is enlightenment a mental disease, according to psychology?

[Tibetan_Ice]

A couple of points your article brings up for me, the neo enlightened seem to have no connection to the wisdom from the old texts as they seem to invariably believe they have surpassed this wisdom, they do seem on the other hand to promote the neo advaitan doctrine of 'nothing needs to be done'. This doctrine is completely perverse to me, though clearly not to many as it has thoroughly invaded Western spirituality.

 

It does seem to be one of the most common traps that a spiritual seeker can fall into, thinking they have attained more than they have, I think it just reflects our tendency towards egoic thought, and ego can operate invisibly no matter how intelligent or well intentioned the person is unfortunately.

I like the statement that Alan Wallace said in one of his Dzogchen talks. He said, "if you think you are enlightened, put your hand in fire and keep it there. Let us know how it goes..." Edited August 6, 2016 by Tibetan_Ice

[Bindi]

I like the statement that Alan Wallace said in one of his Dzogchen talks. He said, "if you think you are enlightened, put your hand in fire and keep it there. Let us know how it goes..."

 

Apparently Ramana didn't try to stop thieves from attacking him when they broke into his ashram, nor did he try to stop them from stealing, and when St Seraphim of Sarov was physically attacked and beaten he didn't fight back or try to defend himself, though he was crippled in the attack. 

 

The actions of the truly enlightened are incomprehensible to the unenlightened it would seem. 

[3bob]

enlightenment is cool and gentle, yet can pierce granite and stand in the sun

[Gerard]

My thoughts are that enlightenment is burning hot, consumes lots of resources or yin and is not sustainable, i find the more enlightened i get, the more enjoyable life experiences, but the more draining. I find it leads to anxiety the higher i go. Disassociation is the opposite is builds yin, and is physically healing, however too much leads to becoming slightly depressed and bored with life.

 

Can anyone empathise with me? I don't have clinical psych diagnosis's, but that's how it feels to me from my reading of symptoms. But also i think there is some overlap, at some of my most enlightened moments i have also felt a bit disassociated, and at my most disassociated times the inner fire has turned on and ive infact felt very associated with my body.

 

Hi friend,

 

You mean the path of enlightenment being very hot. Yes,very true, you are burning karmic fires; purifying the two main culprits:

 

The Heart...the House of Fire, the Emperor

and his main assistant

the Liver, Wood, the General, the Chief Commander of Qi

 

Shen and Hun. An entire book can be written about what these two do and mean. Have you listened to the 6 hour lecture by Giovanni Maciocia about the shen and the hun? They are the spirit and the soul aspects of your divine nature, my dear friend. They both carry the karmic seeds and many lifetimes of wisdom (you gain a little each time) and suffering. But ultimately the Heart is the one that moves on after physical desintegration since this spirit carries the force of the entire organ network.

 

There is also another very informative lecture on Shen by Dr. Li Hua.

 

A very serious enterprise, enligthenment is.

 

It's a path of sacrifice, hard work, tears, renunciation and solitude. Only suited for the very few, those who are near the end and have undergone many lifetimes of mental purification.

 

The utmost respect to anyone who has attained any of the four stages of enligthement.

 

Edited August 6, 2016 by Gerard

[Michael Sternbach]

Enlightened states and certain mental illnesses are the two sides of a coin (just like there is a narrow line separating genius from madness). Psychiatry is a child of the positivism of the nineteenth century and therefore doesn't understand that there are states of depersonalization etc that are sound and meaningful. In practical terms, the distinctive feature is if the person experiencing such a state remains balanced and constructive in their attitude towards self and their environment. And there are mixed states too.

[Bindi]

In early Awakening it can look a bit like depression - yet if a practitioner of the psychologies were to understand the answers to their questions it would be evident that this is not the case.

 

Depression is for the most part Presence jailed by pasts and futures - primarily pasts - in a sort of futility of outlook. It is the futility that makes it look similar to Awakening - because in futility one loses momentum - life is seen as futile - a repetition of idiosyncrasies that cannot be overcome and the mind loops of futility with regard to the general notion that it is insanity to do the same things over and over and over again - with the added cloud of "and why would I want to?"

 

In depression all praise is looked at as contrived and or from automated lifeless petting as one would pet a dog (in this case seen as a lowly creature). In this sense as well the newly Awakened person shares a certainty isolation - but it is not from a futility of interaction - it springs from a non-interaction with the automations and momentums - our positions are gone - we are not "our" positions anymore. We are not our fears anymore - made up of pasts and futures which are illusion once holding us in the trance others call life.

 

Both are in a freefall - one is foreboding - the other is simply hauntingly still.

One has with their freefall an accompaniment of future and past scanerios/ mind loops - all incorrect thinking and all futures set again most pasts.

 

Awakening has stillness and a freefall into a bottomless pit - but it is known to be bottomless - so their is no fear of hitting something - and it is not regarded as a pit - and it is not into something - it is lightness of being. We are completely taken by surprise - though everything is completely familiar and a general OKness pervades everything - nothing we have read has prepared us for such incredible change yet the change is so simple - we simply could not hear it.

 

In Awakening the initial process presents us with a host of "problems" but in an air of "no problem ness" and so like the person in depression we look like someone who only needs to do a very few things but outwardly and inwardly we have no compulsion to "do".

The newly awakened person is also frequently overcome by the desire to just sit and adjust to this incredible new state - sometimes in "bliss" or OKness or quiet - this is a delicate time - one may also still be stuck with a tapping foot wondering when this lack of inertia/momentum will cease and they may loose Presence once again never having realized what had taken place.

 

 

The depressed person has no compulsion because they are in futility and morbid sentimentality.

