Kunlun follow up poll

[gendao]

Yes, but shen is further refined into emptiness. Then you "crush the emptiness".

 

Everything must be let go of.

Well, a number of things can happen to shen - it can be refined to void...or even recycled back to jing.

 

The question is how exactly to do either, what we "should be" trying to do and what exactly Kunlun is doing? But I guess you'd need 3rd-eye vision to really be able to directly see what's going on...so until then, we're all just theoretically speculating.

Edited January 22, 2010 by vortex

[Taomeow]

Well, a number of things can happen to shen - it can be refined to void...or even recycled back to jing.

 

The question is how exactly to do either, what we "should be" trying to do and what exactly Kunlun is doing? But I guess you'd need 3rd-eye vision to really be able to directly see what's going on...so until then, we're all just theoretically speculating.

Kunlun doesn't transform jing to qi to shen, it goes in the opposite direction. Shen to qi to jing to --?.. "void" some say, but if you're at the jing level, you have choices. Jing level is the great switchboard, you go where you want if you master that. And I'm not sure that "void" is where "everyone" wants to go. Laozi, e.g., went to the celestial realm instead, and so did countless tianzun (deities and immortals of taoism).

[~jK~]

I took a while to re-read about what kunlun is... http://www.kunlunbliss.com/

 

The guy claims that traditional methods take 33 years is a crock of bull designed for the ignorant.

Obviously (to me) What it is - is a distraction from the actual practice of Kundalini Yoga.

Very - Very few improvements are made over traditional methods.

 

Good luck with your practice - but watchout for the guy with a hammer - he may be trying to nail your other foot to the floor.

[fiveelementtao]

I took a while to re-read about what kunlun is... http://www.kunlunbliss.com/

 

The guy claims that traditional methods take 33 years is a crock of bull designed for the ignorant.

Obviously (to me) What it is - is a distraction from the actual practice of Kundalini Yoga.

Very - Very few improvements are made over traditional methods.

 

Good luck with your practice - but watchout for the guy with a hammer - he may be trying to nail your other foot to the floor.

No JK. It is not related to Kundalini yoga. I am a kundalini Yogi. Kunlun is very different. It is a taoist practice. I support you in whatever opinion you choose to have about it. But, you aren't going to get any kind of real understanding from reading a website page. If you want to understand what the practice actually is, you can get his book and see for yourself. Then at least you can formulate an educated opinion...

Peace,

Mike

Edited September 22, 2011 by fiveelementtao

[gendao]

Kunlun doesn't transform jing to qi to shen, it goes in the opposite direction. Shen to qi to jing to --?.. "void" some say, but if you're at the jing level, you have choices. Jing level is the great switchboard, you go where you want if you master that. And I'm not sure that "void" is where "everyone" wants to go. Laozi, e.g., went to the celestial realm instead, and so did countless tianzun (deities and immortals of taoism).

I dunno about that, based upon the symptoms more commonly reported.

 

When your qi is full, you have glowing health and lose your appetite (bigu).

When your jing is full, you lose sexual urges.

 

Well, I haven't heard of these 2 so much from Kunluners...but more of intense spiritual openings and sometimes sleeplessness (at least initially). So, these would seem to be more indicative of full shen (than full qi or jing).

 

Now, maybe Kunlun is extracting shen directly from the "universal" void (instead of refining it from your own qi)? This could correlate what Max was saying about how he thinks it may draw zero-point (vacuum) energy. Guess that could be another possibility...

[Aetherous]

Edited January 24, 2010 by Scotty

[ralis]

Are Jenny Lamb's teaching's similar to Kunlun?

 

 

ralis

[fiveelementtao]

Are Jenny Lamb's teaching's similar to Kunlun?

 

 

ralis

'

Jenny taught Max the Formless Qigong, what Max calls Kunlun 1 - 3. The entirety of what Max calls Kunlun is a combination of Jenny Lambs Spontaneous Qigong and some Shang Ch'ing alchemy practices... so the idea is that (according to Max) he is reintegrating two lineage methods that were originally together... So, to answer your question Jenny's teachings are one part of the entire "Kunlun" body of practices. People tend to focus on the spontaneous practice, but it is only part of it...

Edited September 22, 2011 by fiveelementtao

[senseikarma]

Guys,

 

Pardon my noob question. There are a bunch of practices within that book. What else would you recommend along with Kunlun? Or I just stick to Kulun 1 for now? Scotty said some place Dan Tien breathing is good?

 

I also do some Spring Forest Qigong now. Does doing Kunlun 1 mean I stop Spring Forest Qigong?

