Kunlun follow up poll

[Yoda]

Thanks for the support Mind Meld Michael! It's like that dream of the morally ambiguous teacher dude and us taobums standing on the safe rug!

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[mgd]

[Yoda]

[Yoda]

so here is a thread, not K specific, but picks up on the closely related entity/human interactions debate.

 

 

Witch's "entities with benefits" thread:

 

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=11532&hl=

 

 

-Yoda

[AugustLeo]

.

[effilang]

Last post read! - Finally!

 

I have seen a lot of sincerity here and likewise a lot of hate and anger, too little compassion and a voluntary lack of the willingness to understand. Much like our planet only on a smaller scale : )

 

If there is one thing i have learned on this forum and through my practices, both of Taoism and Martial Arts, it is that we all seek to find that which will lead us on our chosen path, faster, safer, more efficiently and without sacrificing quality and authenticity.

 

From within the Nos and the Yes' the Cheer and the Gloom, one truth seems to float above the bad experiences and misunderstanding; that Kunlun; in whatever it "does" yields results, evidently the nature of which have been positive for some and negative for others. None the less, tangible results.

 

Do we not have it in each other here the wisdom and maturity to separate Kunlun from it's attributions to negativity and former names of teachers and students and take what is left of it to make something better? - What is the benefit of this fighting? - What is the point of these arguments? - If it is help that people need to recover from a darkness that has beset them, it will not be out of fighting or negativity... but of an open heart and compassion that one will offer to heal them.

 

It appears to me here that Kunlun has become a feast for many to feed their egos with. Even out of the worst one can derive a glimmer of goodness. From within hate we often find love and care and from ignorance, understanding and appreciation.

 

I may be wrong to assume that this is correct. But i feel there are many here whom are developed, experienced and wise in the way of the Tao. Is there no way to salvage what is good of Kunlun? - All say, this is bad, but few offer to make it better. If you all agree that this method is overly-effective, then why not come together to scale it down and make a system of Kunlun which is more balanced, taking both from the lighter side and from the darker side; to form a harmonious method of practice?

 

I am certain there is enough knowledge and understanding within this community to give rebirth to a Kunlun, which may benefit many to come in the future. Why totally destroy something, when we can make it better?

 

I can imagine with clarity, that if people were willing to put aside their prejudice and egos a thread could be opened here, that could discuss the proven benefits of Kunlun, it's proven negatives, methodology, cautions, instructions, experiences, recommendations, stories, warnings, individual progress, answering questions, safety guidelines and much more. I am adamant in my belief that a beneficial balance can always be established if there is will and intent.

 

I am sure there are others out there who could use such information, maybe even people who may currently be experiencing negative feedback from Kunlun practice who have nowhere to turn to. Is there not something more positive we can provide? - I believe this community has the power to do so if it wills.

 

I sense too much ignorance and misunderstanding and prejudice by many posters here.

Can we not be better than this?

 

It truly saddens me

Edited December 26, 2009 by effilang

[Aetherous]

Wow, congrats on reading all of that.

 

If you all agree that this method is overly-effective, then why not come together to scale it down and make a system of Kunlun which is more balanced, taking both from the lighter side and from the darker side; to form a harmonious method of practice?

 

The whole system is already harmonious and balanced. If people have the discipline to do the right thing at the right time, in the right way, they'll get great results.

 

For those practicing on their own who are having problems, each day: eat every 3-4 hours, do some exercise, stay hydrated, be in nature near trees, get a full night's sleep, and belly breathe.

 

Getting in contact with a facilitator or instructor is a good idea...

 

http://www.primordialalchemist.com/facilitator.html

[Taomeow]

 

Is there no way to salvage what is good of Kunlun? - All say, this is bad, but few offer to make it better.

 

Hey,

 

appreciate your sincere effort, Effilang, and have this to offer for your consideration:

 

1. There's no need to salvage anything -- "what is good of kunlun" is "all of it," it's just not good for "everyone," and no one has the power to make "everything" good for "everyone."

 

2. "All" don't say this is bad, "all" who have no experience with it don't count regardless of what they say, and among those who do have experience with it, "most" say it's good or don't say anything. "A few" who found it's "bad" for them will be found in absolutely any modality regardless of how good or how bad it is. My mother is severely allergic to shrimp. I love shrimp. Doesn't make me, her, or the shrimp good or bad. "Most" people like shrimp, "a few" will have true and sincere horror stories about the allergies... catch my drift?

 

3. You can't offer to make an authentic system better unless you have the guts, the energy, and the authority. That's what Max did, by the way, due to having all of the above. It's rare and not for dabblers. When I wanted to improve on the system for my personal practice I asked the teacher if what I was planning was OK to do. He said yes. If he said no I wouldn't do it. Respect for the system and the teacher is partial prerequisite for its successful application, its absence can bust the process from the get-go.