 

In clinical questioning - a newly Awakened person may seek help but the answers to questions are very different. When asked how they feel they will say "Great" but not motivated. When asked "how are you sleeping?" they say : great. When asked if they are worried they say "No". But for a time their is the similar dissasociation with family, friends but it also includes an dissasociation with ones former positions in politics and many other things - one does not loose them entirely but one is not in them and lost in them.

And again here is when confusion can come back - so called "passion" in ones "convictions" is in general obliterated.

 

A deeply depressed person can lose their passion - but again it is passion lost to futility.

In the newly Awakened it is "passion" lost to a lack of glue holding one to position - the identification is gone.

 

One has no position because position is futile.

The other has no position because they are Presence in the now.

This page describes something very similar to your description of awakening from a psychological perspective, the authors compare their experience which they refer to as ‘loss of the affective ego’ with Depression.

http://www.innerexplorations.com/chmystext/isit.htm

[bax44]

wow that link made so much sense to me. thanks for sharing Bindi.

[CloudHands]

Try reading the DSM4. You (everyone) are going to get hits for all sorts of disorders but don't let it stress you.

 

Bluntly the Key is if you can successfully function in society (which could be argued as a mental disorder in itself!)

 

Or you can see the society as something dysfonctionnel and question perfectly adapted persons 

[silent thunder]

and those who were seen dancing

were thought insane

by those who could not

hear the music

[Bindi]

Nityananda] was a born siddha (“perfected being”), living his entire life in the highest state of consciousness (Muktananda, 1999).

He was an omniscient being; still he appeared as if he didn’t know much....

Only occasionally would he speak; however, you could not understand him (Muktananda, 1996).

 

 [W]hen in his twenties, he would hide behind trees, patiently waiting for a cow to come his way. The moment the animal stood to drop a cowpat, he would rush forward, scoop up the dropping in midair, and then swallow it (Feuerstein, 1992).

 

He would at times be seen in the middle of the road (there was hardly any motor traffic in those days), catching the dropping from a cow before it fell to the ground, putting it on his head, and then whistling just like a railway engine and chugging away, as children often do (Hatengdi, 1984).

 

On another occasion, he besmeared himself from head to toe [i.e., including his lips] with [human] excrement. He sat near the lavatories, with large heaps of excrement piled in front of him. Each time a devotee passed him, he would call out, “Bombay halwa [sweets]—very tasty—want to eat? Can weigh and give you some” (Feuerstein, 1992).

 

http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/muktananda.html

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Bindi

[z00se]

 

haha if that's enlightenment who would want it

[z00se]

The available energy increases exponentially - it is sustained in both daily life and in an available shift on any number of levels.

The "shift" takes no more than mere thought or a slight movement of presence to it. At the same time one settles into a great stillness of being and so while available and constant energies have radically increased, automated reactionary momentums are nearly completely gone.

Heaviness is increasingly gone from the body. Light transmits through this far more easily. This light for the most part is not from the physical body - it is not a burning of resources.

When you say available energy i wish somebody said that years ago, then i would have understood. I have over the last year began taking this approach and starting to understand what you are saying. However at the deepest point, its like the reservoirs of energy are full and suddenly i become very energetic, however get put of this deepest point and back into the depressed state. I have to say it is very physically healing but i don't find it enjoyable.

 

 

I have always practiced the opposite, where i cultivate energy in action, not potential energy as i understand you discuss it, and as i have been acquainting it with myself the past year. In the kinetic energy cultivation as i practice it, at the highest point there is the calm that you speak of, however when not at the peak there is lots of work to be done to improve. It is compelling to work, unlike the cultivation of potential energy where there i feel compelled to not do.

[z00se]

At least in Awakening / a sustained Awakened state and further into Enlightening, it is not at all a draining state. Quite the opposite.

Energy is not lost to pasts and futures. The general physical energy is much greater 7/24 and the amount of intense stillness increases.

For many unawakened people the notion that it takes tremendous energy and it's unsustainable is because for many the highest states are reached by trance states - and frequently high vibration trance states that are regarded as necessary to reach those states - which in some cases is correct. The high vibration trance states are indeed unsustainable and draining and if over-sustained dangerous to the body.

Much of this drain and fear is do to the incorrect notion that our highest space requires all our chakras to be fully open - an extremely naive and incorrect view of the mechanics of it and the overall intake of waaaayyyy to much incorrect or improperly ingested information.

But it is a pile of fun - until it's not

Haha i always have the feeling that you feel your path is the correct way and you feel others have more to learn if they don't take a similar approach to you. You are obviously well practiced in your path, however you should try looking at it from a different angle. You may learn something from others.

 

 

It could be said too much of a relaxed of withdrawn path could also be bad for ones health, by increasing weight gain, losing the fire of desire and generally lacking enough fire element as in TCM for somebody who didn't do it properly.

 

 

There is danger to a fire or a water path, they are polar opposites, there must be equal danger.

Edited August 17, 2016 by z00se

[z00se]

Its interesting because what many describe as lightness i refer to as sluggishness. Light to change direction, but no weight to feel ones self really moving. Lighter yet slower, heavier yet more momentum. That momentum can be deflected or the direction changed slightly without using that momentum.

 

I get lighter means you can change direction faster, but if one were only floating along to begin with what is the point? Cultivation potential energy... in one way i feel lighter and feel i have a greater potential to do anything, but also heavier in the fact that I feel more reluctant to move, the more potential i have to do anything, the more content i feel doing nothing.

 

With momentum one only needs to learn timing within the environment to have real power and boost their destiny to the stars. I guess its just different personalities. Some like to be a bit of everything, while others like all of something....in the end they both end up being one and the same.

Edited August 17, 2016 by z00se

[Wells]

.

Edited August 30, 2016 by spacester