Kunlun follow up poll

[mgd]

...

Edited April 13, 2009 by mgd

[mgd]

...

Edited April 13, 2009 by mgd

[三江源]

.

Edited July 21, 2014 by cat

[dizzydazzle]

Yoda, thanks for sharing brother. Drama Queen - naaw, you rock.

[mgd]

...

Edited April 13, 2009 by mgd

[Ya Mu]

As far as I know, we miss out on this 'entertainment' if we skip higher than the lower astral levels. Glenn Morris says how entities in the void can offer 'love' and 'sex' to get into relationship with us... it's a path of initiation, learning to tell the difference between what is good and what is less than good, dressed up in disguise..

 

Addressing this post and not the Kunlun.

 

You hit on a very good point here. Most people think they want to get to the 'astral levels". But what resides here is disembodied liars, created thought forms, and just pure nonsense. In the system I practice we shoot past this level and enter an entirely different vibrational level. My suggestion is to ALWAYS strive to shoot past this level of nonsense. That said I do believe most seekers have to arrive at this point. Many get trapped/caught up in this astral level, thinking it is the higher level reality. But it is not. One thing I teach my students is this; at night before falling asleep say a simple (simple but powerful) prayer and ask for help shooting past this layer of non-sense, command your real you to go past this layer ignoring the non-sense.

[Yoda]

So seeing my daughter do kunlun in the middle of the night brings up a new dimension to the personal responsibility theme... even if Kunlun is a totally fine, non-problematic practice with simply issues that it will bring to the surface do I have a right to put that kind of thing at the feet of my 8 year old daughter?

 

I had asked her to test the Kunlun position several times and she was definitely open to the energy of it, but she never practiced it... so it was more than a bit surprising that she would have a strong Kunlun experience in her sleep months later. (She sat up in her sleep and started shaking vigorously for a few seconds, stopped, and then laid back down, her eyes were closed and she had no recollection of the event in the morning but she woke both Mrs Yoda and I up with her shaking, as she sleeps with us.)

 

Another thorny issue: once this sort of thing is activated, where is the stop button? I quit over a month ago but it's still rattling around inside me. Even if I get the actual practice itself to stop, are there deeper components simply chillin' out on inactive status?

 

Yoda

[gendao]

With Kunlun it seems it's every man or woman for themselves. My "friends" tell me different tales in private or email me for help, and then post a totally different facade all to portray Kunlun and Max as the perfect practice and the perfect teacher. Further education should have be provided to aid the development of the student, education of what would/could potentially happen. Max had no business teaching this to large groups if he couldn't personally continue to be their teacher on a sometimes needed individual basis, as promised originally before and at the beginning of the inception of the Kunlun website. Promises were made and not kept. This to me is the greatest transgression made by Max and the Kunlun School.

So, sounds like the main gripes are:

 

1) The practice may raise some dark aspects in peoples' lives - but the students are largely left to deal with these on their own or amongst themselves. In short, there is insufficient preparation and technical support for this phase.

2) The nature of all the phenomena and effects (like health issues or adverse life events) experienced is uncertain. Is it all purification, or possibly also some contamination? And how can we discern the difference? How can we KNOW anything in life?

3) Max sometimes speaks off-topic about fringe topics (like aliens, etc). Some may find some of this stuff "creepy."

 

I also don't think all of these issues are unique to Kunlun, though. But seem to be common to many on the "ascension" path. I have one friend, for example, who is dealing with some serious problems supposedly from an astral encounter...and she has never done Kunlun before. However, she is very empathetic, open and ungrounded - which may leave her more vulnerable.

 

mgd - So, how do you feel Jenny's presentation might better avoid or address these potential pitfalls? IOW, how can these areas be improved upon? Let's start talking about some solutions, here.

 

Personally, I think Kunlun should be naturally self-paced, and if someone is starting to feel too challenged, they may want to decrease their practice time, perhaps. They should also be prepared for and ideally have a good foundation of health, wealth and reliable healers to support the "ascension process." As well as learn your own self-healing. And from what I've heard, I agree with Ya Mu - try to avoid the lower astral realms - even though that may be the first level many contact as they start to expand their perception.

Edited April 10, 2009 by vortex

[三江源]

.

Edited July 21, 2014 by cat

[三江源]

.

Edited July 21, 2014 by cat

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well, I finally got the book, so I can finally make some more educated comments

 

Not for me.

 

I'm sticking with B.K. Frantzis' method and zen meditation.

