Kunlun follow up poll

[Trunk]

I want to clear up something about the "lineage" statements. I want to make it clear that the spontaneous chi kung is NOT part of the Lum lineage. Max has integrated at least two different lineages into what he calls "kunlun."

In this thread we are not using the word "lineage" to say where the information came from, not referring to the earthly lineage of teacher~student associations. We are using the term "lineage", here, to identify the spiritual (non-physical) beings that someone hangs out with. The methods could've come from anywhere. Not necesarily the same.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Trunk

[joeblast]

It seems to me that what is missing here is the ability of individuals to take control of their unconscious.

[fiveelementtao]

In this thread we are not using the word "lineage" to say where the information came from, nor to refer to the earthly lineage of teacher~student associations. We are using the term lineage, here, to identify the spiritual (non-physical) beings that someone hangs out with. The methods could've come from anywhere. Not necesarily the same.

I understand the current context, but many reading this may not...

[Aetherous]

In this thread we are not using the word "lineage" to say where the information came from, nor to refer to the earthly lineage of teacher~student associations. We are using the term lineage, here, to identify the spiritual (non-physical) beings that someone hangs out with. The methods could've come from anywhere. Not necesarily the same.

 

Interesting. I always thought it meant where the information came from.

 

Not saying that sarcastically. Just pointing out that I learned something here.

[sahaj]

Koonloonie since feb 08

I hardly post here, more in the kunlunforum, where you can follow my whole story.

Im a digger, always going deeper and deeper. Was never afraid of how weird things could get. My whole practice is spontaneous never forced anything or try extra stuff cause all has always come alone. Fron K1, jumped to K2 doing up to 18 reps...ooops there goes my sword finger again, K3 as a closing method, reverse breathing, sah breath. RP1-2-3 have mix in between as part of everything. So I have my own sort of Kunlun soup that has developed to a very interesting practice, seeing visions, automatic writing, contacting higher beings, nice I love all this stuff.

 

Been doing a lot of homework, about zen crazyness, spiritual guides, awakening effects, magic practices, talking to highly gifted people, searching, searching for the truth...to have the objectivity and the rational knowledge about this stuff, since all I have is the experience....ok, now am downloading directly from my source... amazing info!!!

 

So much of our upbringing, believes, fears etc influences our development, so we create it ourselves, Maxs sparks it up, the path is ours to choose

 

 

Zahore,

Thanks for jumping in from the exclusive Kunlun forum . I really appreciate the posts from people that are practicing.

[Yoda]

I'm fine to be thought of as a completely delusional drama queen and I fervently hope that is how it is.

 

Yoda

[mgd]

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Edited April 13, 2009 by mgd

[AugustLeo]

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[mgd]

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Edited April 13, 2009 by mgd

[三江源]

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Edited July 21, 2014 by cat

[AugustLeo]

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[fiveelementtao]

I'm fine to be thought of as a completely delusional drama queen and I fervently hope and pray that is how it is.

 

Yoda

 

Master Jedi,

I apologize if I came across as attacking you. I can seem aggressive sometimes. That is my warrior nature and I am working on it. That is not my aim. It is not my desire to classify you as

a completely delusional drama queen

I do not doubt your experiences. I disagree with your possible conclusions.

In the book, "Opening the Dragon Gate" Master Wang Liping shares about these things

P. 165 "there are six main lines of inner work in the human body. The plumb line from the top of the head to genital region was termed... 'The Line of Severance'. When people who practice inner work without the guidance of an enlightened master easily produce distortion, it comes out in this line; when they get fired up and become demonic, that too comes out in this line.

and later

from pg 259

"... three hundred students sat cross legged... with Master Wang Liping... leading them along with his power... All of a sudden these three hundred students started swaying uncontrollably... They shook even more intensley some swayd backward and forward. Some tossed their hands out in rapid movements, some beat their chests, some made graceful dance gestures, some made rapid series of gestures with their hands. Like experts at sign language. All of a sudden some started to wail sorrowfully while others to laugh crazily... when they were done, the students clamored to have Master Wang Liping explain what had happened...The first vehicel is called the random array... the power is allowed to flow spontaneously. Wild wailing and laughing, gesticulating and dancing, all sorts of strange behaviour may come out in those affected. The main purpose begind this is for the one doing the empowering to use this format to observe the nature, chracter, mentality and flaws of the affected individuals. But it does not take a highly advanced individual to produce the random array...

pg 261...Finally Master Wang Liping explained that when spontaneous movements of the body occur during practice, this means ENERGY IS IN FRONT AND SPIRIT IS BEHIND; SPIRIT GOES ALONG WITH ENERGY SO ONE'S BODY HAS NO MASTER. The practitioner should make the self the ruler, turning external movement into internal movement, examining the minute extremely subtle changes within the body in the midst of clear quietude... Gathering medicine is movement. Obtaining Medicine is stillness."

 

The point I am trying to make is that the spontaneous movement has been highly over emphasized and detached from it's original purpose. Many in Kunlun gave up their control in order to have these blissful experiences not fully understanding that the purpose of the spontaneous movement is to reveal what is in the subconscious so that the person can effectively face and transform it through controlled stillness meditation. This is why people are having crazy incontrolled "negative" experiences. If it is indeed attracting negative entities, they are merely responding to the fact the the individual is using the spontaneous movement to give up control of their bodies.

