Why teach taiji?

[forestofsouls]

Sounds like thinking in circles to me. Sort of like trying to pull yourself up by your ankles.

 

Yes I can put on a different "me" instead of the usual "me". You know there is no way to get rid of oneself completely, right? Even if you assume the identity of empty space, you're then empty space. If you assume the identity of having no identity, then you are still distinct from that which does have an identity. If you assume the identity of having a flexible identity, you're then different from that which is inflexible in its identity and so forth.

 

That's contemplation for you.

 

[goldisheavy]

Sounds like thinking in circles to me. Sort of like trying to pull yourself up by your ankles.

 

All thinking, all non-thinking, all doing, all non-doing has that same quality. When you recognize it, it's OK to just think.

Edited April 3, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Martial Development]

I really don't mean to sound condescending, but I seriously think the way wu shu is taught is wrong 99% of the time. Why? Because the teacher spends too much time focusing on externals, on the particulars of forms. Like move your elbow. Move your foot. They don't explain why? According to what principle should your elbow be there? What's the reason? What is the inner meaning of this? This information is not revealed.

 

And what's REALLY shameful is that when you join INTERNAL arts like Tai Chi, a lot of times you are taught nothing but external movement, which is a HUGE JOKE!!! You go to an internal art, specifically with the mind set to learn something internal, and you find out it's nothing but physical movements, and even those are not very impressive? See what I am saying?

 

In Tai Chi, more so than in some other martial arts, you need the hardware before you can run the software.

 

When some goofball walks in off the street with an Atari 2600, and demands that you insert your Blu-Ray DVD, what do you do?

 

You play stupid. You wait for him to leave your class in frustration. You let him go blow smoke in some Internet forum, and thereby become someone else's problem.

 

This is our grand martial tradition. This is the voice of experience talking.

 

 

And if you don't like it, then take up Krav Maga.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Martial Development

[Mal]

Haha yes that's pretty much what it comes down to. I can offer X you want Y so you will have to look for it elsewhere.

[WhiteTiger]

You know its been said that when the student is ready the teacher will come.

 

Lets say for a second, we accept this saying. Lets at least also claim that the opposite of this is also true.

When a real teacher is really willing to teach a Student the student is willing to learn, train hard, and practice lots. Even hours on end with or without the teacher there. (The teacher may be a good friends of the student and the same the other way around but the student is mainly focused on trainning and the teacher is interested in helping the student when he has questions or wants to learn more and willing to train for it)

 

At least this is my personal view on the matter. However I don't think this type of thinking is beyond my evolution of personal understanding. (My intellectual understanding which I view is weak compared to many other more experienced individuals and intellectuals)

 

Maybe we should start a thread about real tai chi theory and principles for Goldisheavy and for many others to benefit from it (including me). Giving away many pearls or gems so people can have a better understanding of deeper things that need to be in Taijiquan. I myself would be interested in sharing the little information I may hold. (although a bunch of Gem imo, what i have to say i'm sure would be a good start off to the thread.) How does that sound to the rest of TTB that are teachers in Taijiquan or assistant teachers? I'd be more then willing to share a bunch of information about it freely.

Edited April 3, 2009 by WhiteTiger

[fiveelementtao]

I myself would be interested in sharing the little information I may hold. (although a bunch of Gem imo, what i have to say i'm sure would be a good start off to the thread.) How does that sound to the rest of TTB that are teachers in Taijiquan or assistant teachers? I'd be more then willing to share a bunch of information about it freely.

 

I would pull up a chair and gratefully listen...

[goldisheavy]

You know its been said that when the student is ready the teacher will come.

 

Lets say for a second, we accept this saying. Lets at least also claim that the opposite of this is also true.

When a real teacher is really willing to teach a Student the student is willing to learn, train hard, and practice lots. Even hours on end with or without the teacher there. (The teacher may be a good friends of the student and the same the other way around but the student is mainly focused on trainning and the teacher is interested in helping the student when he has questions or wants to learn more and willing to train for it)

 

Yes! You put it best. Why can't the same saying be said as "When the teacher is ready, the student will appear?" I do believe this one is equally as true. So when I hear complaints about bad students, I can't help but think some teachers need mirrors installed in front of their faces. Maybe this isn't the complete truth, and I can accept that. But if I accept that, let's also accept that "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" is also not the complete truth either. That sounds reasonable to me. This would also be a cause for compassion. So instead of saying "ah, it's your own fault", maybe we can go "awww.... maybe it's your own fault, or maybe not... here here... have a cookie" or something like that.

