Mo Pai and Dragon Gate?

[Seth Ananda]

Hi every one. I am sorry if this has already been covered else where.

 

Are they The same or Similar Techniques?

John Chang and Wang Liping seem to me to be probably the most respected Masters at TTB's and their systems seem to be considered 'guaranteed learning' (if you put in the work).

Are the schools open to westerners?

If they are different, has anyone here studied both?

Are there dodgy or fraudulent teachers to avoid?..

 

I have read many conflicting reports on the subject over the last year here.

 

Thanks everyone

[Spirit Ape]

Well both meditation systems start with emptiness to activate the dan tian or in some cases filling it!!!

[松永道]

Another thing they have in common is both schools are not teaching the Dan Dao. That is the way to achieve Dao through neigong.

 

I don't know about Mo Pai, but Wang Liping will not be teaching anyone his complete system of neigong, at least not publicly and up until this time not privately either. He has, however, taught parts of the system that are very useful.

[Vajrasattva]

peace

Edited April 17, 2009 by Vajrasattva

[Spirit Ape]

Hi Vaj,

 

How long does it take to fill the dan tians?

 

Ape

[Vajrasattva]

Hi Vaj,

 

How long does it take to fill the dan tians?

 

Ape

 

depends on what you want to do.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Vajrasattva

[Kronos]

Are the schools open to westerners?

 

Longmen Pai is open to westerners: You can write me a PM if you want join a retreat with Qin Ling (Germany - July 2009) or with Wang Liping (China - August 2009).

Mo Pai is not open to everyone: but there are some people teaching Level 1. You should ask one of them.

 

If they are different, has anyone here studied both?

 

yes there are a few as far as I know.

 

Kindest

 

kronos

[Gerard]

.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Gerard

[Vajrasattva]

Good point and well put.

 

How could you fill up Samsara?

 

The "tantiens" are just the doors between worlds. Yin and Yang passages.

 

 

 

to me they are "constructs" like the matrix

 

& also they are Manifestation pools.

[Dreamingawake]

A lot of this is in KAP & In Ilmu Kebatinan training.

 

Infact after dealing with a few Mopai folks I can tell you for sure Kap& Tenaga training is safer and yet same effects.

 

Mopai is similar to our KAP tummo training , 5 gate breath work & Pak Muhammad's Juru Training

 

we both work in KAP & Tenaga Dalam to fill the 1st & 2nd dan tien. This is taught in our tummo.

 

With out proper rooting or secret smile you are asking to hurt yourself with Mopai stuff.

 

Peace

 

santi

 

just curious, do you have electric-like qi, pyrokinesis, and other abilities of pak john or you just mean same effect for filling dan tien?

I wouldn't say 'same' effect though. I hear mo-pai can take a year or more to fill dantien so much shorter time-line

[Vajrasattva]

just curious, do you have electric-like qi, pyrokinesis, and other abilities of pak john or you just mean same effect for filling dan tien?

I wouldn't say 'same' effect though. I hear mo-pai can take a year or more to fill dantien so much shorter time-line

 

 

 

Some folks have said my chi is either Hot or Electric. Some folks have actually been shocked by it. I do not "try" I simply pump the juice out. It comes out as the Universe wants it to come out.

 

Many of my students have now better health and some even look younger, Some of my female students now have bigger breasts some male students ahve also reported more "girth" (This is always a +) and families are doing better. This to me is what matters.

 

Can it Cure things? Can it make people better ? This is What I look for.

 

I have made people Nauseas using it in Martial Contexts and I have also made people Ill, this is a side effect and not always welcomed karmically.

 

My main priority with all this stuff is to help others be better and harmonious with God, Nature & society.

 

Mopai isn't exactly that.

 

It's for hermits. Its dangerous due to the fact that

1) things are NOT explained.

2) there is very little "Saftey" in the system.

 

This is why many had heart attacks and got sick.

 

As for CHI:

 

Glenn's Chi was very Electric & watery. It also made things manifest. And in some cases gave you addictive laughter or Bliss.

 

Pak Muhammad definitely Burns or Shocks you & makes you want to get closer to God.

 

My Chi tends to be HOT or Electric for people. Some report it makes their energy Spiral, some say I appear to them in dreams and in present time, Some say it has shocked them. They usually say this about Pak, Glenn & Myself. I just pump the juice out.

