I want to spend the rest of my life meditating and training in neikung

[Thunder_Gooch]

I've been this way now for more than 10 years. I've always been a hermit, and that isn't likely to change any time soon. I enjoy life best when I have lots of free time alone. Time to read, meditate and relax, and keep my house clean. Ah, sounds like heaven.

 

THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!?!?

 

How old are you? Do you think that perhaps in 20-30-40-50- years you will be the same person with the same goals!?

 

Please, if you are young try to keep your options open for your self, do not close ANY open doors that are now offered to you

 

By assuming that you will always want/need/expect to live what seems an ideal life with your current life view and perspective...you may trap your self in an "ideal" world that was not in your actual best interest as a seeker or just a human being - to become attached to...

 

Being a spiritual seeker/practitioner can become pretty escapist for some folks and that is just too bad, so be mindful of your real intentions and goals before closing off opportunities that will not be offered in the future.

 

In other words the life you describe seems more ideal for an old timer rather than a healthy choice for a young man...

 

but you may be ideally suited for it right now - meditate on this more would be my advice-

 

love to all-Pat

[fizix]

"Ah, sounds like heaven."

 

Sounds like inevitable implosion.

 

edit: albeit 20 maybe 30 years down the road, I guarantee you will eventually find that you sought the wrong answer to a neglected problem.

Edited April 8, 2009 by fizix

[goldisheavy]

Before I say anything else, first let me thank you for writing as you have. I honor your truth.

 

Gold,

I guess being myself means focusing on achieving liberation above all else, its like a battlefield and my objective is to win at all costs.

 

At all costs? Those are your words mate. Please remember them, because I will refer to these words of yours.

 

It seems to be pretty true to my character to pretend to be something I am not, if I thought being honest would jeopardize my chance of success.

 

Perhaps... but you know the bittersweet fruit of this and I'm not the one to tell you how it feels.

 

To be honest with you man I fail to see your point at all. Be yourself even if it means your own death, basically that's what I am taking away from your posts. Well lets assume being myself meant not being able to keep a job, home or out of a mental institution. My priority is liberation, and losing my home, my car, my job, and being locked away and drugged and having my brain fried with electricity doesn't really seem like a viable method for doing so.

 

Aye. You may need to be drugged. You may need to rot in a prison cell. How do you expect to transcend this world, to liberate yourself? Do you think you get a 10 billion dollar a year salary and nice homes and yachts and 72 virgins when you get liberated? Is that what you think?

 

Now, I am not saying you must become hospitalized or that you must rot in a prison cell. It's not a must. But concerns of bodily harm have to recede gradually as you step toward liberation. There is a fine line to walk between recklessly harming your body and fearing for its safety. On one hand, don't be concerned about the body at all. On the other hand, do not adopt a reckless attitude toward it either. This balance point takes years to understand. People tend to oscillate between too much love for the body and recklessness and self-sabotage. To become free you cannot afford either one of those extremes, at least, not until you reach the point of total wisdom realization. Which by the way, you will never reach by meditation alone. You need to contemplate, or else, your foolish idealized ideas about liberation will derail you.

 

I've got a little challenge for you, go up to a jerk ass cop that harasses the shit out of people and speak your mind. Tell him he is a fascist nazi pig, and deserves to have the shit beat out of him. See how far being openly yourself gets you. I don't think you could believe your way out of that one.

 

That's not how a warrior acts. When you approach a tiger, you know you can kill it instantly if you need to. But does that mean you go and start fucking around with every tiger that comes your way? No. You give it SOME respect, but not too much. You respect it in its raw form. You respect its ability to cause pain. But what you don't respect is its rule over you. You don't respect its legitimacy and its demands. You don't respect its ignorance in the sense of valuing it, but you respect its ignorance in the sense of appreciating its capacity for harm-causing. It's the same kind of respect that a naval man has for the ocean. You don't worship the ocean and you don't need to fear it either, but you need to understand its manifestation. This way you can subdue it and master it instead of becoming mastered by it.