Kunlun has 3 phases. The first is the spontaneous, the other two are also necessary.

 

Some may make the argumant that Max did not explain or make himself available to help. But ultimately the responsibility resides with each of us....

Edited April 9, 2009 by fiveelementtao

[Yoda]

Michael is right: I haven't the foggiest clue as to what his practice life looks like. From what I can tell, it has been highly focused, disciplined, and efficacious.

[gendao]

The point I am trying to make is that the spontaneous movement has been highly over emphasized and detached from it's original purpose. Many in Kunlun gave up their control in order to have these blissful experiences not fully understanding that the purpose of the spontaneous movement is to reveal what is in the subconscious so that the person can effectively face and transform it through controlled stillness meditation. This is why people are having crazy incontrolled "negative" experiences. If it is indeed attracting negative entities, they are merely responding to the fact the the individual is using the spontaneous movement to give up control of their bodies.

Kunlun has 3 phases. The first is the spontaneous, the other two are also necessary.

Yes, and actually Max does teach that kriyas are not the goal, just purification. Later on, you can internalize it more and then feel even less as you go into the void...

 

Anyhow, nice quote from WLP to help put things into a bigger context. I remember reading that passage, too.

Edited April 9, 2009 by vortex

[mgd]

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Edited April 13, 2009 by mgd

[AugustLeo]

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[Yoda]

5ET,

 

No need for apology... your thoughts are excellent and it's quite possible that you are 100% right... As we say in the South, I'm definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Guest winpro07]

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Edited April 11, 2009 by winpro07

[mgd]

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Edited April 13, 2009 by mgd

[Guest winpro07]

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Edited April 10, 2009 by winpro07

[fiveelementtao]

 

WHAT IS MAX RESPONSIBLE FOR?

 

 

This is a very good question. I am not trying to take any responsibility from the teacher. A teacher is responsible for his students. It's not an either/or situation. Both Teacher and Student are responsible.

However

This is an imperfect world and each of us needs to be responsible for ourselves. No human being is powerful enough to override or take away each of our own personal responsibility for our safety. If we have given up our power, that was our choice. I am not trying to minimize anyone's negative experiences or dismiss any anger toward Max. But, none of us were victims. No one forced any of us to seek out Max or to train with him. No one kept us from stopping the practice either. We all chose to learn from him. We can all choose to stop the practice. If we have been damaged, we need to take appropriate action to heal ourselves. Life is risky. There are no perfect teachers. If we choose to investigate a spiritual practice, we each need to continually be willing to be responsible for the cleanup.

 

So, we can still be hurt or angry at Max. But we also need to remember that we volunteered. Max also warned everyone ahead of time that his Kunlun was a possible rollercoaster. We need to take responsibility for the ticket we each purchased...

Edited October 14, 2009 by fiveelementtao

[Guest winpro07]

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Edited April 11, 2009 by winpro07

[seadog]

Well one thing is obvious from all of these posts.

Kunlun works!

Although for me the adage buy now pay later never had a sweet sound about it.

I'll pay my dues the old fashion way thanks.

 

If for a moment we think we can take with one hand without giving with the other we are sadly mistaken.

For the cost of an old room at hotel Kulun I would rather find somewhere else to stay.

Hey Yoda ever have the dream about the old house.

[soco]

This is a very good question. I am not trying to take any responsibility from the teacher. A teacher is responsible for his students. It's not an either/or situation. Both Teacher and Student are responsible.

However

This is an imperfect world and each of us needs to be responsible for ourselves. No human being is powerful enough to override or take away each of our own personal responsibility for our safety. If we have given up our power, that was our choice. I am not trying to minimize anyone's negative experiences or dismiss any anger toward Max. But, none of us were victims. No one forced any of us to seek out Max or to train with him. No one kept us from stopping the practice either. We all chose to learn from him. We can all choose to stop the practice. If we have been damaged, we need to take appropriate action to heal ourselves. Life is risky. There are no perfect teachers. There is always a risk that a teacher will be dangerous. If we choose to investigate a spiritual practice, we each need to continually be willing to be responsible for the cleanup.

 

So, we can still be hurt or angry at Max and we may be right. But we also need to remember that we volunteered. Max may have done some things improperly or made serious mistakes in his teaching. I certainly would have done things differently. But Max also warned everyone ahead of time that his Kunlun was a possible rollercoaster. We need to take responsibility for the ticket we each purchased...

 

 

Totally agree, expecting Max to take care of each and everyone of us sounds like a giant stress. If we choose to follow a trail, there mmight be all kind of surprises!

As you say there might have been errors in the way of teaching, but teaching is a path itself, a very difficult learning process with as much rewards and frustrations as the students learning process. So I wonder about Maxs opinion on all this, how has he felt, what has he faced, beside all the TB critics. Max wont be teaching around for much longer, he is going a step farther in his own development....

So should we

[三江源]

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Edited July 21, 2014 by cat