 

I let it do what the Universe/Shakti wants.

 

Peace

 

Santi

Edited April 17, 2009 by Vajrasattva

[Vajrasattva]

Other People I know who have JUICE in the USA are

 

Tao Semko (Very Intuitive, great healer and very much a true YOGI SAGE).

 

Another student of mine Andrea Maitland she tends to run Nuclear hot. She is proof of real tummo & a great energy healer. And her chi tends to be a "Zap" or a Buzz. People around her tend to get a "high".

 

Soke Rob Williams ( he runs ICE COLD YIN chi).

Shihan James Alexander (He runs Very HOT & "zing" chi)

 

Sifu Dan Ferrera (Very good healer, intuitive, & Great Chi Kung Nei Kung Teacher. His chi can "speak" & also his chi seems to amplify and make you want to "engineer" yours better. Also his tends to run in Rainbow like fashion. He was a student of Lar Short & Sensei Niakkura but i can assure you a master in his own right.

 

Lar Short is another cat with GOOD JUICE.

 

 

Dr. Porter (His Chi is very "CEREBRAL")

 

also VERY BLUE.

 

Sensei Niakkura - He is to me the "CHI SAMURAI".

: )

 

 

Guru Cliff - Good Chi for Martial Context & Knocking folks out.

As for Glenn he was able to "make" things appear (Visions, animals, Ninja, Samurai, Spirits etc)

 

In the UK you have Sifu Alex Kozma, Guru Pak Muhammad, Guru Simon Das.

All have extraordinary things about them in terms of CHI.

 

Hard to put in to words i am just going by things I have felt.

 

There are a lot of good people out there and they "HAVE IT".

 

Peace

 

Santiago

Edited April 6, 2009 by Vajrasattva

[Edward M]

Hi Santi!

 

it'sme from silat.tv and facebook...edward metcalfe..

 

just a quick question concerning qi in individuals.. does the way you gain it influence it manifestation?

 

for example would doing taijiquan make for a soft yin qi...whereas silat or xingyi would they make a hot fiery qi?

 

The kerbatin...i learned a bit from k and simon das, well one exercise which iam not allowed to describe in public but i heard that bassically the exercises are designed to take energy out of the system and let God put in what he feels best, although i heard that from someone else who trains with a different teacher. I certainly feel a opening in my lower back when ido this exercise..

 

I think it's the first one from the cimande system...

 

sorry i'm not to clear with this post, justr spent five hours heaving furniture around lol!

 

peace

Ed

[Vajrasattva]

Hi Santi!

 

it'sme from silat.tv and facebook...edward metcalfe..

 

just a quick question concerning qi in individuals.. does the way you gain it influence it manifestation?

 

for example would doing taijiquan make for a soft yin qi...whereas silat or xingyi would they make a hot fiery qi?

 

The kerbatin...i learned a bit from k and simon das, well one exercise which iam not allowed to describe in public but i heard that bassically the exercises are designed to take energy out of the system and let God put in what he feels best, although i heard that from someone else who trains with a different teacher. I certainly feel a opening in my lower back when ido this exercise..

 

I think it's the first one from the cimande system...

 

sorry i'm not to clear with this post, justr spent five hours heaving furniture around lol!

 

peace

Ed

 

Salams Ed!

 

Some arts and Teachers tend to "express" certain principles more than others.

 

In internal MA you have 3 main things

 

1) Fortifying Center (Xing Yi)

2) Moving Center (Bagua)

3) Dissolving Center (Tai Ji)

 

& the 5 elements

 

Most MA systems focus on either just one or the other. The good ones have all three + a form of the 5 elements (Silat & Other forms of good Internal Chinese systems, Ninpo)

 

In S.I.L.A.T you have something different however and that is the "Ilmu Kebatinan"

Where one is learning to access their "True SELF". Some use Invocations to access Archangels, Others use sacred names of GOD/ALLAH. People will not believe BUT This stuff goes way BACK the Prophets of old form the Middle east it is probably the same stuff Moses used to part waters, Solomon's magic to harness any spirit /Jinn or Demon etc, Enoch also the same "mojo" that gave Muhammad p.b.u.h. the ability to go in to battle in the FRONT LINE and fight and defend his people with out a scratch or scar.