 

When you bend convention, you must learn how to do it properly. Don't go too fast. Follow these two principles:

 

1. Use kindness.

 

2. Go slowly.

 

But bend it you must. You must begin giving your voice a role in reality. By your voice I don't mean what comes out of your mouth, but I mean the communication you extend via all your activities and even via your very presence. That is your true voice, and you MUST begin to let it out. Your voice is the divine Tiger God that will stand guard of your interests. Begin to train it now. If you let it out too much and too soon, your tiger cub will get killed by the roaming bear. But if you let it out judiciously, it will grow into a mighty and lordly tiger who will dominate all the bears fearlessly in due time.

 

What I suggest is a fine line between recklessness and slavery. Don't be a slave. Don't be reckless. Become a player in reality. Don't be the backseat driver. Become the driver of your own mind. Your own mind is the first and last battleground. You think your mind belongs to you right now? Ha! You couldn't be more wrong. But with training, with contemplation, with resolve it will become fully yours in due time.

 

I view the brain and the mind relationship like a candle and a flame. To be honest I do not know if damage sustained by the physical body also effects the spirit after death. From what I have experienced its my conjecture the spirit is itself still a biological entity.

 

This is a giant flaw in contemplation on your part. What you are espousing there is part of your problem. It's that view that binds you at the deepest level. As long as you maintain that view, meditating more will merely confirm and entrench you in that self-same view.

 

You see right now I am in my character. I honestly don't know how to interact with others and not be in character. I don't even know where to begin to do that. It's kind of like wanting to talk to people on the internet but not having a keyboard, mouse, microphone, or any other form of input device. If I want to communicate with you I need to have a character to do the communicating.

 

You don't need a character, but that's a realization that's out of reach for you. So let's say you need a character. Well, you got one and you don't like it. How do you deal with it? You change it!

 

What holds the old character in place is your belief structure, on which the value system is based. And sometimes it goes the other way around, sometimes values underlie belief structures.

 

So your task is to examine the old values and beliefs that no longer serve you and find out precisely how it is they no longer serve you. Then examine NEW values and NEW beliefs that seem kind of iffy yet attractive to you, and see how those might serve you better. As you continue this review process over the course of years, your personality will begin to change toward a new version of you that you will like much better.

 

You need to understand the nature of the chain if you are to cut it. If you seek liberation, then understand what gives you the sensation of spiritual suffocation. To do that, you need to consciously approach the feeling of suffocation and reflect on it. Possibly for years. Possibly for decades. Possibly for lifetimes.

 

I guess I am just frustrated. My ideal lifestyle is doing as I please with no commitments to employers, or society. That would not be possible without winning some huge lottery or finding someone else to both support me completely and leave me alone. All of which are highly unlikely.

 

It's possible to live as you wish. What you need are the following:

 

- New Skills (in particular, you need to know wilderness survival, and you need to know how to hack the social system, in other words, how to look at the social system as a hunter-gatherer instead of as a slavish participant.)

 

- New values.

 

- New beliefs.

 

- Tenacious Resolve.

 

And all those elements are yours if you want them. You don't have to exit the social structure completely, but you will need to be able to move in and out of it freely, to get a breather. What it means to move in and out depends on your wisdom. If you were wiser, it'd be enough to know how to move around your own mind. In your current state you may need to learn something more elaborate because you don't really understand the powerful role of the mind yet.

 

My next ideal lifestyle would involve finding somewhere I could live alone, and afford working 2 days each week or less.

 

There are guys on the internet who write blogs about this. It's possible. It's called frugal living, and if you're willing to make adjustments, you can do it. You can join a carnival. Work your ass off in season, and have lots of free time off-season. You can become a teacher. Huge headache and bureaucracy during the school year, but then you have all those breaks! You get summer and 3 other breaks! Hard to beat that in terms of free time.

 

What I have right now involves working mon-friday spending most of my pay on stupid expenses beyond my control, and saving the rest in hopes maybe one day many many years from now I can afford to buy land, build a home, and become mostly self sufficient, at which point I will have about 1/3 of my life left (maybe if I am lucky) to pursue my real priorities. This may be my only realistic option, but God Dammit Man! I don't want to be and old man by the time I really have the means to get serious about my practice.