 

Although I must give props to Kunlun because it did help me understand my practices on a deeper level. While people have had some crazy experiences with Kunlun, I think they may result naturally in any system, just after years of preparation. Max says he wants to skip all the years of this, which is a double edged sword. On the one hand you can get people to a higher level faster. On the other hand, people get to that higher level faster.

 

In Frantzis' method, for example, you spend a long time focusing on breathing, relaxing, grounding, dissolving, all that stuff. In higher levels you do encounter spontaneous movements, "downloads" from the universe, learning things no physical human ever taught you. But when that happens, you have years of foundations down to help you. So Max said in the old days when this happened to people they were told to leave for seven years (or something), to "figure it all out." That would have worked better in the old days because those people would have had years of preparation in how to deal with stuff. The average modern person who goes to a seminar and has freaky stuff happening to them has less methods of dealing with that stress to their system because they don't have those years of study (this is a generalization! I'm not calling anybody here a spiritual wimp )

 

So, like, when I'm reading instructions that say "sit in a chair and relax", well when I read that I start to do the relaxation techniques and stuff taught by Frantzis, which a student of the old days would have known (or known a technique similar). When you teach that stuff to a modern student, "sit and relax" doesn't carry the same weight. I think taomeow said something along the lines of "how do modern people even know what 'natural' is anymore?" Modern people don't even have the background necessary to know what "relax" even is! Their idea of "relax" might involve a poor, collapsed posture with tense shoulders and a craned neck. My posture has gotten a lot better since studying Frantzis' method because I've become more aware of what my body is really doing. If I didn't have that, just hearing "sit and relax" wouldn't nearly get me to where I am now.

 

SO, I definitely think that Kunlun may be presenting some advanced stuff. Which again I say is good and bad. It depends on the person and their level of exposure to stuff prior to Kunlun (so like Trunk mentioned knowing what to do when visited by an entity, as opposed to a new person who might freak out a lot more).

 

And that's where I'm at with Kunlun. Not a BAD practice.... just, maybe not for everyone? All the paths lead up to the top of the mountain anyway, I like the path that I was on, and now I'm getting back on that path and I'm going to keep walking. Eventually we'll all reach the same place, so see you guys there

Edited April 10, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[gendao]

And that's where I'm at with Kunlun. Not a BAD practice.... just, maybe not for everyone? All the paths lead up to the top of the mountain anyway, I like the path that I was on, and now I'm getting back on that path and I'm going to keep walking. Eventually we'll all reach the same place, so see you guys there

I thought of this hypothetical last night:

 

You are at the base of a mountain. There is the main path leading lazily up the sides with well-marked switchbacks and tour guides. It's a long, 8 hour roundtrip...but with few unknowns or surprises. The road more travelled, so to speak.

 

Then a local comes up to you and shows you a hidden deer trail off to the side. It's a bit brushier and appears to lead up the steep face of the mountain. At some points, you may even have to jump off precipices into pools to get down faster. Definitely the road less travelled. But, it promises to be only a 2 hour roundtrip.

 

 

So, which trail do you choose?

 

 

PS - I am not making any direct analogies with Kunlun or other practices here btw, as I really don't know enough about any to. It's really just a hypothetical parable about different paths and their possible trade-off's. Where some may suit some better than others depending upon their own level and personal preference.

[soco]

So the seeing visions, automatic writing, contacting higher beings as well as all other phenomenon which a student thinks is coming from the "Lineage" may be instead their unconscious and or coming from lower level/negative energies.

 

You still dont know who i am hm Gloria, Ill have to surprise you again soon then

hugs

 

N.

 

I thought of this hypothetical last night:

 

You are at the base of a mountain. There is the main path leading lazily up the sides with well-marked switchbacks and tour guides. It's a long, 8 hour roundtrip...but with few unknowns or surprises. The road more travelled, so to speak.

 

Then a local comes up to you and shows you a hidden deer trail off to the side. It's a bit brushier and appears to lead up the steep face of the mountain. At some points, you may even have to jump off precipices into pools to get down faster. Definitely the road less travelled. But, it promises to be only a 2 hour roundtrip.

So, which trail do you choose?

PS - I am not making any direct analogies with Kunlun or other practices here btw, as I really don't know enough about any to. It's really just a hypothetical parable about different paths and their possible trade-off's. Where some may suit some better than others depending upon their own level and personal preference.

 

have a taste for adventure....yup ill risk it, would you join me????

cuz, it is the path thats the fun part of the journey, the goal is always there

Edited April 10, 2009 by soco

[Guest winpro07]

..