 

Ilmu is not to be mis treated lightly nor USED for wrong reasons. It is STRICT that one must be pious to God & Devote one self to humility & service towards the Creator, Earth & Humanity.

 

You also can not ACT out of anger.

 

Ultimately you become a "clear" vessle so ALLAH can move you as you need to be moved to defend yourself against the Seen & the UNSEEN.

 

It is very Clear, Simple & Direct.

 

There are methods where you learn to (these things really remind me of Bon po aswell which leads me to thinj its all the same from the "old Persians")

 

1) take the energy out of what ever you will.

2) Raise a huge force of Unseen Protectors

3) Bilocate or duplicate a body of light to help someone in need (Please read about Sheik Al Qadir Jilani. He was very ABLE to do this.) Some of my students have "seen" Pak Muhammad in the USA in dreams, and in real time.

4)Download any info or knowledge you need to evolve grow etc. (this is also a siddhi that happens from guru yoga in tibetan practices. Its all to similar)

 

Glenn Morris although not a "sufi" by training per say had this aswell. He was in the theory that all the paths are the same in the upper levels.

 

5)From the Psy Self defense & Healing methods you can do all sorts of incredible things too many to list.

 

But it all comes down to you do not DO anything GOD does. and most can not allow their heads around that one.

 

 

I have personally touched hands with Guru Simon & K Both have great energy and good abilities. Simon is a humble cat but way beyond his years in knowlegde and ability.

 

I think the technique you speak of is what I am thinking of aswell

"you are just the puppet that GOD is moving as he wills"

 

Peace

 

Santi

[Edward M]

Sallams Santi,

 

Thanks that was a great post!

 

Yes k and si are both great at silat and have good energy....as does Pak Muhammad,, I have met him once and he seemed very kind and gentle.

 

I agree about kerbatin being used in olden times, but I have to say through personal experience that pure faith and self control can produce miracles....although i suppose faith and self-control probably put you in touch with the same energy, so .....

 

If your intention using these exercises is good, but yet you fail in your intentions, is it then unwise to carry on practising it...or the intention is the most important part?

 

Thanks again, i'm sorry I can't write asmuch as you did, I have very little knowledge at this stage.

 

yea i got the same feeling we thinkingof the same exercise

 

peace

 

Ed

[Dreamingawake]

When is the last time you spoke with a Mopai practitioner or actually met one?

 

I was just with one about 3 weeks ago. And I have friends that are former Mopai one is actually training with me now long distance this is why I can verify my experiences.

 

Some folks have said my chi is either Hot or Electric. Some folks have actually been shocked by it. I do not "try" I simply pump the juice out. It comes out as the Universe wants it to come out.

 

Many of my students have now better health and some even look younger, Some of my female students now have bigger breasts some male students ahve also reported more "girth" (This is always a +) and families are doing better. This to me is what matters.

 

Can it Cure things? Can it make people better ? This is What I look for.

 

I have made people Nauseas using it in Martial Contexts and I have also made people Ill, this is a side effect and not always welcomed karmically.

 

My main priority with all this stuff is to help others be better and harmonious with God, Nature & society.

 

Mopai isn't exactly that.

 

It's for hermits. Its dangerous due to the fact that

1) things are NOT explained.

2) there is very little "Saftey" in the system.

 

This is why many had heart attacks and got sick.

 

As for CHI:

 

Glenn's Chi was very Electric & watery. It also made things manifest. And in some cases gave you addictive laughter or Bliss.

 

Pak Muhammad definitely Burns or Shocks you & makes you want to get closer to God.

 

My Chi tends to be HOT or Electric for people. Some report it makes their energy Spiral, some say I appear to them in dreams and in present time, Some say it has shocked them. They usually say this about Pak, Glenn & Myself. I just pump the juice out.

 

I let it do what the Universe/Shakti wants.

 

Peace

 

Santi

 

cool no big deal I was just curious my understanding is still limited so I have to ask

[Adam West]

H Vaj!

 

Could you elaborate on your understanding of Ilmu Kebatinan training? What is it exactly? What is its short and long term goals? How does it achieve them - practice wise i.e. breath work, mantra, dan tien etc? How does it differ from gtummo? And in what context do you teach it part of a larger system of practice? Do you teach that as well? I am very interested in Sufi practices, how does this relate?

 

Many thanks!