 

At least this is my personal view on the matter. However I don't think this type of thinking is beyond my evolution of personal understanding. (My intellectual understanding which I view is weak compared to many other more experienced individuals and intellectuals)

 

Maybe we should start a thread about real tai chi theory and principles for Goldisheavy and for many others to benefit from it (including me). Giving away many pearls or gems so people can have a better understanding of deeper things that need to be in Taijiquan. I myself would be interested in sharing the little information I may hold. (although a bunch of Gem imo, what i have to say i'm sure would be a good start off to the thread.) How does that sound to the rest of TTB that are teachers in Taijiquan or assistant teachers? I'd be more then willing to share a bunch of information about it freely.

 

This sounds great to me. I believe that all wisdom is important to preserve and to share. If someone is tired or sick, that's a different story. But if a person has wisdom and is in good mood and in good health, then why not share? If it feels like a big old chore, maybe it's best not to say anything. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't be happy to share some wisdom if the health is good.

[WhiteTiger]

*Smiles at goldisheavy*

 

I think health of a person has nothing to do with giving gems they may know.

 

My gems are really nothing special or out of the ordinary but many aren't exposed to it. The general good taijiquan teacher should know about these gems, or all these gems. As I'm not claiming I know something special many others don't but I show a special willingness to share them for no fee... no charge... I actually want nothing in return. I rather people be more aware and that's my gift honestly.

 

If I make meet some friends along the way that's ok if not that's ok too.

If i earn some respect that's ok, if i don't that's ok.

If I in some sort of indirect way or direct way make other peoples awareness more about a subject then that's GREAT, if not that's ok.

 

P.S.

What i was saying about "when the student is ready the teacher will come" and conversely true also... opposites to one sided phrases/Quotes should always taken into account weather or not the phrase/quote touches upon it.

 

Polar Opposites should obviously understood because its preached about in Yin and Yang, sun and moon, masculine and feminine, birth and death. We can even apply in to modern science or anything. The theory does not have boundaries otherwise its philosophical meaning does not hold true. Many if not all Taoist Philosophical meanings hold true.

[Yuen Biao]

The best demonstration I got was from someone practicing southern style praying mantis. What surprised me was how this guy was breathing into my nose and ear while punching and kicking me. I've never encountered anything like this before. He said that invading personal space is the trademark of his style. I thought it was interesting. And he was very fast. I would pay 200 bucks to see this guy go up against a Tai Chi guy. Would be fun. Try to stick and follow something so fast and close and personal.

 

Taiji does not always rely on 'sticking' to an opponent but can at the same time be the most evasive and sneaky art around.

[Ian]

One day my teacher tells me he's had enough. He builds a funeral pyre and asks me to light it. He hops on top. And I light it without hesitation, regardless of the laws or implications.

 

Nice dream ah? Why would you settle for less? If I never meet some teacher like that, I have vowed that I myself will become this teacher. I will not rest until it is done.

 

I got some matches somewhere... (pats pockets, moves piles of paper...)

 

Yes I can put on a different "me" instead of the usual "me". You know there is no way to get rid of oneself completely, right? Even if you assume the identity of empty space, you're then empty space. If you assume the identity of having no identity, then you are still distinct from that which does have an identity. If you assume the identity of having a flexible identity, you're then different from that which is inflexible in its identity and so forth.

 

This is so wonderfully, utterly, beautifully wrong, (in my opinion, of course) that finally I can stop reading your posts. I've carried on long after I wanted to, curious about how someone can be so agreeably chatty and really very bright the one minute, and so completely, self-defeatingly, alienatingly, inconsiderate in communication the next.

 

But now I've had enough. Thank you gold, fun while it lasted.