Edited April 11, 2009 by winpro07

[mgd]

...

Edited April 13, 2009 by mgd

[dizzydazzle]

So seeing my daughter do kunlun in the middle of the night brings up a new dimension to the personal responsibility theme... even if Kunlun is a totally fine, non-problematic practice with simply issues that it will bring to the surface do I have a right to put that kind of thing at the feet of my 8 year old daughter?

 

I had asked her to test the Kunlun position several times and she was definitely open to the energy of it, but she never practiced it... so it was more than a bit surprising that she would have a strong Kunlun experience in her sleep months later. (She sat up in her sleep and started shaking vigorously for a few seconds, stopped, and then laid back down, her eyes were closed and she had no recollection of the event in the morning but she woke both Mrs Yoda and I up with her shaking, as she sleeps with us.)

 

Another thorny issue: once this sort of thing is activated, where is the stop button? I quit over a month ago but it's still rattling around inside me. Even if I get the actual practice itself to stop, are there deeper components simply chillin' out on inactive status?

 

Yoda

[/i]

 

Yoda,

 

It may be totally ok what your daughter is going through and I hope and pray it is. With four decades of dabbling with Taoism, entities, yoga and stuff, I was surprised to find myself unable to find a stop button for the k-thing. Initially I ignored the resistance from within and decided to go along with what I then thought was a cleansing phase. But after about five months of practice, I could clearly see the presence of certain beings when in the kunlun state and their company was far from being beneficial. That is when I unsuccessfully tried to get help from Chris/Max who clearly expressed their disinterest in even talking to those who had not attended a dozen kunlun seminars. I spoke to Jenny Lamb for help but she was more interested in proving her point of what a monster Max is. It didn't feel right to accept this state of nightmare as a passing phase or a cleansing reaction. I had stopped holding the ball position but the thing would kick in involuntarily as well. I am trained in marma diagnosis and that showed a severe deterioration in my energetic health like never before. I found myself totally out of control and helpless especially since Sifu was out of UK and in China. That is when Master Chunyi Lin turned out to be a great help. Sessions with him restored balance to a great extent. Then I got guidance from my Indian Master to modify a certain kriya and practice. He gave me a mantra for the Hindu goddess Blue Tara and suggested praying as frequently as possible. After about 8 days of reciting mantra, there was a vision where mother removed a pair of eyes from the tan tien blocking the way of a fiery serpent and pulled the serpent up holding it's tail. There have been no issues thereafter. After my Sifu was back from China, both he and his wife objected strongly to me practicing Kunlun and suggested doing away with the book. Well, not sure how this account is of help to anyone but here it is.i

Edited April 10, 2009 by dizzydazzle

[gendao]

Jenny tells you it is all illusion. Period. If you stay calm and don't indulge or get overwhelmed with your stuff you shouldn't have any problems. If you do she makes herself available to answer your questions. You don't magically advance to higher levels on your own. She tells you when that has happened and will teach you the next level. There are 4 Levels. I bowed out of the Kunlun stream (not gracefully, nowhere near gracefully) before attending her seminar. Phenomenon was not part of her presentation with me because I had already gotten a handle on it. She told me to forget about RP. I didn't need it and it wasn't positive for me...to much for my system to handle. Her spontaneous practice and RP had no business being mixed together as far as she is concerned. How is the spontaneous part of it different than Kunlun? Well...truthfully it's not. It will bring up all the same things...it all seems to be a rite of passage. Staying calm seems to be the key.

 

The history around all of it is still well...a mystery...how many times can the name of this practice change huh? I'll leave that up to her and Max to sort out. There's a story...no not a story...there's the truth, but I let her tell it.

 

I won't be going back to Jenny. I'd like to focus on healing skills right now, self healing mostly and I'd like to learn about the human body. I found a teacher that will teach me that, one who has spent years learning, practicing and doing...he'll well seasoned in troubleshooting. I like the practice. I like the way he teaches. There's more stillness...more calm with the practice. I'd like to learn how to stay calm at all times. I think Michael Lomax and Stillness-Movement will teach me this. I hope he is up to the challenge. And it's not about avoiding anything...it's about learning how not to get stuck there.

Yea, I've been going through a questioning and UNknowing period lately - of how do we KNOW...anything? That couldn't ANYTHING we think is true or real...ultimately be an illusion? And that in fact, maybe everything IS in fact an "illusion."

 

That the only absolute, underlying reality may be the empty void. The only thing that wasn't created, but always was. The real Tao.