 

Again, apologies if my question sound stupid.

[fiveelementtao]

Guys,

 

Pardon my noob question. There are a bunch of practices within that book. What else would you recommend along with Kunlun? Or I just stick to Kulun 1 for now? Scotty said some place Dan Tien breathing is good?

 

I also do some Spring Forest Qigong now. Does doing Kunlun 1 mean I stop Spring Forest Qigong?

 

Again, apologies if my question sound stupid.

To begin with, along with KL 1, I strongly recommend the standing postures and Golden flower meditation #1. KL will raise your vibration, the standing postures and the Golden flower will help ground the energy in the Lower dan tien. I would wait to start Golden flower 2 and 3 for at least a few months or until you begin KL2 and 3 respectively. IME, those who have problems with KL, do not ground enough with the other exercises... IME and IMO KL 1, 2 3 are best practiced in conjunction with Five Element Jongs and I Jong. Golden flower is necessary to process the energies through the dantiens. The other practices like traveling hands and red sun are auxiliary practices. The core practices are KL 1,2,3 - I Jong - 5 element Jongs - Golden Flower and a thorough closedown. IME, and IMO, these core practices should be practiced together as an overall unit for best and balanced results...

[Creation]

Jenny taught Max the Formless Qigong, what Max calls Kunlun 1 - 3.

The story I remember is that Kunlun level 1 is the same as Yi Gong level 1. Jenny did not teach Max (or anyone) the higher level(s) of Yi Gong. If you don't recognize levels 2 and 3 as being from the Lum lineage, I wonder where they came from?

Edited January 23, 2010 by Creation

[Creation]

To begin with, along with KL 1, I strongly recommend the standing postures and Golden flower meditation #1... Golden flower is necessary to process the energies through the dantiens.

I've been wondering about Golden Flower for a while. The only thing the book said for golden flower was the mudra. Is there a mental aspect of the practice, i.e. what is one to do with the mind when holding the mudra? Also, should the practice be done immediately before or after the spontaneous practice and/or close-down, or perhaps completely separately?

[Taomeow]

 

It goes in the traditional way. The legs shaking is jing transforming to qi.

.

 

Jing? No. That's blockages being released. Blockages are dead jing/dead qi/ghost shen conglomerates. All modern people have them in abundance, but choose to believe they are working with "pure" energies. Nope. No such luck. If you were born at a hospital, not breastfed or not breastfed on demand, not carried on the mother's body for most of the first 2 years of your life, and so on, you have dead jing in abundance even if nothing worse ever happened to you. If you sat in classroom, immobilized for hours for years every day, and then in front of the TV, and then ate from the supermarket fare, you have dead qi even if nothing worse ever happened to you. If you were taught to suppress all your real feelings to the extent you lost the ability to know what you really feel, and intellectualize and rationalize them instead, disconnecting your thought process from your body process, you have ghost shen even if nothing worse ever happened to you. Now what kunlun does first, before it does anything else, is it hits those formations (which sometimes manifest as leg shaking and sometimes as "entities," depending on what kind of stuff has gone into making them to begin with) and unblocks and releases them. For most, the first stages are not alchemical and that's great, because alchemy in a contaminated system is hell's kitchen.

 

 

Then they shouldn't learn Taoist alchemy, and should stick to health methods.

Lu Dongbin the patriarch of my kind of alchemy strongly disagrees.

[gendao]

Blockages are dead jing/dead qi/ghost shen conglomerates. All modern people have them in abundance, but choose to believe they are working with "pure" energies. Nope. No such luck.

And actually, even if you had a perfect upbringing, you'd probably still have tons of blockages from ancestral and past life causes... In fact, our big deep ones are usually from those prenatal sources.

 

BTW, I basically have no kriyas or external reactions anymore when doing Kunlun now - what about everyone else? I may feel energetic sensations in me, but that's it. No more flapping arms, primal screaming or rambling jibberish, lol.

Edited January 23, 2010 by vortex

[Taomeow]

And actually, even if you had a perfect upbringing, you'd probably still have tons of blockages from ancestral and past life causes... In fact, our big deep ones are usually from those prenatal sources.

 

Too true.

 

BTW, I basically have no kriyas or external reactions anymore when doing Kunlun now - what about everyone else? I may feel energetic sensations in me, but that's it.

I'm being inspired to restart my practice, I was doing other stuff for a while (Longmen pai) -- which the teacher said is not incompatible unless you do both on the same day -- so I'll see how it goes, don't know yet. Where I left off, I was having experiences with kunlun I don't expect to be inactivated -- communication with DNA. (I can't say "my DNA" because it's an inaccurate way to attribute possession, just like "my god" or "my tao" would be ).

