiquan.

[goldisheavy]

[Taiji Bum]

I will hang around if the first words out of the teacher's mouth are "Tai chi is not about movement". Imagine that? You don't have to explain everything, just say it. That will grab my interest. If the teacher says, "Move like this, move like that", I leave right away. It's obvious either the teacher is incompetent or the teacher thinks I am a moron who hasn't done any homework prior to class. Either way it's a bad teacher. I don't want a teacher who underestimates me and I don't want an idiot teacher either.

I would never be your student then. No problem. Then you wonder how come you don't have good students, eh? Thing is, the top notch student doesn't want to sit through the ABC's, because guess what? A top notch student has probably already been studying this for a long time before your class, and it's insulting to assume they are a newbie who understands nothing.

 

A better approach is to ask people their prior experience in meditation, contemplation and energy practice. Then go from there. That's more intelligent. Then you will lose fewer good students.

 

From where I sit, the problem of not having good students is obvious to me. I know where the problem is.

Are you a troll? What you said has absolutely no basis in the real world and I cant imagine anyone as narcissitc as you being real. Can you post a photo of you and your wife with a newspaper or something? Can you post a link to a photobucket account, facebook or myspace for yourself?

 

EDIT: Post a video of you doing the form. Mal, Santi and I have so how about you? I seriously think your just a troll.

Edited April 1, 2009 by DarinHamel

[goldisheavy]

Are you a troll? What you said has absolutely no basis in the real world and I cant imagine anyone as narcissitc as you being real. Can you post a photo of you and your wife with a newspaper or something? Can you post a link to a photobucket account, facebook or myspace for yourself?

 

EDIT: Post a video of you doing the form. Mal, Santi and I have so how about you? I seriously think your just a troll.

 

You're a troll. You troll people for money in the real world. Basically you're a fraud.

[Taiji Bum]

You're a troll. You troll people for money in the real world. Basically you're a fraud.

I rest my case......

[Stigweard]

[doc benway]

I will hang around if the first words out of the teacher's mouth are "Tai chi is not about movement". Imagine that? You don't have to explain everything, just say it. That will grab my interest. If the teacher says, "Move like this, move like that", I leave right away. It's obvious either the teacher is incompetent or the teacher thinks I am a moron who hasn't done any homework prior to class. Either way it's a bad teacher. I don't want a teacher who underestimates me and I don't want an idiot teacher either.

From where I sit, the problem of not having good students is obvious to me. I know where the problem is.

An alternative perspective -

 

Tai Ji may not be "about movement" (actually, I would say Tai Ji transcends movement) but Tai Ji Quan is all about movement.

There is nothing to explain - there is movement (and, to be more clear, I'll add awareness).

The beauty and unique character of Tai Ji Quan is the integration of mind of intent and awareness with movement. Nevertheless, the Quan is all about the movement. Tai Ji is the guiding principle of the Quan but you can't ignore the Quan.

 

If you take movement out of Tai Ji Quan, you have intellectual investigation. This may be entertaining and even enlightening but it is not Tai Ji Quan. Meditation is very valuable in attaining a high level of skill in Tai Ji Quan and I'd even be comfortable saying that meditation is more important than movement in cultivation (by far) but meditation is not Tai Ji Quan. It is meditation. Similarly, Tai Ji Quan is not cultivation - it improves and benefits from cultivation but it's not that.

 

My primary purpose for teaching is selfish. I want to be the best I can in Tai Ji Quan and teaching takes your level of understanding to a deeper level. I have a demanding full time job and Tai Ji Quan teaching is on the side but it's worth the effort. There are lots of others benefits for me to teaching (more personal time with my teacher and more advanced instruction, an opportunity to share my passion with others, the camaraderie of my fellow instructors, and so on) but for me, the most important thing is the effect it has on my own training and cultivation.

Edited April 2, 2009 by xuesheng

[goldisheavy]

As Confucius said, "Never give a sword to a man who can't dance."

 

 

Sure, sure. It's like in weight lifting, you don't start someone off with a weight they cannot handle. However, when you come to weight lifting, you are told right away, "Buddy, this class is not about looking good. It's about strength. If you want the fake looks, you want a body building class down the hall." You have to introduce your class right away, without delay.

 

In Tai Chi, everyone who comes there has seen the movements somewhere. However, Tai Chi is not about the movements. Movement and form can be part of the training. But does it have to be? Well, movement cannot be avoided, but form is optional. Form is not necessary. So what is Tai Chi about?

 

How do you introduce it?

 

Let's face reality here. If Tai Chi is about movement, then let's look at it as a movement.

 

As a dance, it's uglier than salsa and break dancing.