 

It may well be like I channeled during a small awakening back in 2007:

The only difference between the Tao and this illusion we call reality is that

The Tao is, always was and always will be.

It cannot be created or erased.

But our illusive reality was MADE.

And will come and go like waves

In the great ocean of Tao.

But I also agree with you that in the here and now, self-healing ability is PARAMOUNT to supporting any alchemical process. Particularly for energetic-based issues. So as with you, I also plan to take Lomax's workshop. May also take a Matrix Energetics one soon too.

 

And even Max stresses the importance of health and says that he first learned Kunlun for health, not awakening...

 

An interesting poll would be to see how many folks experienced health problems or adverse life events after starting Kunlun or some other alchemical path (presumably due to purification and detoxing)?

 

BTW, if it is all detoxing...then I think that is a good thing. However, people should be prepared to deal with such and pace themselves at a rate they can safely handle.

[dizzydazzle]

Both the folks I sought help from tried to tap into the presence that was felt during kunlun and found some interesting stuff about the origins of the practice. I tried to do the same thrice and was quite astounded. I do not think it is right to get into all that creepy stuff here but if you want a safe, tested practice with some level of honesty on the part of the teacher, Kunlun may not be the right thing, especially the transmission. I am sure people will disagree but I would rather stick to the advice of two renowed masters of alchemy than amateurish advice. Don't listen to me but please do listen to yourself. Bliss may not be what you really think it is. If someone really needs help in this regard, I am open to guiding them to my Sifu, about who I have spoken before.

[fiveelementtao]

..

Edited October 14, 2009 by fiveelementtao

[Sloppy Zhang]

I thought of this hypothetical last night:

 

You are at the base of a mountain. There is the main path leading lazily up the sides with well-marked switchbacks and tour guides. It's a long, 8 hour roundtrip...but with few unknowns or surprises. The road more travelled, so to speak.

 

Then a local comes up to you and shows you a hidden deer trail off to the side. It's a bit brushier and appears to lead up the steep face of the mountain. At some points, you may even have to jump off precipices into pools to get down faster. Definitely the road less travelled. But, it promises to be only a 2 hour roundtrip.

So, which trail do you choose?

PS - I am not making any direct analogies with Kunlun or other practices here btw, as I really don't know enough about any to. It's really just a hypothetical parable about different paths and their possible trade-off's. Where some may suit some better than others depending upon their own level and personal preference.

 

Depends.

 

Are you a seasoned mountain climber? Are you athletic enough to make those jumps? Do you have the experience and the tools necessary to climb up solid rock faces? If you fall and break your leg, to do you know enough about first aid to survive and get down to the mountain? Are you alone, or are you with a friend? That friend can help you if you are hurt and can help climb solid rock faces, whereas if you were alone you would require the tour people to provide aid should you need it. Have you ever been on a mountain before? Do you want adventure, or do you just want to casually stroll and look at the scenery? Do you want to get to the top, or do you want to hear what the tour guide has to say about history? Is the local a good person, do you trust them? The local might be a con who will rob and kill you as soon as you get off the beaten path, just because they are local doesn't mean they are nice.

 

So many factors

 

Don't know if anyone's heard of the poem "The Road Not Taken", by Robert Frost, it's interesting, and suggests that maybe the unbeaten path is worth the shot. But there's no reason why you can't be smart enough and use your head. If you've going to have to jump across jagged rocks and climb sheer rock faces, where there's a casual path that leads to the same spot.... well again, what's your goal, and what are the factors involved?

 

Sorry for not giving a straight answer

 

Still it's an interesting thought, and everybody thinks about something a little similar, I think, when choosing their path to take. It's not to say you're "more spiritually macho" if you take the path that involves lots of exertions. Not saying you're a wimp for doing what everyone else is doing. So... yeah. It's easy to glorify one and demonize the other path, but try not to do that, especially because this isn't a game (I'm not speaking to you individually vortex, I'm saying this as a general statement)

[Taomeow]

Both the folks I sought help from tried to tap into the presence that was felt during kunlun and found some interesting stuff about the origins of the practice. I tried to do the same thrice and was quite astounded. I do not think it is right to get into all that creepy stuff here but if you want a safe, tested practice with some level of honesty on the part of the teacher, Kunlun may not be the right thing, especially the transmission.

Ah, innuendo... the fast food of the mind, the junk food of the soul. It is to information what Big Mac is to food: clog your arteries it will, stuff you up it will, nourish you it won't, support your health it can't.