[ralis]

.

 

Jing? No. That's blockages being released. Blockages are dead jing/dead qi/ghost shen conglomerates. All modern people have them in abundance, but choose to believe they are working with "pure" energies. Nope. No such luck. If you were born at a hospital, not breastfed or not breastfed on demand, not carried on the mother's body for most of the first 2 years of your life, and so on, you have dead jing in abundance even if nothing worse ever happened to you. If you sat in classroom, immobilized for hours for years every day, and then in front of the TV, and then ate from the supermarket fare, you have dead qi even if nothing worse ever happened to you. If you were taught to suppress all your real feelings to the extent you lost the ability to know what you really feel, and intellectualize and rationalize them instead, disconnecting your thought process from your body process, you have ghost shen even if nothing worse ever happened to you. Now what kunlun does first, before it does anything else, is it hits those formations (which sometimes manifest as leg shaking and sometimes as "entities," depending on what kind of stuff has gone into making them to begin with) and unblocks and releases them. For most, the first stages are not alchemical and that's great, because alchemy in a contaminated system is hell's kitchen.

 

Thank you! You are making the muddy waters of this thread clear again. I have the book and may start the practice soon.

 

ralis

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lu Dongbin the patriarch of my kind of alchemy strongly disagrees.

[Aetherous]

Edited January 24, 2010 by Scotty

[Aetherous]

Edited January 24, 2010 by Scotty

[Mal]

I see Cameron is on that list. That's awesome. It's great to see a long time 'bum finding something that works for them and progressing. Your posts have made a nice evolution over time too Scotty.

[Taomeow]

And for those who are wondering how to practice better, go study with a facilitator or instructor. Those who aren't certified are lacking knowledge, no matter how "advanced" they seem.

 

For real.

 

http://www.primordialalchemist.com/facilitator.html

I've met facilitators who became facilitators after fulfilling the requirements, in a very short time and with no prior taoist practices or theory or anything at all in their personal developmental history. Certification made them qualified to help newbies start practicing, it's absolutely correct. It didn't, however, by itself, make them more knowledgeable or experienced than anyone who is not a certified facilitator.

 

I am certified to teach certain Longmen Pai practices. I won't teach them though because I don't feel I've had enough experience and I know I lack the knowledge yet. No one told me that; I told myself. When/if that changes, I might reconsider.

 

Certification is not magic, Scotty. It's just a business contract. I'm not saying these are useless -- they are very useful -- I'm just saying that they are what they are and they aren't what they aren't -- and what they aren't is a substitute for the leg work, mind work, soul work, life living, integrity, creativity, compassion, talent, studiousness, any number of "not certifiable" qualities useful in a cultivator.

[Guest winpro07]

I got the book from a friend and started practicing level 1. I can see that my legs are trembling a little but nothing beyond that. No bliss that the book talks about. After 3 minutes or so, my hands begin to hurt and all I can think of is to bring my hands down and rest. Is it because I don't have transmission from the teacher?

spiraling at the waist seems trivial, but it is very effective if your body is not very magnetic yet. It increases neural upwards flow and ionization/energy.

[Guest winpro07]

Kunlun doesn't transform jing to qi to shen, it goes in the opposite direction. Shen to qi to jing to --?.. "void" some say, but if you're at the jing level, you have choices. Jing level is the great switchboard, you go where you want if you master that. And I'm not sure that "void" is where "everyone" wants to go. Laozi, e.g., went to the celestial realm instead, and so did countless tianzun (deities and immortals of taoism).

exactlty. It seems like other things depending on personal perspective, but on the tail end of reawakening everything is manifested from the void. There is an energy arrive in greater, or lesser abundance from void but I cannot call it jing. There is also another more refined energy that forms inside the yang body. It's not light

[Guest winpro07]

Certification is not magic, Scotty. It's just a business contract. I'm not saying these are useless -- they are very useful -- I'm just saying that they are what they are and they aren't what they aren't -- and what they aren't is a substitute for the leg work, mind work, soul work, life living, integrity, creativity, compassion, talent, studiousness, any number of "not certifiable" qualities useful in a cultivator.

 

There is a definite difference in quality of energy and refinement between facilitator and practitioner in this case. It seems difficult for so much to transpire in such a short span of time, but it does. Actually the certificate it's self is magic. It has a foo.

Edited January 23, 2010 by winpro07

[Aetherous]

Edited January 24, 2010 by Scotty

[Mal]

So it's simple: if you're not certified, you're not a good source of information about Kunlun. No matter who you are!

 

Wow