 

You can't wait that long. You need to learn how to integrate your practice into day to day life and how to make life your liberation laboratory. Include all beings around you into your liberation! Don't separate unless separation is what you specifically want for its own sake.

Edited April 8, 2009 by goldisheavy

[forestofsouls]

Do you seriously think that you can have a chance at resolving the great matter of birth and death when you cannot resolve the small problem of suffering ordinary existence?

 

Monasteries are for wimps.

 

My goal is stopping the death and rebirth cycle. I am motivated by dissatisfaction.

[goldisheavy]

Do you seriously think that you can have a chance at resolving the great matter of birth and death when you cannot resolve the small problem of suffering ordinary existence?

 

Monasteries are for wimps.

 

I don't know. I've known some idiot monks and some outstanding monks whom I do not hesitate to put on top of my head.

 

I think the monastic path is a legitimate path but I don't think it's THE path. Anything can be seen as wimpy. Being a householder can be seen as wimpy. Smoking habit can be seen as wimpy. Avoiding smoking can be seen as wimpy. Having no physical strength can be seen as wimpy. Having and relying on much physical strength can be seen as wimpy. Doing drugs can be seen as wimpy. Quitting doing drugs can be seen as wimpy. Sticking a fork in your eye can be seen as wimpy. Avoiding sticking a fork in your eye can be seen as wimpy. Avoiding disease can be seen as wimpy. Having disease can be seen as wimpy.

 

I hope you get the point.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

In order to loose, you must first learn to have the courage to gain, and then have the courage to give up all. As most taoist do follow this path in the past and now are those who ascended and who we worshipped.

[Wayfarer64]

I don't know. I've known some idiot monks and some outstanding monks whom I do not hesitate to put on top of my head.

 

I think the monastic path is a legitimate path but I don't think it's THE path. Anything can be seen as wimpy. Being a householder can be seen as wimpy. Smoking habit can be seen as wimpy. Avoiding smoking can be seen as wimpy. Having no physical strength can be seen as wimpy. Having and relying on much physical strength can be seen as wimpy. Doing drugs can be seen as wimpy. Quitting doing drugs can be seen as wimpy. Sticking a fork in your eye can be seen as wimpy. Avoiding sticking a fork in your eye can be seen as wimpy. Avoiding disease can be seen as wimpy. Having disease can be seen as wimpy.

 

I hope you get the point.

 

 

Hey Man, why you gots to pick on wimpy for?

All he wants is a burger today that he'll pay for Tuesday...

[forestofsouls]

If the point is allow the chatter to arise and fall away, then yes.

 

I hope you get the point.

[goldisheavy]

If the point is allow the chatter to arise and fall away, then yes.

 

Another way to see the point is to look up at the sky through the straw.

[Prince...]

Outside of China I can't recommend anyone. Not to say there aren't good teachers elsewhere, but that I haven't met any.

 

This raises an interesting point...anyone have any experiences with any teachers on this list? (besides Mantak Chia) I know one of them, but I am not his student and have never studied with him...just wanted to make that clarification.

 

http://www.daoistcenter.org/teachers.pdf

 

Anyway, if living the life as a hermit is what you feel is your calling, I say go for it, see if it works for you. I practice a form of Christian cultivation. It does not make much sense to me right now because all of the books are pretty heavy, but it's interesting to get a new spin on stuff I've studied in the Gospels.

 

I wanted to live a life that allowed me to practice some type of cultivation-- I guess I'm lucky to live in a place that considers itself a Christian nation in that it allows me to fly both above and below the radar. I am going to Seminary to become a Pastor. My school of cultivation does not advocate monastic life or living as a hermit. Actually, our goal is to attain siddhis to benefit humanity. I guess it would be like a buddhist who's goal is to become a bodhisattva. Of course the initial goal is to understand the ego, so that one does not misuse anything gained through their practices.