[Jack Runner]

Alright I've finally finished reading some of this thread...a majority of others, mainly looking for the answer to "What is Golden Dragon Body" Never found the answer to that lol. This is what I have to say for someone who's done Kunlun for the 1st time ever last week.

 

All of these practice's from Mo Pai, to Kunlun is a lot like choosing a box of cereal in a store. Sometimes you might get a box that you'll never eat from again, sometimes you'll get a box that you'll stick with for the rest of your life and tell your kids about it, while you hope to god that they don't discontinue it, but the simple fact of the matter is regardless of which box of cereal you get. It will fill you up, and do it's job, and give you nutrition. Some boxes will have people have an allergic reaction to it, some boxes will make people sick, and some boxes people just down right wont like the taste, etc, but to spend countless hours to try to convince "others" on how to and what to do on their "self" <--key word- awakening.

 

This whole journey of Taoism, and Spiritual practices I thought was to discover ones self? Nobody else opinions or feelings on a method that didn't work for them on their "self" awakening should have any baring or response from another person. Yes I'll agree its good to know about the negative possible side effects to a practice, and in that instance to those who were just letting others know of THEIR personal experiences with a -SELF- awakening technique it's understandable and I thank you for sharing your experiences even if they were dark/scary/etc. Now it starts to cross some lines when an INDIVIDUAL turns their SELF awakening about keeping OTHERS afraid from what they themselves experienced.

 

It's ego battles and dick measuring contest like these that took these teachings so long to actually GET to general public, to much in fighting about "who's way is right". As oppose to "did you find your zen space also"

 

I think it personally stems from how the US (if not most western cultures) has been geared towards viewing people as "if they're not on the same page as us, there must be something wrong with them"

 

It basically all boils down to this; Some people like the heat, some people like the cold. Each practice has a different road that takes our soul through it's internal journey to re-find itself. The Law of attraction will clearly put those who like the same path in the same area, and those who try to take a path that isn't for them will meet resistance and will be surrounded by people that don't see things in the same light. Does that make them bad, or wrong? No it makes them their own entity with their own path to take. Period. Now instead of bashing something that wasn't good for you, or didn't work wouldn't it just be simpler to say "hey this isn't for me, but it might work for you but beware because I experienced etc".

 

This whole drama over Kunlun is like a argument two friends of mine had a few years back, friend A: broke up with girl because she drove him nuts, relationship sucked in his mind and it just wasn't what he wanted. Friend B: Gets with same girl and they have an AMAZING time together, because they're on the same page. Anything if not everything in life is pretty much like that.

 

I'll be glad to live in a world to where instead of people jumping on other peoples cases for their differences or difference in experiences they truly understand that we -each- and -every- one of us are going through our OWN deal, and that if someone isn't able to be supportive of that situation, odds are they never will, and they on are a different path and to simply just let them go, except that, and move on. The moment you personally cant except someone else's path is when your ego has more control and say in whats going on in your surroundings than you do.

 

I feel people really need to remember that the key thing about all of this is -YOU- a self awakening has nothing to do with anyone else BUT you, anything you see, do or go through during that experience has everything to do with you. It really all boils down to personal responsibility and owning up to who and what you are and what you see.

 

 

I personally hope I see reptiles; but that mainly is due to the fact that I've grown up loving Dragons, and always have thought of them to be symbols of courage, wisdom, and adventure, and the brains language in dreams and visions are mainly symbolical. When I 1st did Kunlun I say an Egyptian tomb with a pharaohs sarcophagus lid. I'm still trying to figure out what it means. A part of me thinks it has some linage in Egypt, but only time will tell.

 

Sad thing is after reading all of these post I have gotten to know a few of you well from it, but non of you know who the hell I am. Sooooooooo.

 

Hi.

[freeform]

Mr -O- had some amazing insights about the practice, the 'stages' of development, what can and can't be expected, etc.

 

Unfortunately he felt it necessary to remove his posts.

 

I for one would really like to hear much more from him.

[Smile]

You can't offer to make an authentic system better unless you have the guts, the energy, and the authority. That's what Max did, by the way, due to having all of the above. It's rare and not for dabblers. When I wanted to improve on the system for my personal practice I asked the teacher if what I was planning was OK to do. He said yes. If he said no I wouldn't do it. Respect for the system and the teacher is partial prerequisite for its successful application, its absence can bust the process from the get-go.

The problem with changing the method is that you never know what the experiment will bring down the road. Unless you have an amazing merit/wisdom to see things clearly or have someone to interfere in time before you get hurt.

[Jack Runner]

Mr -O- had some amazing insights about the practice, the 'stages' of development, what can and can't be expected, etc.

 

Unfortunately he felt it necessary to remove his posts.