 

P. S. Yodisattva vow unbroken, in my opinion.

[goldisheavy]

This is so wonderfully, utterly, beautifully wrong, (in my opinion, of course) that finally I can stop reading your posts. I've carried on long after I wanted to, curious about how someone can be so agreeably chatty and really very bright the one minute, and so completely, self-defeatingly, alienatingly, inconsiderate in communication the next.

 

But now I've had enough. Thank you gold, fun while it lasted.

 

P. S. Yodisattva vow unbroken, in my opinion.

 

You offer no refutation. So you have no leg to stand on when you talk about being considerate. You have superficial politeness, but really you're a jackass. And that's OK. I love you anyway, although don't blame me if I need to take a nap after interacting with you. I'll be back after the nap every time.

 

Now as for you, you'll stop listening to me after you're dead. As long as you're alive you'll have no choice but to listen to me. I am not some person on some forum you know. I am an aspect of your awareness, and this aspect isn't going anywhere. It's yours to keep and do with as you please, except ignoring it is not an option.

 

Good luck to you, ignorant one.

 

My gems are really nothing special or out of the ordinary but many aren't exposed to it. The general good taijiquan teacher should know about these gems, or all these gems. As I'm not claiming I know something special many others don't but I show a special willingness to share them for no fee... no charge... I actually want nothing in return. I rather people be more aware and that's my gift honestly.

 

If I make meet some friends along the way that's ok if not that's ok too.

If i earn some respect that's ok, if i don't that's ok.

If I in some sort of indirect way or direct way make other peoples awareness more about a subject then that's GREAT, if not that's ok.

 

I put you on top of my head and bow many times.

Edited April 3, 2009 by goldisheavy

[goldisheavy]

I got some matches somewhere... (pats pockets, moves piles of paper...)

This is so wonderfully, utterly, beautifully wrong, (in my opinion, of course) that finally I can stop reading your posts. I've carried on long after I wanted to, curious about how someone can be so agreeably chatty and really very bright the one minute, and so completely, self-defeatingly, alienatingly, inconsiderate in communication the next.

 

But now I've had enough. Thank you gold, fun while it lasted.

 

P. S. Yodisattva vow unbroken, in my opinion.

 

Hmmm, I must say this. I have changed my mind. I don't think you're a jackass at all. I like you a lot. I don't care if you agree or disagree or if you don't like anything I say. I like how you think and I like your particular contributions to this forum.

 

If you think there is some contradiction here, you're wrong. I am capable of thinking very well of myself, and of you, and know that you don't like what I say, and there is no problem in my mind. I got plenty of room here.

 

So please carry on. I do think that your lack of understanding of what I am saying is more related to your laziness and emotional hangups than to any actual philosophical problem.

[WhiteTiger]

 

anyone actually interested in that Tai Chi thread?

 

So far it seems i got one vote from fiveelementtao and half a vote from Goldisheavy = 1.5 votes

Edited April 4, 2009 by WhiteTiger

[Mokona]

I'm not a teacher of Tai Chi Chuan myself, and I don't remember the entire form. I know enough to practice on my own and keep the feel energy flow and finish off feeling relaxed and energized. I enjoy teaching it to my peers so we can both recieve the relaxation benefit, and eventual energy effects if enough time is put in. (Its hard to learn to stay relaxed through movments at first! Still working at it)

I like Yang Cheng-fu's Ten Classical Principles - Although I admit I forget several at a time and have to re-read. I really am a newbie!

 

Goldisheavy,

Tidewatertaichi holds some good links for how to use your energy during practice. The above principles help with that, and the FAQ section gets into it too.

[Stigweard]

Edited April 4, 2009 by Stigweard

[WhiteTiger]

When I'm done reading through all the tai chi threads posts I may add some more information... as i talked about giving those free gems.

 

Personally I really don't think anyone should waste there time with Taijiquan unless they are learning anything considerately decent... imo there should be some grounds to what are "red flags" to signal teach.

 

I personally can't stand red flags going up when teachers are severely lacking in things they are teaching. Makes me want to immediately quit... although depending the situation I will or won't quit...

 

Goldisheavy it is true once you have a decent foundation in Tai Chi that experiencing it for yourself and developing your own understanding as you deepen doesn't require a teacher but of course you should continue to go to classes to learn stuff... unless your not.