 

For me, it works. I enjoy having conversations about spiritual things. I grew up in the Church, but I don't tell people they will go to Hell outside of the Church. Yes, there are things I have to adhere to...dogmas, rules, and policies passed down from my denominational affiliation, but what is important to me is that people seek something more fulfilling than just pleasing the base desires.

 

So this is my story, I guess...sorry for messing up your thread! But yes, I want to spend the rest of my life meditating and cultivating. For me, the way to accomplish this is to become a minister. I get to help people, I get to console people in need of a friend, and I get to work with young people--all things I enjoy. I get to teach, although I don't claim to know much. I get to study. I meditate, I do exercises that are similiar to qigong--well it's breathing exercises, so I guess it is qigong! I'm not currently studying martial arts, but I will resume when I finish school.

 

What is important is that you find the best way to accomplish this--some days people get on my nerves, other days I love having people around me. I'm no guru when it comes to meditation, but I think as you progress with your practice, you will come to have some compassion for those folks that annoy the hell out of you right now. Good luck with what you're trying to do!

[Thunder_Gooch]

This raises an interesting point...anyone have any experiences with any teachers on this list? (besides Mantak Chia) I know one of them, but I am not his student and have never studied with him...just wanted to make that clarification.

 

http://www.daoistcenter.org/teachers.pdf

 

Anyway, if living the life as a hermit is what you feel is your calling, I say go for it, see if it works for you. I practice a form of Christian cultivation. It does not make much sense to me right now because all of the books are pretty heavy, but it's interesting to get a new spin on stuff I've studied in the Gospels.

 

I wanted to live a life that allowed me to practice some type of cultivation-- I guess I'm lucky to live in a place that considers itself a Christian nation in that it allows me to fly both above and below the radar. I am going to Seminary to become a Pastor. My school of cultivation does not advocate monastic life or living as a hermit. Actually, our goal is to attain siddhis to benefit humanity. I guess it would be like a buddhist who's goal is to become a bodhisattva. Of course the initial goal is to understand the ego, so that one does not misuse anything gained through their practices.

 

For me, it works. I enjoy having conversations about spiritual things. I grew up in the Church, but I don't tell people they will go to Hell outside of the Church. Yes, there are things I have to adhere to...dogmas, rules, and policies passed down from my denominational affiliation, but what is important to me is that people seek something more fulfilling than just pleasing the base desires.

 

So this is my story, I guess...sorry for messing up your thread! But yes, I want to spend the rest of my life meditating and cultivating. For me, the way to accomplish this is to become a minister. I get to help people, I get to console people in need of a friend, and I get to work with young people--all things I enjoy. I get to teach, although I don't claim to know much. I get to study. I meditate, I do exercises that are similiar to qigong--well it's breathing exercises, so I guess it is qigong! I'm not currently studying martial arts, but I will resume when I finish school.

 

What is important is that you find the best way to accomplish this--some days people get on my nerves, other days I love having people around me. I'm no guru when it comes to meditation, but I think as you progress with your practice, you will come to have some compassion for those folks that annoy the hell out of you right now. Good luck with what you're trying to do!

 

Prince,

 

In all honesty your the first Christian I've ever met that sounds like a Christian. I mean that as a compliment.

 

 

 

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

Mohandas Gandhi

[Ya Mu]

This raises an interesting point...anyone have any experiences with any teachers on this list? (besides Mantak Chia) I know one of them, but I am not his student and have never studied with him...just wanted to make that clarification.

 

http://www.daoistcenter.org/teachers.pdf

 

 

I know or have met several of these guys. Thoughts as I read your list: study with Ken if you want the Scholarly side of things; Ken is an excellent Scholar and a nice guy, study with Kumar if you want the MA side of things, Kumar is an excellent Martial Artist, some folks don't like his attitude but I like him, study with Bill if you want to learn a very powerful Tui Na form, Bill is a nice guy, he used to offer (hope he still does) a 2 week tui-na training. Chia is a scholar as well, don't know him but don't like the fact he originally released material from his scholarly studies as fact. M. Rinaldini have met but don't know much about him except that one of my students went through his program before going through mine and said he was a really good guy. Winn is a nice guy, I like him but he is really "out there" (the same could be said for me); I agree with a lot as well as disagree with a lot of his stuff. Jeffery, I believe I met him at a conference, don't know him but he has a good reputation. Chunyi Lin, attended a seminar he did, he seems very knowledgeable and has a real reputation. T.K. Shih has a reputation, I personally didn't agree with his form of teaching; I don't know if he still does this, but he used to have one of those make-you-into-a-master-in-a-couple-of-weeks things. He was very stoic, his daughter Melanie (I think is her name) was much nicer and knows tons of stuff. Solala is a really nice guy, fun to be around, knows lots about sounds.