 

In kind regards,

 

Adam.

[Vajrasattva]

H Vaj!

 

Could you elaborate on your understanding of Ilmu Kebatinan training? What is it exactly? What is its short and long term goals? How does it achieve them - practice wise i.e. breath work, mantra, dan tien etc? How does it differ from gtummo? And in what context do you teach it part of a larger system of practice? Do you teach that as well? I am very interested in Sufi practices, how does this relate?

 

Many thanks!

 

In kind regards,

 

Adam.

 

 

it works on filling the 3 dan tiens, connecting yourself to your spiritual heart & also awakening your true "Inner Self" or Inner Power.

 

It is very similar to tummo & KAP which is why i caught on quick and have permission to elaborate things to people as I see fit. My Kap students get the "Basic" of tenaga Dalam as they are doing Tummo in KAP (Its the same thing at that stage).

My silat Students get more of the Ilmu training since its part of the Cimande Curriculum.But Kap psy defense course has a lot of it as does kap 3.

 

It is also very similar to good Nei Kung /Chi kug , Trul Khor & Kriya Yoga.

 

It is usualy reserved in Indonesia or malaysia for muslims. Pak told me i can teach anyone who has a good heart & believes in God.

 

This is a MUST and a strict code. Other wise this stuff can be VERY dangerous & in some cases simply wont work.

 

The mantras empolyed are "Zikrs" sacred names of God to invoke his powers & Attributes. These are in Arabic. Some are verses of the Quran others are just part of Allah's 99 names.

 

each one has to do with invoking Arch Angels & numerological codes etc. They each involve mysteries on their own.

 

For example one name of the creator may be bringing to you various angels at a time to help you do what ever it is you are looking to do.

 

Each has its own attribute and "power" & "Essence".

 

there are aspects for :

 

1) Fighting

2) Healing

3) Empowering

4) Spiritual union with God

 

hope this helps

 

peace& God bless

 

Santi

[Kronos]

btt on ttb pls

[Gaxtal]

depends on what you want to do.

 

generally after 2 weeks of practice its getting "full"

 

But truthfully its "boundless" with in the dan tiens and its "universal"

 

so you can never really fully "Fill it" completely. It will give you a "full" feeling but there is always room to train more etc.

 

Its endless as to how much energy can go in there.

Usually I make students do 2 weeks of tummo breath to establish a nice dan tien & Inner heat.

Also once you have "JUICE"

you can fill up almost instantaneously.

 

I taught some folks here Tummo/tenaga Dalam and some disregarded it cause

 

1) I am not Chinese or Tibetan or indonesian, I do not wear a robe etc.

2) they are seeking power, too much ego.

3) I do not charge $3000 - $10,000 for it

 

But those that have been sincere have gotten results.

 

And I CAN assure you our KAP Tummo & The ilmu Kebatinan Tenaga Dalam Pak Muhammad taught me VERY similar to Mopai. But our goal is not power. just more juice for healing & Martial psy self defense. Its a lot safer.

Peace

 

S

 

 

What is the "material" you use to fill in your Dan Tien ? Do you need 3 Dan to fill in your 3 Dan Tian ? KAP just use 2 weeks to establish a nice dan tien ! How amazing and quick !!

 

Please don't borrow the true traditional Daoist concept to "FILL IN" your artificial "CHI" !!

[Vajrasattva]

What is the "material" you use to fill in your Dan Tien ? Do you need 3 Dan to fill in your 3 Dan Tian ? KAP just use 2 weeks to establish a nice dan tien ! How amazing and quick !!

 

Please don't borrow the true traditional Daoist concept to "FILL IN" your artificial "CHI" !!

 

 

Blah Blah Blah

 

Please continue to borrow true traditional Daoist concept from ACTUAL UNIVERSAL TRUTHS that have been around for AEONS.

[goldisheavy]

to me they are "constructs" like the matrix

 

& also they are Manifestation pools.

 

They are anything you want them to be. This is why if you understand this principle, it's often better to use more convenient and handier constructs than the traditional ones. A lot of burden gets placed on traditional spiritual constructs, burden which they were never designed to handle in the first place.

 

Tradition is part of our information field and we cannot ignore it. At the same time, there is no way to enter liberation by following tradition to the letter without being even the least bit creative.

Edited April 8, 2009 by goldisheavy