 

I for one would really like to hear much more from him.

 

Well damn, that's a shame -O- feels he has to ninja his info. Oh well. I'm sure he has his reasons.

[Taomeow]

The problem with changing the method is that you never know what the experiment will bring down the road. Unless you have an amazing merit/wisdom to see things clearly or have someone to interfere in time before you get hurt.

True. It's also true with NOT changing the method though. Gopi Krishna comes to mind. He did an authentic, no-changing-anything, ages old and reputable Hindu meditation (sitting in lotus, focusing on the third eye) for 17 years, for 3 hours every day at dawn. Nothing happened in all those years, he would finish the meditation and go to work, I seem to recall as an accountant. Then one day his kundalini suddenly (sic) awoke and rushed up the shushumna. What followed was 12 years of psychosis, and only after that, wisdom and clairty.

 

If he was to report on the results of his practice in its 10th year, he would have to say it does "nothing." If he was to report on its outcome after 20 years, he would have to say it drives you crazy and causes great suffering. It was only after 30 years that he wrote books about it that became an authoritative guide for practitioners worldwide, and could say about the practice that it brought him both spiritual enlightenment and human satisfaction.

 

Kunlun is nowhere near as slow.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Taomeow

[Mal]

[freeform]

Edited January 15, 2010 by freeform

[Guest winpro07]

..

Edited January 16, 2010 by winpro07

[Sloppy Zhang]

This practice is usually undertaken initially under the guidance of, and within the powerful chi field of a Chi Kung Master or Healer who can both transmit the essence of the teaching, and generate a powerful energy field to support the practitioner as they go through their own attunements.

 

I find this bit quite interesting.

 

Maybe this is one of the many reasons why so many people have found/find Kunlun great at the start, but "bad" later on down the road (maybe even when they return home!) because they have lost the "support structure". Then again in some systems spontaneous movement is "taught" (untaught? it's spontaneous) after the student has spent a while on regular routines, so maybe the student has their own supportive field?

 

Some people may have naturally strong energy fields, so they can be "open" but not necessarily vulnerable to potentially harmful outside influences, and maybe some of us practice in areas that are surrounded by a potentially detrimental pocket of energy.

 

Maybe a mix of a few, or none of he above. Still interesting.

[Guest winpro07]

..

Edited January 16, 2010 by winpro07

[freeform]

..

 

Winpro also gives very illuminating insights into the practice... If you catch his posts before they're gone ofcourse!! Winpro can actually see what's happening in the alchemical transformation - this a gift that's hard to understand for most. Dude - your insights are always appreciated by me.

 

Maybe this is one of the many reasons why so many people have found/find Kunlun great at the start, but "bad" later on down the road (maybe even when they return home!) because they have lost the "support structure".

 

actually out of the many hundreds of people who experienced kunlun only a handful found it 'bad'. Most notably our dear Yoda who was looking for an out-of-this-world experience but when he got it and it spilled over into his family life he quite understandably got rather conscerned. I've not looked for such experiences, if they happen I tend to let them go. Just like when you were a kid - having amazing experiences and letting them go all at the same time.

 

Apart from the spontaneous aspect we strengthen the body through the 5 elements standing, and have practices that open us up to recieve a higher current. The transmission is like having a lightning rod installed on top of our heads - it attracts spiritual lightning to course through us. We don't need to use Max's energy once we've had the transmission. It's like being given a phone number - once we have the number, we can dial in and receive as much energy as we can handle (how much we can handle depends on our ability to let go during the spontaneous practice).

 

Letting go is the simplest thing in the world, but we make it rather difficult for ourselves.

[enquiring.mind]

Edited January 16, 2010 by enquiring.mind

[Biff]

[enquiring.mind]

[Guest winpro07]

Edited January 17, 2010 by winpro07

[-O-]

Edited January 17, 2010 by -O-

[satyagraha]

IMPORTANT!

I was reading Hua Ching Ni's "A tale of Two Kingdoms" and this quote came up:

 

"Generally, most people cannot see, hear, or feel the subtle level of beings, which in human culture are habitually titled spirits, angels, ghosts, fairies, demons, or devils.....If you are a serious person looking for spiritual development, you must go through a stage when you are contacted, confused and scared by them. "

 

And

 

"Your understanding depends on your level...You may be inspired by direct contact with a teacher. It is not that he can teach you; if you are not yet developed, you cannot receive the truth he teachers. This is why a good student is more important than a good teacher"

 

 

,

 

I too have taken a break from Kunlun and plan on returning when my life and emotions are more stable, I am bipolar and kunlun, because my own ineffiencies regarding the management of these emotions makes me very ungrounded. I will return when I have resolved most or more of my own internal conflicts

Edited January 17, 2010 by satyagraha