 

As a physical movement-oriented martial art, it's utterly wimpy and non-functional (a teacher couldn't move my arm at all, for example, and this is a joke... he said, "We use one ounce of strength to move 10 ounces cliche... I gave him some strength and he was farting all over himself trying to budge my arm... he was red faced and embarrassed because he lied -- he obviously never heard "you must have the strength of 1000 lbs before you can move 1000 lbs with 1 ounce of effort" and other things like that). There is strength in the subtlety, but you have to introduce subtleties of movement rather than the form, and there is a HUGE difference. When you talk about subtleties, you're getting to the heart of the matter, whereas the form is tangential and is a diversion.

 

As a movement-oriented health exercise it is inferior to yoga in every way. Yoga has more full body movements, more stretching, infinitely more challenge at higher levels while still being very easy at lower levels.

 

So, no matter how you slice it, Tai Chi as a pure physical movement is a failure.

 

What is good about Tai Chi is not its superficial movements, but its inner core, its philosophy, and its principles when understood and applied. And those have to be introduced on day one.

 

There are exceptions to this. But exceptions are like this, and many of you people here won't like what I will say next. Say you come to the park. You exercise for yourself. And some people notice you have unusual abilities. So they beg you to teach. And you give them asinine rules to follow and all kinds of bullshit. This is fair, why? Because: 1 - you were there to practice for yourself, 2 - you don't charge money, 3 - you never advertised yourself as a service, so you never set expectations, thus, if any fool expects anything, that's the fool's problem and not yours. Fine. If you are a guy like that, be asinine. Demand 3 years of dumb repetition before you will teach, whatever. However, if you are a business, you have to provide honest value for money. Which means you have to get to the heart of the matter right away.

 

You may not load the student to the max, but you never cheat them. For example, in a gymnastics class you can see all kinds of advanced exercises. A good teacher can show you those to get you to understand what you can expect to develop. Of course with gymnastics, we all know what to expect. But with Tai Chi -- not so. So it's good to open it up completely, but then tell the person, that they will practice at their level of ability. Still, there is no need to condescend to the student. No need to assume the student is moron. No need to give them false information, which would be the case if all you show in the introduction is physical movement. Etc. Show students some respect if you want to get some respect in return. Show some to get some. It's that simple.

 

So how about it? Am I making any sense?

[goldisheavy]

An alternative perspective -

 

Tai Ji may not be "about movement" (actually, I would say Tai Ji transcends movement) but Tai Ji Quan is all about movement.

There is nothing to explain - there is movement (and, to be more clear, I'll add awareness).

The beauty and unique character of Tai Ji Quan is the integration of mind of intent and awareness with movement. Nevertheless, the Quan is all about the movement. Tai Ji is the guiding principle of the Quan but you can't ignore the Quan.

 

This is wonderful, isn't it? So you will show me how to apply Tai Ji Quan to all my movements? And that's what I will be practicing and not a pre-fab form, right? Right? Right? I hope so. Otherwise you're lying to me at least a little bit.

 

If you take movement out of Tai Ji Quan, you have intellectual investigation.

 

I might have made that mistake. If so I apologize. But I meant form rather than movement. Movement is unavoidable. What about form though? Tai Chi form is a big joke, isn't it? Admit it. How is Tai Chi form better than spontaneous movement? Let's see it. How is it better than a boxing form? Than yoga? Than salsa dancing form? Is it uniquely good? If yes, how? I've never heard it explained, because it can't be explained! What I have heard are apologies though, like this, "Well, it looks wimpy, but it's very powerful. I can move 10 lbs of force with just 1 ounce, watch this... OK pretend you punch me... OK... PSSSSSSS AAAAARRRGGG PRRRRRR SSSSSSS CRAP .... AAARRGG OK OK... can you relax buddy? I can't move your arm at all, and now I am exhausted, red faced and out of breath. Crap, I guess I cannot move 10 lbs with 1 ounce after all, but let's pretend I can so I can continue the class, Jeez.... this is embarrassing..."

 

I don't think Tai Chi is bogus, by the way. But is its coolness disclosed to the student right away? Is it introduced? Or do you make the student waste time, money and suffering for 10 years before you deign to teach them the real Tai Chi?

 

 

Meditation is very valuable in attaining a high level of skill in Tai Ji Quan and I'd even be comfortable saying that meditation is more important than movement in cultivation (by far) but meditation is not Tai Ji Quan. It is meditation. Similarly, Tai Ji Quan is not cultivation - it improves and benefits from cultivation but it's not that.

 

First of all, that's a good thing to say during an introductory lesson. That paragraph is already head and shoulders above what I heard from my fake Tai Chi teacher. Still, what IS Tai Chi? How is Tai Chi different from sneezing or from sweeping the floors or boxing?

 

My primary purpose for teaching is selfish. I want to be the best I can in Tai Ji Quan and teaching takes your level of understanding to a deeper level.

 

I think that's great. More power to you.

[Mal]