 

How about some facts? What exactly have you learned about the "origins of the practice?" Can you present some information? Can this information be verified by an independent third party -- can you point out a source where such party could find it and evaluate it, a source that is not based on hearsay and opinions?

[fiveelementtao]

So seeing my daughter do kunlun in the middle of the night brings up a new dimension to the personal responsibility theme... even if Kunlun is a totally fine, non-problematic practice with simply issues that it will bring to the surface do I have a right to put that kind of thing at the feet of my 8 year old daughter?

 

I had asked her to test the Kunlun position several times and she was definitely open to the energy of it, but she never practiced it... so it was more than a bit surprising that she would have a strong Kunlun experience in her sleep months later. (She sat up in her sleep and started shaking vigorously for a few seconds, stopped, and then laid back down, her eyes were closed and she had no recollection of the event in the morning but she woke both Mrs Yoda and I up with her shaking, as she sleeps with us.)

 

Another thorny issue: once this sort of thing is activated, where is the stop button? I quit over a month ago but it's still rattling around inside me. Even if I get the actual practice itself to stop, are there deeper components simply chillin' out on inactive status?

 

Yoda

 

I don't have all the answers but I have some ideas... I don't mean to minimize your very prudent and real concerns.

In my experience, children mirror the unconscious of the parents. As your child, your daughter is deeply connected to you. You were having difficulty controlling the "Energy/Spirit" hierarchy within yourself and your daughter was mirroring this. It's important to observe that most of these things happen to us when we are asleep. Why? because that is when our unconscious is in the forefront. Many times, nighttime visitors are projections of our unconscious. The spontaneous Kunlun has the capacity to release the unconscious. So, in terms of your daughter, if YOU are able to take back control of your unconscious, your daughter will mirror that also...

 

In terms of the stop button. (again, not trying to minimize the difficulty). I would do alot of stillness meditation or moving meditation like Tai Chi or Tai chi for enlightenment (I think you know that, right?) and simply tell your unconscious (like it were your child) to stop acting out without your permission. Have a dilaogue with your unconscious and lovingly take back control.

 

Yoda, you were a good student and followed what Max was teaching which was "Submit to the energy. Let it all go." If Max had taught with more discipline and structure, like Jenny. Your result may have been much different. So, I believe you can take back control.

 

My wife is a dog trainer. She breeds a very smart breed of dog. These dogs are great fun, but the owner must be a very dominant pack leader. If the owner doesn't assert authority these dogs will totally control and manipulate them. BUT, if the owner can take charge lovingly, the dog is very obedient. The unconscious is the same. It will continually test us and try and take control. But if we are the loving dominant pack leader, the unconscious will SERVE us. Like our dogs, that is what it wants. To serve. But when we abdicate our leadership, the dog will try to become the pack leader. Not because it wants to, but because there is a leadership vacuum.

 

Again, I do not have all the answers, but this has been my experience and my observations...

Edited October 14, 2009 by fiveelementtao

[三江源]

.

Edited July 21, 2014 by cat

[soco]

i had all kind off opinions about my "guide"

 

- oh it is a bad ghost, send it away

- it is the spirit of an old taoist master leading you to taoism cuz Kunlun is not such a high practice

- it is your highr mind connecting to your lower mind

- dormant parts of your brain are opening

to name a few. so everyone has another idea, but only me knows what ive been feeling, and its been wonderful,if it is a higher consciuosness or my head wanting to be creative or someones head or a no head something is actually not important, it has not harmed me in any way or suck energy away or scared me nor made me sick, on the very opposite, extremely loving patient teacher. so for me i have followed my heart, it comes every once in a while and teaches me neat stuff.

 

Isnt it so that you attract what you send away... send fear youll get fear.....send insecurity youll get insecurity....send pure unconditional love youll get pure unconditional love?????? Isnt it so that your subconscious hears the positive parts of your thought and no "dont's" "no's" so if you think...I dont want to be sick, you might be telling yourself, I want to be sick. and thats the outcome for these experiences. So the negative effects might be self created?

[Aetherous]

Isnt it so that you attract what you send away... send fear youll get fear.....send insecurity youll get insecurity....send pure unconditional love youll get pure unconditional love?????? Isnt it so that your subconscious hears the positive parts of your thought and no "dont's" "no's" so if you think...I dont want to be sick, you might be telling yourself, I want to be sick. and thats the outcome for these experiences. So the negative effects might be self created?

 

In my own case, where I wish to practice because I enjoyed the energy and experiences of dissolving, but can't practice because I get sick...I wish this suggestion of yours could be helpful to me.