Don't know the others in your list.

 

Also, don't think that list has all the qualified teachers, it doesn't.

[Prince...]

Prince,

 

In all honesty your the first Christian I've ever met that sounds like a Christian. I mean that as a compliment.

 

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

Mohandas Gandhi

 

Thanks for your compliment, but this makes me sad that my community is failing people everyday.

[Encephalon]

I share your longings, no question about it. Unfortunately, if you don't possess either the financial wherewithall or the survival skills necessary to stay alive in uninhabitated mountain ranges, you're probably not going to pull this off.

My advice is either 1. sell about 3 screenplays and head for BC, or 2. read this - http://www.amazon.com/Emergency-This-Book-...e/dp/0060898771

 

and then go to http://www.nols.edu/

 

and take as many classes in outdoor/wilderness survival as you can, and then you might be ready.

 

However, if you do acquire the abilities of SurvivorMan/Rambo/Medic-FirstResponse, you will paradoxically open your mind and heart to those that truly require your assistance in life and death moments, and you may think twice about pulling a disappearing act on humanity.

 

Competent folk have never been in greater demand. Be useful.

[11:33]

This was a great thread full off great perspectives. Loved it.

[Brother K]

I agree with everything you said and want. I myself feel this same way.I have decided to take to the road for this release from society. It has proven to be the most amazing, enlightening experience of my whole life. I think you should decide what you want and do it. I have yet to practice Neikung at all, but do practice a lot of traditional Pranayama yoga.

The two things that helped me realize how to achieve my life on my own terms which is what it sounds like you want too, am I right? Are the following two books:

http://www.amazon.com/Vagabonding-Uncommon.../dp/0812992180/

http://www.amazon.com/4-Hour-Workweek-Esca.../dp/0307353133/

 

I think Vagabonding is required reading for anyone who is thinking about beginning this path in earnest. If you don't just want to talk about it, but actually do it. Get that book and read it cover to cover. Most libraries have it if you do not want to purchase it. Also I advise the study of lightweight backpacking, and reading Walden.

I do agree with some of the above. I think the answer is sooner or later to go to Asia. I myself and going to spend sometime walking in Spain and then head off to South East Asia for an extended period of time.

 

Keep me posted on your progress I am always interested in how this life works out for other people also.

[youzifive]

Try to understand "FA","CAI", "LU" "DI" in Chinese with a good Master.

Otherwise, it looks very hard for you to run your plans.

Dear Taobums,

 

I am looking to spend the rest of my life with as little real world responsibility as is humanly possible. I want a nice place where I can meditate and not be bothered. I don't mind holding down a part time weekend job, or even working double shifts on weekends.

 

Are there any communities which would be supportive of this lifestyle. I only own some books, a car and a laptop, and my clothes and personal belongings. Everything I own fits nicely in my trunk. I've tried living out of my car, and thats not so bad. However it becomes problematic, when it breaks down.

 

I've tried renting rooms from people but that also doesn't seem to work out so well, with all the drama and such.

 

I welcome your ideas.

 

-mpg

[11:33]

Try to understand "FA","CAI", "LU" "DI" in Chinese with a good Master.

 

Hello youzifive,

 

I wonder if you could describe for us, what do those words mean in English?

 

All the Best,

Alex

[youzifive]

Try to read through "Opening Dragon gate .." I think there is only a lack of "CAI" ( Fortune) in it.

 

Hello youzifive,

 

I wonder if you could describe for us, what do those words mean in English?

 

All the Best,

Alex