[Mokona]

I understand that my spelling may be off, please don't be swayed I incoporate som QiGong into my Tai Chi Chuan practice as well, and try to practice both before moving into meditation. What I do wonder, though - if I'm in it for energy cultivation and enlightenement instead of the martial benefit, what would be a martial art that would be good for self defense then?

 

I am a black belt in TyKwando, but that was just sport - and it seems that it can be difficult to find a "good" teacher. So I'm cautious about what I try, and which dojo to approach. Would it be possible to recieve some advice on this topic?

 

Also, Tai Chi Chuan also seems to have a very strong relaxation focus, and seems to move energy around just fine, only, from what I read that sort of thing is taught much later on in other martial arts. Is there a fighting style I can join that will also focus on the energy applications early on, or do I need to wait it out? (Or figure it out on my own?)

Edited April 4, 2009 by Mokona

[Stigweard]

I understand that my spelling may be off, please don't be swayed I incoporate som QiGong into my Tai Chi Chuan practice as well, and try to practice both before moving into meditation. What I do wonder, though - if I'm in it for energy cultivation and enlightenement instead of the martial benefit, what would be a martial art that would be good for self defense then?

 

I am a black belt in TyKwando, but that was just sport - and it seems that it can be difficult to find a "good" teacher. So I'm cautious about what I try, and which dojo to approach. Would it be possible to recieve some advice on this topic?

 

Also, Tai Chi Chuan also seems to have a very strong relaxation focus, and seems to move energy around just fine, only, from what I read that sort of thing is taught much later on in other martial arts. Is there a fighting style I can join that will also focus on the energy applications early on, or do I need to wait it out? (Or figure it out on my own?)

My personal advice would be to be patient and let the 'energy applications' manifest naturally in their own time. Give your primary focus to building a good foundation of physical health, vitality, and fangsong (looseness and relaxation), this will be the 'launching pad' for the 'other stuff'.

 

[Mokona]

That makes sense. The more "Yin" techniques seem to indicate that things start happening on their ownsome. Quiet minds and relaxed movement, or even working in trance state. Those all seem to come back up and seem to almost be prequisites.

[riverheron]

i teach taiji because it is the next natural evolution of my own practice . . . a simple overflowing. If I may misquote someone or another;

 

"to know about something, study it.

to learn something, practice it.

to master something, teach it."

 

I like this . . . it seems whole and good.

[goldisheavy]

I understand that my spelling may be off, please don't be swayed I incoporate som QiGong into my Tai Chi Chuan practice as well, and try to practice both before moving into meditation. What I do wonder, though - if I'm in it for energy cultivation and enlightenement instead of the martial benefit, what would be a martial art that would be good for self defense then?

 

If you have a self that is in need of defending, you've already lost the fight. That's the pinnacle of the martial art right there. If you are fighting, you've lost. If you're not fighting, you've also lost.

 

Martial arts are not separate from enlightenment. They merge into it, and so do all other activities. And vice versa, enlightenment enlightens all activities. Had it not been so, it wouldn't be called "enlightenment".

 

If you want true martial prowess, what you need above all is a diverse group of crazy yet kind sparring partners. Nothing will replace that! They need to be crazy enough to be willing to hurt you a little bit, to be willing to hit you without pulling back, but also kind so that they hit you at 10% of their power. So it's not 90% of power plus pullback. It's 10% without the pullback. That's a difficult point to master! And they must be crazy also so that they give you something wild, something close to real life in sparring. If your sparring partners are not crazy enough, they'll give you predictable patterns that you'll become good against, but that won't teach you the truth. What you need is to know how to live through unpredictability. To do that you need good sparring partners.

 

Even if you don't study any art formally, but if you have a watchful, calm, observant, attentive, contemplative mind, and you have such sparring partners and spar regularly, you will become the grand master, no doubt about it.

 

You cannot become great at martial arts if all your fights are fake/pretentious/spots-like/gentlemanly, etc. At the same time, if someone rips your eyes out on your first fight, you can't master anything either. So it's a fine line to walk.

Edited April 8, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Mal]